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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by portage on June 19, 2005, at 22:06:51
Those of you who suffer from anxiety disorders...
Do you ever have trouble coping with the concept of reality, of space and time?
I do at times... My" panic attacks" (doctor's current diagnosis) involve intense dissosication and distortion of all of my senses. Hot flashes. Paranoia. The feeling that "time" is moving sideways, backwards, staggering.More frequently, I also have been having thoughts regarding the nature of reality. Scary thoughts, about all that can't be controlled, and about how much of perception is an illusion. About the nature of mental illness. IS it mental illness.
When I become anxious ...time can move slow, space can bend ...Is this my "pathology"? Is it a FALSE take on reality?- I wonder, or are we all just happily ignorant to the fluidity of reality because of the biology of our brain? or am i crazy?
Sometimes I feel a bit psychic, like I know an event will occur immediatly before it does...
To be sure- I'm very cynical when it comes to supernatural phenomena and I'm not in the least superstitious, but these thoughts are becoming bore invasive and more persuasive.
Sometimes these awful thoughts repeat, and sometimes I find myself doing repetative things, repeating words. I worry I'm getting a glimpse of the beginnings of OCD.I'm afraid that I soon may become paranoid, that my anxiety is causing my grasp on reality to break. and i'm afraid of a complete breakdown.
When I'm anxious, Sometimes The ground looks too far away. Sometimes I forget my own limbs, they dont feel like mine. I dissociate. Up until a week ago my panic attacks where out of the blue.
But NOW, for the past week, I have been preoccupied with thoughts of attacks and questions of my perceptions- and they seem to trigger the attacks now. I'm becomeing paranoid that I'm hearing things (even though I don't think I ever have). I say to people "did you just hear that?" alllll the time. When I see something strange I worry that I'm hallucinating (even though I really havent done that either). Strange or unusual sensations make me scared- like today I took a bath, I usually take showers, and taking the bath I feaked out because of how weird the water felt on my skin. its soo creepy.
Am I totally alone here? Maybe I'm becoming delusional- trying to convince myself I'm crazy, as crazy as THAT is. I just dont know... Maybe this is something of a delusion- because I dont think my panic attacks warrent such a preocupation with worry of insanity.To be sure- the symptoms ARE REAL, but the worry about more symptoms is just too much. HYPOCHONDRIA seems most likely. I KNOW they are panic attacks. But I can't control my worries that its something terribly worse.
I dont know..anyone with anxiety have any simmilar problems??
Posted by 4WD on June 20, 2005, at 0:56:20
In reply to space, time, reality, fear, panic..., posted by portage on June 19, 2005, at 22:06:51
> Those of you who suffer from anxiety disorders...
>
> Do you ever have trouble coping with the concept of reality, of space and time?
> I do at times... My" panic attacks" (doctor's current diagnosis) involve intense dissosication and distortion of all of my senses. Hot flashes. Paranoia. The feeling that "time" is moving sideways, backwards, staggering.
>
> More frequently, I also have been having thoughts regarding the nature of reality. Scary thoughts, about all that can't be controlled, and about how much of perception is an illusion. About the nature of mental illness. IS it mental illness.
>
> When I become anxious ...time can move slow, space can bend ...Is this my "pathology"? Is it a FALSE take on reality?- I wonder, or are we all just happily ignorant to the fluidity of reality because of the biology of our brain? or am i crazy?
> Sometimes I feel a bit psychic, like I know an event will occur immediatly before it does...
> To be sure- I'm very cynical when it comes to supernatural phenomena and I'm not in the least superstitious, but these thoughts are becoming bore invasive and more persuasive.
> Sometimes these awful thoughts repeat, and sometimes I find myself doing repetative things, repeating words. I worry I'm getting a glimpse of the beginnings of OCD.
>
> I'm afraid that I soon may become paranoid, that my anxiety is causing my grasp on reality to break. and i'm afraid of a complete breakdown.
