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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 7 of 7. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by fires on September 8, 2005, at 13:02:45
Since I was recently dxed with BP (hypomania) I've been fascinated with the "thyroid connection". Especially since my mother and grandmother had thyroid problems.
My question: What exactly is meant by late onset in the below? Anything later than "the usual" onset?
(I'm 51 years young)Thanks
Posted by Flame on September 8, 2005, at 16:37:23
In reply to BP thyroid (again), posted by fires on September 8, 2005, at 13:02:45
Hi Fires,
I am brand new to this forum and by no means an expert on anything to do with THIS forum. But .. I was diagnosed with Graves disease (hyperthyroid) several years ago and have done a lot of reading of books and am active on several BB's in regards to thyroid diseases. I have just recently (past year) flipped over to being hypO and have been very, VERY depressed. I am NOW on thyroid meds and that is gradually getting better.What I have learned in these past five years though .. is that any kind of a thyroid condition can intefere with your mental/emotional health at ANY age. Also .. thyroid conditions are very hereditary. Defintely worth looking into!
Good luck .. Take care, ~Flame~
"Since I was recently dxed with BP (hypomania) I've been fascinated with the "thyroid connection". Especially since my mother and grandmother had thyroid problems."
My question: What exactly is meant by late onset in the below? Anything later than "the usual" onset? (I'm 51 years young)"
Posted by fires on September 8, 2005, at 17:37:52
In reply to Re: BP thyroid (again), posted by Flame on September 8, 2005, at 16:37:23
> Hi Fires,
> I am brand new to this forum and by no means an expert on anything to do with THIS forum. But .. I was diagnosed with Graves disease (hyperthyroid) several years ago and have done a lot of reading of books and am active on several BB's in regards to thyroid diseases. I have just recently (past year) flipped over to being hypO and have been very, VERY depressed. I am NOW on thyroid meds and that is gradually getting better.
>
> What I have learned in these past five years though .. is that any kind of a thyroid condition can intefere with your mental/emotional health at ANY age. Also .. thyroid conditions are very hereditary. Defintely worth looking into!
>
> Good luck .. Take care, ~Flame~
>
> "Since I was recently dxed with BP (hypomania) I've been fascinated with the "thyroid connection". Especially since my mother and grandmother had thyroid problems."
>
> My question: What exactly is meant by late onset in the below? Anything later than "the usual" onset? (I'm 51 years young)"
>
Thanks, I plan to ask one doc to give me the lab order tomorrow, then ask my other doc, on Monday, for the results.I'm curious about you now being hypo. Did the treatment for Grave's cause it?
Also, years ago I spent a lot of time going to an endocrinologist for Hashimoto's Thyroiditis, but ended up not getting any better, and the dx was dropped (my levels were OK as were the antibodies, but he gave me Synthroid anyway).
I have many symptoms of hyperthyroidism, yet I'm not excessively moist or sweaty, even when I get too hot (if anything my skin is too dry). Do you know if this is possible with hyperT?
I've read that thyroid hormone is sometimes used for mood stabilization even if the patient's blood tests are entirely normal. One pdoc wrote that he has quite a few treatment resistant BPs who are *much, much* better on thyroid.
I'm glad you came to this forum. Just beware, if you haven't noticed, that there's an understandably huge bias here towards negative medication experiences. (especially Effexor!!).;-)
Posted by Flame on September 9, 2005, at 7:45:54
In reply to Re: BP thyroid (again) » Flame, posted by fires on September 8, 2005, at 17:37:52
Good Morning Fires!
"I'm curious about you now being hypo. Did the treatment for Grave's cause it?"
Once diagnosed with Graves disease, most people choose to go with the RAI treatment (destroy the thyroid) at the urging of their dr. I had heard too many horror stories about how people did after the RAI and chose not to go that route. (Much to my endo drs. distress!) I did go on PTU, which suppresses the thyroid. Once my "numbers" got back to normal .. which was quite quickly... I slowly weaned myself off that PTU. For sometime I was feeling quite well .. doing "nothing" in particular for my thyroid. But, since then I have turned hypO. My reading and talking to other thyroid patients has taught me that this can and DOES happen to Graves patients. (Although the drs. don't tell you that part ..)
"Also, years ago I spent a lot of time going to an endocrinologist for Hashimoto's Thyroiditis, but ended up not getting any better, and the dx was dropped (my levels were OK as were the antibodies, but he gave me Synthroid anyway)."
