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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Enigma on June 10, 2005, at 8:42:34
I start MAOI's tomorrow for the first time (for severe depression) and was wondering if anyone suggests starting with Parnate or Nardil first?
I heard one of them had an energizing effect. Which one was that?
Quick response needed. Doctor appt. later today.
Thanks.
Posted by BIGDaddyachmed69 on June 10, 2005, at 9:30:35
In reply to Nardil or Parnate?, posted by Enigma on June 10, 2005, at 8:42:34
> I start MAOI's tomorrow for the first time (for severe depression) and was wondering if anyone suggests starting with Parnate or Nardil first?
>
> I heard one of them had an energizing effect. Which one was that?
>
> Quick response needed. Doctor appt. later today.
> Thanks.
>
>My doctor suggested I try Nardil first if anxiety was primarily the issue. On the other hand, he recommended Parnate for depression. As far as I know, Parnate's the MAOI with the energizing profile.
Posted by superman on June 10, 2005, at 10:49:22
In reply to Nardil or Parnate?, posted by Enigma on June 10, 2005, at 8:42:34
Indeed parnate is the one with the stimulating energizing effect. If you are like I was, depression with complete fatigue and zero motivation, I'll vouch for its effectiveness there.
I started parnate only 3.5 weeks ago its working great for me. I've had zero side-effects for the most part, except for some sleep changes due to its stimulating effect.
Nardil on the other hand is probably more useful for those that have panic type anxiety problems. Like parnate, there seem to be many people in here that have had great results on this med too. Weight gain seems to be a side-effect of some concern to a few ppl on Nardil.
Anyway, just wanted to share how effective I'm finding parnate, and how I'm experiencing virtually zero negative side-effects. I hope you find it or nardil just as favourable, and I think you will :).
Good luck
T
Posted by Phillipa on June 10, 2005, at 18:34:36
In reply to Re: Nardil or Parnate?, posted by superman on June 10, 2005, at 10:49:22
I heard Parnate was energizing too. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Declan on June 13, 2005, at 0:05:18
In reply to Re: Nardil or Parnate?, posted by Phillipa on June 10, 2005, at 18:34:36
I'm gonna go for low dose Parnate I think, and hope its profile will be such that I can slip under the overstimulation thing and have a bit of improved mood and sociability. I know people have suggested it's not much good for that, but I even noticed an improvement (in mood, not SP) in low dose moclobemide, and so I'm hoping Parnate will be similar but better. Perhaps 20mg/d. Feedback appreciated.
Declan
Posted by Maxime on June 13, 2005, at 2:24:20
In reply to Re: Nardil or Parnate?, posted by Declan on June 13, 2005, at 0:05:18
Hi Declan :-)
You might have to go to 30 mg to notice a difference. I had a friend who tried Nardil first because she very bad social anxiety. She never left the house. But she couldn't tolerate the Nardil. She tried Parnate and it works likes a charm on both her depression AND social anxiety. So as you know, meds affect everyone differently and Parnate could very well help you SA.
Most people don't have too much trouble with insomnia as long as they take their last dose by noon.The fatigue in the afternoon seems to be more of a problem! LOL!
Good luck and let us know how it goes!
Maxime
> I'm gonna go for low dose Parnate I think, and hope its profile will be such that I can slip under the overstimulation thing and have a bit of improved mood and sociability. I know people have suggested it's not much good for that, but I even noticed an improvement (in mood, not SP) in low dose moclobemide, and so I'm hoping Parnate will be similar but better. Perhaps 20mg/d. Feedback appreciated.
> Declan
>
>
Posted by Chairman_MAO on June 16, 2005, at 12:46:53
In reply to Re: Nardil or Parnate?, posted by Declan on June 13, 2005, at 0:05:18
You will most likely experience some improvement of mood and SP symptoms on low-dose Parnate. However, to feel its full antidepressant and pro-social effects, you need to take 0.8mg/kg--at the very least. That is the dose that generally produces the requisite 80% MAO inhibition needed for an MAOI's antidepressant effect.
For some people, tranylcypromine either only works or works substantially better in doses of 90mg-200mg/day. For me, 200mg/day definitely produced the strongest mood elevation, but was slightly overstimulating toward the end of the day (when the only thing left in your system is Parnate's amphetamine-like metabolites). According to a classic study on the topic, most people responded at 120mg/day +/- ~10mg.
Also worthy of mention is an interesting phenomenon: When used in high doses, there are usually FEWER side effects, especially orthostatic hyptotension. The amphetamine-like metabolites have pressor effects, and so can counteract the hypotension. I also found orgasms at 150-200mg/day to be far MORE enjoyable than off the medication; simply off-the-charts AMAZING. The orgasms are the only property of Parnate that I miss now that I'm on Nardil which, IMHO, does what you're looking for better than Parnate. It has a "magical" effect on anxiety for many people, including myself.
Posted by Declan on June 17, 2005, at 2:12:24
In reply to Re: Nardil or Parnate? » Declan, posted by Chairman_MAO on June 16, 2005, at 12:46:53
What about low dose Nardil then? I imagine the side effects kick in before the therapeutic ones. I'm sure it would suit me better, but noone (well not noone) can stand them. Did you notice Nardil straight away? But then that morning you'd had 200mg tranylcypromine, can that be right?, in which case.......Why don't some of these hot researchers do something here?.....I suppose we're back to the war on drugs.
Declan
Posted by Chairman_MAO on June 17, 2005, at 12:34:59
In reply to Re: Nardil or Parnate?, posted by Declan on June 17, 2005, at 2:12:24
Yes, I had 200mg of tranylcypromine that morning, and started on Nardil 60mg/day straight away with no problems. I had to immediately jump up to 75mg/day to avoid "brain shocks" and a feeling of parnate withdrawal that was probably due to both the lack of parnate's amphetamine-like metabolites and the MAO inhibition of 200mg/day being quite a bit more than that provided by 60mg/day phenelzine.
90mg/day of phenelzine is closest to the 1mg/kg therapeutic dose for me (I am around 180-185lbs), and gives the best results. I now take it all at night, btw, which has greatly reduced the insomnia (Nardil has an acute sedative effect, at least in me), sexual dysfunction, and drowsiness. I am also happy to report that, now that I take phenelzine 90mg qhs instead of 22.5mg qid, the sexual/libido enhancing effects of the cabergoline are BACK, despite the buprenorphine 4mg qid! I am also feeling slightly anxious--probably from the cabergoline--but it is not even always noticeable. I also feel quite motivated an upbeat. Man, what a combo this is.
I would give Nardil a try, man. The side effects go away with time, yada yada. And you can always take a DA agonist to deal with the sexual side effects as I do. It works wonders.
Posted by owenor on June 23, 2005, at 18:45:30
In reply to Re: Nardil or Parnate? » Declan, posted by Chairman_MAO on June 17, 2005, at 12:34:59
I am not familiar with all the technical names. but i have been taking 100 mg parnate 300 wellbutrin and 200mg lamictal 200 mg for five years, fantastic for depression, last two years sexual side effect of a significant decrease in libido (also delayed orgasm). the loss of libido has become unacceptable in my life. Is the previous poster saying at 200mg of parnate the side effect of loss of libido eased. also i take all this drugs in the morning. any help?!? I am about to switch off but i am terrified of the time it will take me to get off parnate and the trial and error of new drugs. in addition to the suffering and misery i worry about my job. but i have to take the plunge. would love to try something that would let me stay on the parnate. THANKS!!
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