> When I'm anxious, Sometimes The ground looks too far away. Sometimes I forget my own limbs, they dont feel like mine. I dissociate. Up until a week ago my panic attacks where out of the blue.
> But NOW, for the past week, I have been preoccupied with thoughts of attacks and questions of my perceptions- and they seem to trigger the attacks now. I'm becomeing paranoid that I'm hearing things (even though I don't think I ever have). I say to people "did you just hear that?" alllll the time. When I see something strange I worry that I'm hallucinating (even though I really havent done that either). Strange or unusual sensations make me scared- like today I took a bath, I usually take showers, and taking the bath I feaked out because of how weird the water felt on my skin. its soo creepy.
> Am I totally alone here? Maybe I'm becoming delusional- trying to convince myself I'm crazy, as crazy as THAT is. I just dont know... Maybe this is something of a delusion- because I dont think my panic attacks warrent such a preocupation with worry of insanity.To be sure- the symptoms ARE REAL, but the worry about more symptoms is just too much. HYPOCHONDRIA seems most likely. I KNOW they are panic attacks. But I can't control my worries that its something terribly worse.
> I dont know..anyone with anxiety have any simmilar problems??
In short, yes. Sometimes when I am intensely anxious I feel like I might be "going crazy." I feel detached from the world. I get the hot flash thing and this wave of shame and guilt will come over me. I think I might be about to lose my mind. And the fear that I will "snap" just makes the original fear much worse.If I find myself in a strange situation, for example, someone is saying something that doesn't make sense but other people around me are acting like everything is okay, I start to think maybe I'm crazy. Maybe it does make sense but I'm just weird. Sometimes it's a feeling like I'm detaching and can't feel the world. Other times it's like I feel it all too much. There can be intense terror. Crawling on the floor, screaming at the ceiling for it to please stop terror.
For me, though, this wasn't "attacks." It would be constant. For hours. Whole days. I didn't want to take my Klonopin for fear of dependency and because I had just started going to Narcotics Anonymous meetings to deal with my earlier occasional abuse of pain meds and they had told me I shouldn't take any mood altering drug. So I tried to just stand it. When I reached the point of packing for the psych ward, I decided to take the klonopin.
On an appropriate dose of Klonopin, these feelings disappeared. I no longer am terrified. I still have the detached feeling sometimes, mostly when I am around a lot of other people or am in an unfamiliar situation.
What meds are you on? Are you on an antianxiety med? This feeling of terror was worse for me when I tried adding nortriptyline in an attempt to help it. I believe it is possible this happened to me as a result of Effexor withdrawal. I've now been off Effexor for three months and the terror is gone. It's now mostly just nervous jitteryness and some fear. Some days it feels like the terror might come back and then I take a little more Klonopin. Other days I can get by with .25 or even .125
Have you recently started or stopped any med? Do your anxiety meds (if you take them) help these feelings? What does your pdoc say?
It doesn't sound to me as if you are going crazy. It sounds as if your anxiety is at a level so high it is intolerable. I never knew before this happened to me that anxiety could be so intense and so terrifying.
Anxiety at that level can resemble psychosis.
Please post again and let us know what meds you are on. What is your diagnosis?
You are not alone.
Marsha
Posted by portage on June 20, 2005, at 1:25:03
In reply to Re: space, time, reality, fear, panic... » portage, posted by 4WD on June 20, 2005, at 0:56:20
Hi Marsha.
My diagnosis is panic disorder, and I'm in remission from major depression, and i'm "unofficially" bipolar(my diagnosis was changed from bipolar disorder to major depression and panic disorder)
My meds are:alprazolam, .25 mg (lately i am taking up to 6 pills a day)
zoloft, i think its 25 mg
wellbutrin xl, 150 mg
seroquel, 25 mg at night, to fall asleep.The alprazolam stops the anxiety, and i LOVE the alprazolam for that, but no matter how sedated i am from it, a panic attack can still happen out of no where. once a panic attack starts, it can't be stopped no matter how many pills i take.
thanks for the kind words.
you said
>"If I find myself in a strange situation, for example, someone is saying something that doesn't make sense but other people around me are acting like everything is okay, I start to think maybe I'm crazy."
thats been happening to me lately.
