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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by ed_uk on April 4, 2005, at 21:06:28
In reply to Re: Oxycontin for mental health....search time » paulbwell, posted by jerrympls on April 4, 2005, at 20:45:23
Hi Jerry!
>BTW - how are you these days???
I'm not too bad thank you :-)
I'm trying to encourage my parents to pay for me to see a private pdoc, I'm sick of the SSRI merry-go-round! I'd like to try an MAOI instead of my current lofepramine but it's difficult to find a pdoc who prescribes MAOIs. Lofepramine's OK but I've still got too many symptoms.
>saying how terrible these evil pain meds are for getting them addicted!
LOL! .....As if they didn't know it was addictive before they took the first pill!!
>"They should take opiates off the market!" BOO HOO.
You're right, people who say things like that are just selfish. What about all the millions of people in chronic severe pain?
Kind regards,
Ed.
Posted by paulbwell on April 4, 2005, at 22:12:44
In reply to Re: Oxycontin for mental health....search time » paulbwell, posted by jerrympls on April 4, 2005, at 20:45:23
Jerry
Jerry
JerryMy fellow PBler, I'm on YOUR side member?. I agree with you.
Rich kids+too much time+drugs=trouble.I support your O trials, cos I know what Codeine does to my head, and am glad you are well!!.
Pills only have effects.
what people choose to do with thoes effects is up to them.
The media lives on sensation, yes?
not on Jerry, who is restored to WELLNESS by a carefully monitored medication programme.we are together in this.
peace bro
Posted by jerrympls on April 4, 2005, at 22:15:44
In reply to JERRY JERRY JERRY, posted by paulbwell on April 4, 2005, at 22:12:44
> Jerry
> Jerry
> Jerry
>
> My fellow PBler, I'm on YOUR side member?. I agree with you.
> Rich kids+too much time+drugs=trouble.
>
> I support your O trials, cos I know what Codeine does to my head, and am glad you are well!!.
>
> Pills only have effects.
>
> what people choose to do with thoes effects is up to them.
>
> The media lives on sensation, yes?
> not on Jerry, who is restored to WELLNESS by a carefully monitored medication programme.
>
> we are together in this.
>
> peace broHey Paul--I know we're on the same side. I just didn't want you to take my venting personally. :-)
Posted by paulbwell on April 4, 2005, at 22:27:50
In reply to Re: JERRY JERRY JERRY » paulbwell, posted by jerrympls on April 4, 2005, at 22:15:44
I didn't,
I think you know you have my support anyways.
cheers
Posted by Larry Hoover on April 4, 2005, at 22:37:07
In reply to Re: Oxycontin for mental health....WOW!!!!!!!!! » Larry Hoover, posted by jerrympls on April 4, 2005, at 20:31:25
> I disagree that taking 20mg of Oxycontin is drug abuse behavior - and while tolerance is an issue - it doesn't happen all the time. I'm going on 5 months continuous treatment with an opiate PRESCRIBED by my pdoc for my depression. Still works like day #1.
>
> JerryBeing prescribed a med, and being under medical supervision, is very different, in my mind, than hanging at a buddy's place and knocking back a psychoactive dose of a powerful drug.
I'm really glad it's working for you, Jerry. I just pray it never poops out, as it could be unpleasant discontinuing.
Lar
Posted by jerrympls on April 4, 2005, at 23:11:21
In reply to Re: Oxycontin for mental health....WOW!!!!!!!!! » jerrympls, posted by Larry Hoover on April 4, 2005, at 22:37:07
> > I disagree that taking 20mg of Oxycontin is drug abuse behavior - and while tolerance is an issue - it doesn't happen all the time. I'm going on 5 months continuous treatment with an opiate PRESCRIBED by my pdoc for my depression. Still works like day #1.
> >
> > Jerry
>
> Being prescribed a med, and being under medical supervision, is very different, in my mind, than hanging at a buddy's place and knocking back a psychoactive dose of a powerful drug.
>
> I'm really glad it's working for you, Jerry. I just pray it never poops out, as it could be unpleasant discontinuing.
>
> Lar
>Lar--I worry that it may poop out - and I hope it doesn't. We'll see....
thanks ;-)
Jerry
Posted by jay on April 5, 2005, at 17:04:55
In reply to Oxycontin for mental health....WOW!!!!!!!!!, posted by jay on April 3, 2005, at 4:36:22
I have had a few very, very busy days since I posted this, and am sorry I couldn't get back to each one of you.(Not that you needed me to, or that I am that important..lol.. :-) You guys make excellent comments, and I am going to try and squeeze in what I can.
