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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by linkadge on October 23, 2005, at 12:55:06
Tell me how this makes sence.
http://www.usc.edu/uscnews/stories/10512.html
Linkadge
Posted by iforgotmypassword on October 23, 2005, at 15:05:32
In reply to MAO mice/man/anxiety/agression, posted by linkadge on October 23, 2005, at 12:55:06
they said this about some guys who had a genetic mao defeciency, that they were aggressive and fearless. i think they were from sweeden or somewhere in northern europe. i don't know how true it was... at least the conclusion they were drawing, but who knows.
Posted by djmmm on October 23, 2005, at 16:35:13
In reply to MAO mice/man/anxiety/agression, posted by linkadge on October 23, 2005, at 12:55:06
> Tell me how this makes sence.
>
> http://www.usc.edu/uscnews/stories/10512.html
>
>
> LinkadgeI think if anything, this study may show that certain individuals (who suffer from depression, anxiety, etc) may have an overabundance of the MAO enzyme.
Could this be an alternative to the monoamine theory? What if MAO was the key to mood disorders, not serotonin?
Posted by linkadge on October 23, 2005, at 17:24:30
In reply to Re: MAO mice/man/anxiety/agression, posted by djmmm on October 23, 2005, at 16:35:13
But thats the thing, the study involves mice who don't have MAO. It says that these mice are more anxious, less body weight, more agressive etc.
Linkadge
Posted by jay on October 23, 2005, at 19:05:39
In reply to Re: MAO mice/man/anxiety/agression, posted by linkadge on October 23, 2005, at 17:24:30
> But thats the thing, the study involves mice who don't have MAO. It says that these mice are more anxious, less body weight, more agressive etc.
>
> LinkadgeYes, I think this can be explained. It's all about the up and down regulation of the pathways and receptors. At the start (which also happens to be the period drug companies are saying people may have suicidal ideation), the amines just flourish in the brain. Less maoi, more amines which over time (like how every other antidepressant works) regulates the receptors.(And hence, the lessening of suicidal ideation.) I see it like this...it's like you are 'toning' your brain, like a muscle. The receptor number may be regulated...maybe there where too many or too few. Throw in some meds that 'tone' the serotonin (like serzone, remeron, etc..) system, and ones that do the same for the dopamine system (like zyprexa, or even high dose buspar, or abilify)I think we have the potential to do SO MUCH better with meds. That is why I feel many people have success on 6 or 7 meds that all do this or block that. Doctors are just too scared to go that high with meds. Luckily, mine isn't, and no by far am I 'cured', but I am leading a life 80-90 percent more stable than just a few years ago.(Knock on wood..lol :-)
Anyhow...thats just my take..fwiw..
Jay
Posted by linkadge on October 23, 2005, at 20:43:50
In reply to Re: MAO mice/man/anxiety/agression**(trigger) » linkadge, posted by jay on October 23, 2005, at 19:05:39
But these mice didn't just spontaniously wake up with no MAO. They were born with no MAO and live their whole lives MAO deficiant.
I would expect these mice to be super serene, and calm like they were born on nardil, but instead they are super agressive and anxious. I don't know what gives.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on October 23, 2005, at 20:44:43
In reply to Re: MAO mice/man/anxiety/agression**(trigger), posted by linkadge on October 23, 2005, at 20:43:50
I mean, we are using MAO inhibitors to treat the very symptoms that MAO deficiant mice seem to display !
Linkadge
Posted by willyee on October 24, 2005, at 1:06:30
In reply to Re: MAO mice/man/anxiety/agression**(trigger), posted by linkadge on October 23, 2005, at 20:44:43
> I mean, we are using MAO inhibitors to treat the very symptoms that MAO deficiant mice seem to display !
>
> Linkadge
Just the paranoia in me,but think we might start seeing information like this as the MAOI patch nears,perhaps some scare tactics ??Again just a thought,i mean tryptophan if i remember correctly was banned right around prozacs introduction.
Posted by SLS on October 24, 2005, at 5:42:04
In reply to MAO mice/man/anxiety/agression, posted by linkadge on October 23, 2005, at 12:55:06
If one is born without MAO, they might develop a nervous system regulated using the other feedback loops available:
• reduced synthesis of amines
• reduced release of amines
• reduced storage of amines
• increased catabolism by COMT
• reduced postsynaptic receptor sensitivity
• increased presynaptic sensitivity
• increased numbers of GABA inhibitory
• increased numbers of glycine inhibitory
• modulation by varying peptide numbers
• modulation of second messengers and G-proteinsIt makes sense that a viable equilibrium can be established during rest periods and without stimulation. However, external stimulation might create an abnormally larger burst of excitation because the remaining regulatory mechanisms cannot keep up with the momentary outflow of presynaptic neurotransmitter.
Just a guess.
- Scott
Posted by linkadge on October 24, 2005, at 15:43:26
In reply to Re: MAO mice/man/anxiety/agression » linkadge, posted by SLS on October 24, 2005, at 5:42:04
I don't know. MAO knockout mice have been used extensively to study the actions of MAOI's in man.
MAO knockout mice also display similar biochemical alterations to those treated with MAO inhibitors, namely higher serotonin norepinephrine dopamine, and PEA.
Linkadge
Posted by SLS on October 24, 2005, at 18:49:18
In reply to Re: MAO mice/man/anxiety/agression, posted by linkadge on October 24, 2005, at 15:43:26
> I don't know. MAO knockout mice have been used extensively to study the actions of MAOI's in man.
>
> MAO knockout mice also display similar biochemical alterations to those treated with MAO inhibitors, namely higher serotonin norepinephrine dopamine, and PEA.Do you recall how these levels were assayed? Did they simply grind up the brain?
- Scott
Posted by linkadge on October 25, 2005, at 10:55:39
In reply to Re: MAO mice/man/anxiety/agression » linkadge, posted by SLS on October 24, 2005, at 18:49:18
I don't know exactly.
Probably the same techniques and models used to initially determine that any antidepressant affects a neurotransmitter.
http://biopsychiatry.com/mao.html
Linkadge
Posted by Chairman_MAO on October 25, 2005, at 20:04:02
In reply to MAO mice/man/anxiety/agression, posted by linkadge on October 23, 2005, at 12:55:06
80% MAO inhibition by a drug and ZERO MAO in the organism are two radically different situations.
Beyond that, I cannot offer in good faith a techniacl explanation--at least not in the state of mind im in right now
This is the end of the thread.
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