Hashimoto's is what I call the "other side" of Graves. They are both autoimmune diseases, but Graves is (generally) hyper and Hashi's is (generally) hypO. I'm assuming that with Hashi's you can also get hypEr? (Is that what your possibly experiencing?) I'm surprised that you said that your antibodies were "okay" .. as I thought that once you have the autoimmune disease .. those antibodies are always there .. ? I really need to "educate" myself more in the antibody area and how all of that is affected. As far as not getting any better .. my feeling about how drs. are treating thyroid problems nowadays .. is most often that they are NOT correct. When you get your tests results back next week, make sure you scrutinize those well. Drs. will generally tell you that you are "normal" when you are in fact "low-normal" hypO (and feeling just awful.) Make sure your doc orders for you the FT3, FT4 AND TSH. The FT3 & FT4 results should both be in the upper ends of the ranges your lab gives you .. to be feeling your best. Even if your "numbers" fall in the "low normal" range you can still be feeling awful. Thyroid patients are finally realizing that they need to try to get their numbers in the upper quarter of what their labs/Drs. consider "normal". As far as Synthroid .. I have "heard" .. not the greatest responses on it. I talked to a lot of people w/success stories, before I started on Armour. The change in my outlook, energy levels, etc. have been phenomonal! (So, of course .. at this point I have only good to say about Armour! ;-) )"I have many symptoms of hyperthyroidism, yet I'm not excessively moist or sweaty, even when I get too hot (if anything my skin is too dry). Do you know if this is possible with hyperT?"
What are your other symptoms that are "hypEr? Dry skin .. I thought was an indication of being hypO ... ?? Really anything is possible, I guess, when you have thyroid problems. Your particular thyroid problems don't necessarily have to fit the general symptom catgories.
"I've read that thyroid hormone is sometimes used for mood stabilization even if the patient's blood tests are entirely normal. One pdoc wrote that he has quite a few treatment resistant BPs who are *much, much* better on thyroid."
Yes, I guess I have heard/read this also. But .. I think that what a lot of doc's are finally "discovering" (just like your article said on your first post in this thread) is that before prescribing those antidepressants, etc.. they should do a full thyroid work up, to rule THAT out. Thyroid disease diagnosis' has become more and more common in recent years .. Our lifestyles are finally catching up to us! (??)
Well, I hope I've given you at least a little bit to "chew on" in regards to your situation.
Good Luck!
~Flame~
Posted by fires on September 9, 2005, at 18:52:50
In reply to Re: BP thyroid (again), posted by Flame on September 9, 2005, at 7:45:54
"Once my "numbers" got back to normal .. which was quite quickly... I slowly weaned myself off that PTU. For sometime I was feeling quite well .. doing "nothing" in particular for my thyroid. But, since then I have turned hypO. My reading and talking to other thyroid patients has taught me that this can and DOES happen to Graves patients. (Although the drs. don't tell you that part ..)"
What causes it to happen? (hypo with Grave's)
" Hashimoto's is what I call the "other side" of Graves. They are both autoimmune diseases, but Graves is (generally) hyper and Hashi's is (generally) hypO. I'm assuming that with Hashi's you can also get hypEr? (Is that what your possibly experiencing?)"
Years ago some docs told me that during some stages of Hashimoto's one can swing from hyper to normal to hypo then back and forth...
The endo. I saw usually treated Hashimoto's by doing a total thyroidectomy. The reasoning: antibodies wouldn't have anything else to attack and thyroid replacement therapy was found to work fine.
In fact he used only Synthroid or other synthetic T hormones -- he said that dessicated thyroid could provoke one's immune system to continue producing antibodies.
" As far as not getting any better .. my feeling about how drs. are treating thyroid problems nowadays .. is most often that they are NOT correct."The endo. I saw intentionally made me slightly hyperT by having me take a little more Synthroid then I needed. He was affiliated with UCSF, so I trusted him. It didn't harm me, but it didn't help either.
" When you get your tests results back next week, make sure you scrutinize those well. Drs. will generally tell you that you are "normal" when you are in fact "low-normal" hypO (and feeling just awful.) Make sure your doc orders for you the FT3, FT4 AND TSH. The FT3 & FT4 results should both be in the upper ends of the ranges your lab gives you .. to be feeling your best. Even if your "numbers" fall in the "low normal" range you can still be feeling awful. Thyroid patients are finally realizing that they need to try to get their numbers in the upper quarter of what their labs/Drs. consider "normal". As far as Synthroid .. I have "heard" .. not the greatest responses on it. I talked to a lot of people w/success stories, before I started on Armour. The change in my outlook, energy levels, etc. have been phenomonal! (So, of course .. at this point I have only good to say about Armour! ;-) )
I had my blood draw earlier today. FT3, FT4, and TSH. I asked for the antibody test but my psych. said to wait on it.