Thanks,
Jay
Posted by Paulbwell on April 5, 2005, at 18:31:08
In reply to Re: Oxycontin for mental health....WOW!!!!!!!!! » Larry Hoover, posted by jerrympls on April 4, 2005, at 23:11:21
> Lar--I worry that it may poop out - and I hope it doesn't. We'll see....
>
> thanks ;-)
> JerryHi Jer,
Don't worry about poop-out!. Enjoy you good health-life,
NOW!.I'm sure if you run into 'issues' with your treatments success, you and your (very lucky to have) support team will work out alternate plans-- other meds?, nmda antagonists?, etc to keep you well.
Four months plus, seems like good going to me.
Remember there are many! famous artists, Celebrities, who have stayed at the same Opi-dosage for MANY years, and maintained the same benefits, tolerance and dose escalation are not guaranteed.
Freet not.
Enjoy your good health NOW!.
Posted by jay on April 5, 2005, at 18:50:52
In reply to Re: Oxycontin for mental health....WOW!!!!!!!!! » jerrympls, posted by Larry Hoover on April 4, 2005, at 22:37:07
> > I disagree that taking 20mg of Oxycontin is drug abuse behavior - and while tolerance is an issue - it doesn't happen all the time. I'm going on 5 months continuous treatment with an opiate PRESCRIBED by my pdoc for my depression. Still works like day #1.
> >
> > Jerry
>
> Being prescribed a med, and being under medical supervision, is very different, in my mind, than hanging at a buddy's place and knocking back a psychoactive dose of a powerful drug.
>
> I'm really glad it's working for you, Jerry. I just pray it never poops out, as it could be unpleasant discontinuing.
>
> Lar
>Larry, I think you are close to spot-on, but I must add that even though he offered me bottles full free of charge, and to visit anytime, I haven't and won't go that route. But, I believe based on a number of factors, occasional and controlled use of most substances out there is possible, with *many exact conditions*, and only by a small part of the population. A book you should read is "how to stop time : heroin from A to Z" by Ann Marlowe, explains a bit of the above.
Under controlled conditions from a doctor, as in Jerry's case, I agree is the wisest. But, I simply popped a pill or two the same way you would take a drink, have a smoke, and by using it only once, I would say the Oxycontin was much safer.
IMHO...
Jay
Posted by jerrympls on April 5, 2005, at 19:20:44
In reply to Jerry. rest assured, posted by Paulbwell on April 5, 2005, at 18:31:08
> > Lar--I worry that it may poop out - and I hope it doesn't. We'll see....
> >
> > thanks ;-)
> > Jerry
>
> Hi Jer,
>
> Don't worry about poop-out!. Enjoy you good health-life,
> NOW!.
>
> I'm sure if you run into 'issues' with your treatments success, you and your (very lucky to have) support team will work out alternate plans-- other meds?, nmda antagonists?, etc to keep you well.
>
> Four months plus, seems like good going to me.
>
> Remember there are many! famous artists, Celebrities, who have stayed at the same Opi-dosage for MANY years, and maintained the same benefits, tolerance and dose escalation are not guaranteed.
>
> Freet not.
> Enjoy your good health NOW!.
>
>
Thank you so much Paul!!
Posted by Paulbwell on April 5, 2005, at 20:07:02
In reply to Re: Jerry. rest assured » Paulbwell, posted by jerrympls on April 5, 2005, at 19:20:44
> Thank you so much Paul!!
You'r welcome,
Have you tried Codeine?
Hydro 5 would compare to what in codeine?
hydro vs Codeine=would you know?
Posted by jerrympls on April 5, 2005, at 20:18:31
In reply to Re: Jerry. rest assured, posted by Paulbwell on April 5, 2005, at 20:07:02
> > Thank you so much Paul!!
>
> You'r welcome,
>
> Have you tried Codeine?
> Hydro 5 would compare to what in codeine?
> hydro vs Codeine=
>
> would you know?Not sure how codeine matches up with hydrocodone. Codeine is NOT a synthetic opiate whereas hydrocodone is. I don't get an antidepressant effect with codeine.
??
Posted by barbaracat on April 6, 2005, at 14:29:20
In reply to Oxycontin for mental health....WOW!!!!!!!!!, posted by jay on April 3, 2005, at 4:36:22
It's a wonderful AD. If it didn't bung me up I'd take it all the time. That is, if it didn't cause the tolerance issues. Too bad. I think endorphins are a gravely ignored field in our mood dysfunctions. - BCat
Posted by ed_uk on April 6, 2005, at 15:00:24
In reply to Re: Oxycontin for mental health » jay, posted by barbaracat on April 6, 2005, at 14:29:20
Hi B!
