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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by med_empowered on May 19, 2005, at 16:00:22
hey guys! Sorry to bring up such a weird, dark subject as lobotomy, but I'm kinda curious about it...I had to research on lobotomy and other old-school "treatments" for mental illness (insulin-coma therapy, metrazol therapy, that kind of thing) for a class. Has anyone met someone who had a lobotomy? Has anyone met someone who's had one of the newer brain surgeries they do for OCD and/or depression? Does anyone know if full-fledged lobotomies are still performed in other countries? Thanks for your time!
Posted by Maxime on May 19, 2005, at 16:29:46
In reply to **LOBOTOMY**, posted by med_empowered on May 19, 2005, at 16:00:22
I know they still do partial lobotomies. There was someone in the book Noonday Demon who had one.
Are you talking about DBS as the newer surgeries? Deep Brain Stimulation? I was trying to get it on a study to have that done.
But no, I have never met anyone who had these procedures done.
Maxime
> hey guys! Sorry to bring up such a weird, dark subject as lobotomy, but I'm kinda curious about it...I had to research on lobotomy and other old-school "treatments" for mental illness (insulin-coma therapy, metrazol therapy, that kind of thing) for a class. Has anyone met someone who had a lobotomy? Has anyone met someone who's had one of the newer brain surgeries they do for OCD and/or depression? Does anyone know if full-fledged lobotomies are still performed in other countries? Thanks for your time!
Posted by Racer on May 19, 2005, at 16:38:39
In reply to Re: **LOBOTOMY**, posted by Maxime on May 19, 2005, at 16:29:46
A friend's mother had some sort of psychic surgery, many, many years ago. I am not sure exactly why or for what, but I was told that the surgery cut most of the connections between the two hemispheres of her brain.
By the time I knew her, she had Parkinson's badly enough that it was hard to understand her speech, so I can't tell you anything about its effectiveness. My friend, though, said that -- crazy and maddening as she still was -- she was not totally impossible to live with after the surgery.
For whatever that's worth.
Posted by rainbowbrite on May 19, 2005, at 17:40:34
In reply to **LOBOTOMY**, posted by med_empowered on May 19, 2005, at 16:00:22
I met someone who had what I understood to be a partial lobotomy, he was very very ill and violent. I met the person after he had it, and it had apparently made a huge impovement in his behavior. i dont think they still call it a lobotomy though.
Posted by Phillipa on May 19, 2005, at 19:42:58
In reply to Re: **LOBOTOMY** » med_empowered, posted by rainbowbrite on May 19, 2005, at 17:40:34
I hope they don't perform them anymore. It sounds so archaic! Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by rainbowbrite on May 19, 2005, at 21:03:55
In reply to Re: **LOBOTOMY**, posted by Phillipa on May 19, 2005, at 19:42:58
what this guy had was what I am assuming was a modern day lobotomy, he had part of his brain removed to try to contain his behavior. it was done in the frontal lobe. I dont remember what the exact surgery was called, but I was told it was like a lobotomy. I was pretty young when I met him so I could be mistaken. But I dont think so.
Posted by Phillipa on May 19, 2005, at 21:07:28
In reply to Re: **LOBOTOMY** » Phillipa, posted by rainbowbrite on May 19, 2005, at 21:03:55
Don't you think it's barbaric? I do. I can't imagine. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by rainbowbrite on May 19, 2005, at 21:37:56
In reply to Re: **LOBOTOMY** » rainbowbrite, posted by Phillipa on May 19, 2005, at 21:07:28
Totally! Its sick that it was ever done and the way it was done!! I had to watch a movie in one of my classes at school that showed one being done...it was awful! I couldnt sleep for days.
Posted by Declan on May 20, 2005, at 7:45:59
In reply to Re: **LOBOTOMY** » Phillipa, posted by rainbowbrite on May 19, 2005, at 21:37:56
The patient is conscious during the procedure?? Calling it a procedure sounds odd.
Posted by rainbowbrite on May 20, 2005, at 9:17:05
In reply to Re: **LOBOTOMY**, posted by Declan on May 20, 2005, at 7:45:59
NO. He was put under. I feel like I am giving misinformation but I know that this guy was put under general anasthetic and had part of the frontal cortex removed. I asked if it was like a lobotomy and she said yes, but hardly the same becasue of the way it is done. So its the same ONLY in the sense that they are removing part of the brain. Sorry if I phrased that wrong.
He was very very sick and I think it is RARELY done.
Posted by SadDoggie on May 20, 2005, at 17:40:33
In reply to Re: **LOBOTOMY**, posted by Declan on May 20, 2005, at 7:45:59
The problem is not that it's disgusting or anything like that, the problem's that you can come out worse, severely disabled if not done right, or who knows what. So it's only reserved for extremely ill people. Let's just say if you can write in this messageboard you probably don't qualify for it. Except for deep-brain stimulation which I think may be done to people with less severe cases.
Posted by med_empowered on May 20, 2005, at 20:53:09
In reply to Re: **LOBOTOMY**, posted by SadDoggie on May 20, 2005, at 17:40:33
hi! By "modern day procedures," I meant just about any of the newer psychosurgical techniques, from the cingulotomy (I think that's what its called...for OCD, maybe?) to Deep Brain Stimulation (which seems harmless to me...I don't think they actually damage or remove anything at all) to the old school, remove all the frontal lobes-style procedure. I don't know how the new operations are done today, but way back when it was standard practice to have the patient conscious during the procedure. They might be given a mild sedative (barbiturate, later benzo, etc.) and were sometimes given a few electric shocks before the operation. In the US, there were 2 major techniques: the "full" lobotomy and the transorbital. The "full" lobotomy came around first, in the late 1930s. Basically, the patient's head was shaved, they were given some electrick shocks, holes were drilled in the sides and top of the heads, and a surgical instrument (several were used) was inserted through the whole to sever the frontal lobes. Variations on this involved using chemicals instead of a surgical instrument--boiling water, strong acids, and, of all things novocaine. (I did a paper on stuff like this recently). The transorbital technique was developed in the late 1940s and is what made lobotomy cheap and kind of popular; basically, a cutting instrument was placed just below the transorbital bone...with the push of a hammer, the doctor broke the transorbital bone and entered the brain. Then the instrument was moved around a bit, and this was repeated on the other side of the head. **Gross** I know...I just find this whole chapter of psychiatry bizarre and dark. I think we have to remember it always so nothing like this happens again. Anyway, the last full-fledged, old-style lobotomy performed in the US that I could discover was done in 1977 or 1978 at a state hospital in minnesotta. Thanks again for all your input!
Posted by Phillipa on May 20, 2005, at 21:08:19
In reply to More about Lobotomy, posted by med_empowered on May 20, 2005, at 20:53:09
Med_empowered! What is your profession or line of study? You are extremely intelligent. And I'm really curious. If you don't want to announce it to the world then Babble me. I won't tell! Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by ed_uk on May 21, 2005, at 7:39:41
In reply to Re: More about Lobotomy » med_empowered, posted by Phillipa on May 20, 2005, at 21:08:19
Have a look at this.....
http://www.dundee.ac.uk/psychiatry/research_mood_nmd_proc.htm
Ed.
Posted by Phillipa on May 21, 2005, at 17:44:12
In reply to Operations in the UK, posted by ed_uk on May 21, 2005, at 7:39:41
Too much research not enough studying. But you deserve a break. That was not a pretty article. Fondly, PJ O
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