According to a lab sheet I have, FT4 includes T4 total and T4 uptake. Same for T3. Results should be in my neuros hands when I see him on Monday. I wouldn't be surprised by any of the possible results (hyper, hypo, or normal).
> What are your other symptoms that are "hypEr? Dry skin .. I thought was an indication of being hypO ... ?? Really anything is possible, I guess, when you have thyroid problems. Your particular thyroid problems don't necessarily have to fit the general symptom catgories."Other possible hyper symptoms:
Hot face and neck from time to time. Osteoporosis.
Weight loss -- could be due to decreased appetite from taking Wellbutrin. Also, my upper legs hurt at times.
Also, I feel like my muscle mass is decreasing -- not just losing fat?
> "I've read that thyroid hormone is sometimes used for mood stabilization even if the patient's blood tests are entirely normal. One pdoc wrote that he has quite a few treatment resistant BPs who are *much, much* better on thyroid."
>
> Yes, I guess I have heard/read this also. But .. I think that what a lot of doc's are finally "discovering" (just like your article said on your first post in this thread) is that before prescribing those antidepressants, etc.. they should do a full thyroid work up, to rule THAT out. Thyroid disease diagnosis' has become more and more common in recent years .. Our lifestyles are finally catching up to us! (??)I had the thyroid blood tests about a year or 2 ago, but everything is different now.
>
> Well, I hope I've given you at least a little bit to "chew on" in regards to your situation.
>
> Good Luck!
> ~Flame~
Thanks!
Posted by flame on September 10, 2005, at 18:59:16
In reply to Re: BP thyroid (again) » Flame, posted by fires on September 9, 2005, at 18:52:50
"What causes it to happen? (hypo with Grave's)"
Many times the Graves patient can go into "remission" and then become hypO. I have "talked" to several people that have had this happen .. and then of course myself ...
"Years ago some docs told me that during some stages of Hashimoto's one can swing from hyper to normal to hypo then back and forth..."
Sounds much the same as Graves...
"The endo. I saw usually treated Hashimoto's by doing a total thyroidectomy. The reasoning: antibodies wouldn't have anything else to attack and thyroid replacement therapy was found to work fine."
Is this what YOU had done .. a thyroidectomy? He didn't feel your Hashi's could be controlled by medication? I think this sounds pretty drastic .. but then I know (of course) that I don't have all of the details.
"In fact he used only Synthroid or other synthetic T hormones -- he said that dessicated thyroid could provoke one's immune system to continue producing antibodies."
All I can say about this is please do your own homework. I have NEVER heard or read this. I know many people that are doing so absolutely wonderful on the dessicated thyroid!(??) Read up on it .. you might be pleasantly surprised .. as it might help you! Although, you might have to go to a different doc to get the dessicated thyroid prescription ..
My Best To You! ~Flame~
Posted by fires on September 10, 2005, at 21:38:28
In reply to Re: BP thyroid (again) » fires, posted by flame on September 10, 2005, at 18:59:16
> Is this what YOU had done .. a thyroidectomy? He didn't feel your Hashi's could be controlled by medication? I think this sounds pretty drastic .. but then I know (of course) that I don't have all of the details. <
No, I didn't have a thyroidectomy, but my endos theory in the 80's was: if you treat Hashimoto's with only thyroid, the inflammatory autoimmune process wil continue unabated.
"In fact he used only Synthroid or other synthetic T hormones -- he said that dessicated thyroid could provoke one's immune system to continue producing antibodies."> All I can say about this is please do your own homework. I have NEVER heard or read this. I know many people that are doing so absolutely wonderful on the dessicated thyroid!(??) Read up on it .. you might be pleasantly surprised .. as it might help you! Although, you might have to go to a different doc to get the dessicated thyroid prescription .. <
Here's some info. on the "natural" vs syntheic hormone issue,although it doesn't specifically mention thyroid hormone. Be sure to read the part about Premarin.
http://www.herplace.com/hormone-info/natural-vs-synthetic.htm
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