>If it didn't bung me up I'd take it all the time.
Interestingly, at least two peripheral opioid antagonists are in development: methylnaltrexone and alvimopan. They are effective in preventing/treating opioid-induced constipation while leaving the analgesic properties of the opioid unchanged. At the moment, many patients who take opioids such as oxycodone for the treatment of chronic pain need to take two or more laxatives on a daily basis. Lactulose + senna is a popular combination in the UK.
Ed.
Posted by jerrympls on April 6, 2005, at 19:12:53
In reply to Peripheral opioid antagonists » barbaracat, posted by ed_uk on April 6, 2005, at 15:00:24
> Hi B!
>
> >If it didn't bung me up I'd take it all the time.
>
> Interestingly, at least two peripheral opioid antagonists are in development: methylnaltrexone and alvimopan. They are effective in preventing/treating opioid-induced constipation while leaving the analgesic properties of the opioid unchanged. At the moment, many patients who take opioids such as oxycodone for the treatment of chronic pain need to take two or more laxatives on a daily basis. Lactulose + senna is a popular combination in the UK.
>
> Ed.Luckily I have had no problems with constipation while on the hydrocodone. Haven't had to take any laxatives either.
Posted by barbaracat on April 6, 2005, at 22:58:59
In reply to Peripheral opioid antagonists » barbaracat, posted by ed_uk on April 6, 2005, at 15:00:24
**I take 2 Tbs psyllium husks, 2 Tbs ground flax seeds and 1 Tbs ground pumpkin seeds and some ayurvedic herbs. Along with about 12 glasses water a day it does the trick.
Prior to this, not to be rude or anything, but months would go by before I had a satisfying evac. I knew something was terribly wrong, whether it was hypothyroidism, the opiods to treat fibro pain, or whatever. I now see how chronic digestive problems were keeping me in a spiral of toxicity.
It's difficult to say what elements contributed more than others once you start feeling well - was it getting the thyroid med right, going on my wee dose of Cymbalta, getting my sex hormones balanced, cutting way back on alcohol and committing to my health. I don't know. But having righteous poops ranks very high on the list.
>
> Interestingly, at least two peripheral opioid antagonists are in development: methylnaltrexone and alvimopan. They are effective in preventing/treating opioid-induced constipation while leaving the analgesic properties of the opioid unchanged. At the moment, many patients who take opioids such as oxycodone for the treatment of chronic pain need to take two or more laxatives on a daily basis. Lactulose + senna is a popular combination in the UK.
>
> Ed.
Posted by Paulbwell on April 7, 2005, at 1:13:14
In reply to Re: Oxycontin for mental health » jay, posted by barbaracat on April 6, 2005, at 14:29:20
> It's a wonderful AD. If it didn't bung me up I'd take it all the time. That is, if it didn't cause the tolerance issues. Too bad. I think endorphins are a gravely ignored field in our mood dysfunctions. - BCat
Hi Barb,
Yes you are right, It's 2005 not 1905 unfortunatly, no more 'mrs winslows powered opium syrup' and the like OTC anymore.
I have an acquantance who has suffered from Psychiatric 'issues' for several years, shes about 27, and had every
anti psychotic
anti depressant
lithium
and more, thrown at her, often at high doses. these seem to have not helped. after trying Methadone, 15mgs she felt more benefit than from said meds, so It seems she has suffered enought for the'medical profession' to allow her to have it legally (after saying she was buying it from the black market).She feels 'normal' on it, a term heard so often from thoes with mental 'issues' who respond well to Opiates/Opiods.
It is time this "gravely ignored field" was reopened, with respect to other conditions, than sever PHYSICAL ONLY Pain.
p
Posted by Paulbwell on April 7, 2005, at 1:44:45
In reply to Re: Peripheral opioid antagonists » ed_uk, posted by barbaracat on April 6, 2005, at 22:58:59
The BEST LAXATIVE would have to be 2 teaspoons of Epsom Salts (magnesium sulphate) disolved in hot water, with a taste hider.
try that for a "righteous poop"--classic+)
Posted by ed_uk on April 7, 2005, at 8:40:01
In reply to Re: Peripheral opioid antagonists, posted by jerrympls on April 6, 2005, at 19:12:53
Hi Jerry!
Luckily I have had no problems with constipation while on the hydrocodone. Haven't had to take any laxatives either.
:-)
Ed.