God, what you describe sounds so awful, what is your diagnosis?
take care of yourself
poertage
Posted by linkadge on June 20, 2005, at 6:38:41
In reply to Re: space, time, reality, fear, panic... » 4WD, posted by portage on June 20, 2005, at 1:25:03
These symptoms definately seem to stem from irratic temporal lobe activity.
I have had the strangest experiences with time disortion.space/time preception are controlled in the temporal lobes. I would think about perhaps reducing the wellbutrin. This one is very temporal lobe active and may be exasparating the panic attacks. Perhaps look at the addition of a low dose anticonvusant ??
Just some ideas.
Linkadge
Posted by Jazzed on June 20, 2005, at 7:57:46
In reply to Re: space, time, reality, fear, panic... » 4WD, posted by portage on June 20, 2005, at 1:25:03
> Hi Marsha.
> My diagnosis is panic disorder, and I'm in remission from major depression, and i'm "unofficially" bipolar(my diagnosis was changed from bipolar disorder to major depression and panic disorder)
> My meds are:
>
> alprazolam, .25 mg (lately i am taking up to 6 pills a day)
> zoloft, i think its 25 mg
> wellbutrin xl, 150 mg
> seroquel, 25 mg at night, to fall asleep.
>
> The alprazolam stops the anxiety, and i LOVE the alprazolam for that, but no matter how sedated i am from it, a panic attack can still happen out of no where. once a panic attack starts, it can't be stopped no matter how many pills i take.
>
> thanks for the kind words.
>
> you said
> >"If I find myself in a strange situation, for example, someone is saying something that doesn't make sense but other people around me are acting like everything is okay, I start to think maybe I'm crazy."
> thats been happening to me lately.
> God, what you describe sounds so awful, what is your diagnosis?
> take care of yourself
> poertageHey Portage,
I'm sorry you're going through this, I know how unsettling it is. I used to have this, and from time to time when something really disturbing happens, I get it again. If you can practice grounding techniques of some type it might help. I used to not trust my senses, and I had to learn to trust them, which is what ultimately helped me. Other than that, I'm not sure what to tell you. Are you in therapy? Sounds like some good techniques could come from a really good CBT counselor.
Jazzy
Posted by 4WD on June 20, 2005, at 21:00:30
In reply to Re: space, time, reality, fear, panic... » 4WD, posted by portage on June 20, 2005, at 1:25:03
> Hi Marsha.
> My diagnosis is panic disorder, and I'm in remission from major depression, and i'm "unofficially" bipolar(my diagnosis was changed from bipolar disorder to major depression and panic disorder)
> My meds are:
>
> alprazolam, .25 mg (lately i am taking up to 6 pills a day)
> zoloft, i think its 25 mg
> wellbutrin xl, 150 mg
> seroquel, 25 mg at night, to fall asleep.
>
> The alprazolam stops the anxiety, and i LOVE the alprazolam for that, but no matter how sedated i am from it, a panic attack can still happen out of no where. once a panic attack starts, it can't be stopped no matter how many pills i take.
>
> thanks for the kind words.
>
> you said
> >"If I find myself in a strange situation, for example, someone is saying something that doesn't make sense but other people around me are acting like everything is okay, I start to think maybe I'm crazy."
> thats been happening to me lately.
> God, what you describe sounds so awful, what is your diagnosis?
> take care of yourself
> poertage
Hi Portage,I think a lot of people here take Klonopin for panic instead of Xanax just because the Klonopin seems more to ward off panic where the Xanax is more to treat it once it happens. I take mine as soon as I get up in the morning but I often still have a couple uncomfortable hours before it kicks in. ALso, for me Wellbutrin was not a good drug. It increased my anxiety. Effexor really treated it well, but I'd have a hard time recommending it to anyone because before I took it I only had garden variety GAD and after coming off it, I've had the actual terror thing going on.
My diagnosis is major depressive disorder with anxiety disorder. I take Celexa for the depression (it lets me be more or less functional but I'm still depressed). And of course, Klonopin for anxiety.
I think it's important to be in therapy, at least for me. My therapist had never seen me "normal" and I almost got diagnosed with borderline personality disorder because my anxiety was so intense, I was acting really weird. Having crying fits in her office, ending up on the bathroom floor at my pdocs office, crying in the dark. Just terrified. ANd couldn't control it at all. I know they thought I was crazy. But once the anxiety backed off a bit, the weird behavior stopped. I was truly suicidal from the fear. I do know first hand that anxiety, once it reaches a certain level, can make a person behave in ways that appear (even to ourselves) as crazy.
Maybe you should think about switching to a different AD. I was on Zoloft for a few weeks and I remember having a lot of morning anxiety on it. Also on Prozac and Paxil. But of course everyone is different and what is anxiety provoking in one person is calming in another.
I hope it at least helps to know that someone knows what you are going through and offers her deepest empathy and sympathy. Part of what was so bad was that I felt like no one had a clue what it felt like to be so scared and that being that scared over nothing was a pathological state and I would have to live like that forever. But mine *has* slowly gotten better. And I read in the Merck Manual that a large percentage of people with panic disorder eventually recover *even without treatment* so there is hope.
How long has this been going on? Did it start up out of nowhere or did you have anxiety before? And how long have you been on your current meds? Any recent changes?
And, again, you're not crazy.
Marsha
Posted by portage on June 21, 2005, at 0:08:10
In reply to Re: space, time, reality, fear, panic..., posted by linkadge on June 20, 2005, at 6:38:41
> These symptoms definately seem to stem from irratic temporal lobe activity.
>
>
> I have had the strangest experiences with time disortion.
>
> space/time preception are controlled in the temporal lobes. I would think about perhaps reducing the wellbutrin. This one is very temporal lobe active and may be exasparating the panic attacks. Perhaps look at the addition of a low dose anticonvusant ??
>
> Just some ideas.
>
>> Linkadge
>
really? good, good ideas.
a panic response to seizure activity seems to make sense. wellbutrin works so well for my depression, but 'm going to try something else. right awaydo you know anything about how seroquel affects seizure threshold?
Posted by linkadge on June 21, 2005, at 6:35:49
In reply to Re: space, time, reality, fear, panic... » linkadge, posted by portage on June 21, 2005, at 0:08:10
Seroquel is a good choice, I have heard that it is fairly neutral in this sence. Zyprexa can be proconvusant though.
The SSRI's are not too bad in this regard.
Linkadge
Posted by Spriggy on June 22, 2005, at 15:37:34
In reply to Re: space, time, reality, fear, panic..., posted by linkadge on June 21, 2005, at 6:35:49
I can relate to everything you experience. I am beginning to realize these "perceptions" are simly a manifestation of anxiety. I just try my best to tell myself over and over again that "this is just anxiety creating these feelings and distortions."Sometimes that helps, other times it doesn't help. I am just trying to learn to live with this.
I get depersonalization pretty badly when I'm under a lot of stress; I feel like i"m not connected to my body, my self, the world. Things seem so strange. I begin to feel like I'm disappearing or as if I'm in a dream and none of this is real.
I then start questioning all sorts of things; life, death, etc..
Thankfully my faith in the Lord helps me through this but I know how terrifying and uncomfortable it is.
I'm dealing with this now as a matter of fact!
I usually try to do something physical like get on the treadmill or do some sort of physical activity just to "FEEL" my body. If that makes any sense.
I would second the thing about wellbutrin. It increased my anxiety BIG time.
I hope you feel better soon but just know you aren't alone.
This is the end of the thread.
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