Posted by ed_uk on April 7, 2005, at 8:44:34
In reply to 1905-2005?, posted by Paulbwell on April 7, 2005, at 1:13:14
Hi P,
>'mrs winslows powered opium syrup'
LOL! That's just the sort of name that it would have been called.
Ed.
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 8, 2005, at 0:09:32
In reply to Best Laxative, posted by Paulbwell on April 7, 2005, at 1:44:45
> The BEST LAXATIVE would have to be 2 teaspoons of Epsom Salts (magnesium sulphate) disolved in hot water, with a taste hider...
Sorry to interrupt, but I'd like to redirect follow-ups regarding laxatives to Psycho-Babble Health. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/health/20050306/msgs/481431.html
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by flipsactown on April 8, 2005, at 1:31:29
In reply to Re: Oxycontin for mental health....WOW!!!!!!!!! » Larry Hoover, posted by jerrympls on April 4, 2005, at 20:31:25
I took the max dosage of Oxycontin 2 tabs 4 times daily for nearly 2 years prescribed by a Pain Management Doc. I suffer from chronic back pain after two failed back surgeries, numerous pain shots, nerve block, facet joint,cortisone,etc.
I had been taking Tylenol-Codeine 3, 60mg x 5 times daily for years and finally decided to try the Oxycontin since I heard it was long lasting. I had to keep increasing the dosage to the max and even then it was only giving me the same pain relief I was getting from the Tylenol-Codeine. So, I decided to go back to Tylenol-Codeine when I experienced, accidentally, the terrible withdrawal effects of Oxycontin when I used more Oxy then prescribed because I was trying to do more home chores. It was only a day without Oxy and already I started feeling flu like symptoms, dizziness, and on the 2nd day I felt like bugs or ants crawling all over my body and I just wanted to jump right out of my body. That was a horrible feeling, so that same day, I went to Urgent Care where, fortunatley, my Adult Med Doc gave me an emergency refill enough to last a week, until my Pain Mgmt Doc would be able to write me a refill. I read about the warnings about the horrible withdrawals of Oxycontin, but I thought it was exaggeration. Believe me when I say it was not an exaggeration.
Bottomline: Oxycontin did not act as an A/D for me, as I was taking several different A/D's including Prozac, Remeron, Lithium and Lamictal. Lamictal was used to enhance Prozac's A/D effects. Currently, I am on Lexapro and just recently add Wellbutrin to enhance Lexapro's A/D effect after I felt the Lexapro losing it's effectiveness after 9 months of use. Fortunately, although it has only been 6 days since adding Wellbutrin SR, I am starting to feel less depressed.
As far as Oxycontin is concerned, I would never use it again because of the horrible withdrawals and the many hoops one has to jump to continue getting refills or an increase in dosage. I did not experience any withdrawals from my years of taking Codeine. I went for weeks or months without taking any Codeine, just to prove to myself that I was not addicted. I can't say the same for Oxycontin. I am still taking Codeine.
This is just my own personal experience.
FST
> > > Last weekend at a friends place, and he gets giant pills of Oxycontin every month for a work-related disability. So, I have a *wee* headache (ha, nice excuse!) and decided to pop 2 back. (I think that was 20 mg's..not sure..doh!) Well, I never, ever felt better than ever, all of my tension released, relaxed, got home and had the best sleep ever. I am so confused about this...in their use for mental illness, would we develop a tolerance? What do you guys think?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Jay
> >
> > Here's the problem for psych use. Tolerance.
> >
> > You will only get the effect you describe if you use the drug occasionally. Occasionally can mean different things to different people, but once weekly may be too often for most.
> >
> > The active ingredient, oxycodone, is very addictive. Next to heroin, (and maybe even ahead of it now), oxycodone is the most abused opiate or opiate-related drug. It is a very slippery slope, and you have one foot firmly planted on it. Taking two is already drug-abusive behaviour. Beware.
> >
> > Lar
> >
> >
>
> I disagree that taking 20mg of Oxycontin is drug abuse behavior - and while tolerance is an issue - it doesn't happen all the time. I'm going on 5 months continuous treatment with an opiate PRESCRIBED by my pdoc for my depression. Still works like day #1.
>
> Jerry
Posted by Paulbwell on April 8, 2005, at 22:08:44
In reply to Re: Oxycontin for mental health....WOW!!!!!!!!! » jerrympls, posted by flipsactown on April 8, 2005, at 1:31:29
Hi Flip,
You say you took/take 300mgs+ Codeine Daily for years and you could quit anytime, without trouble?
*no withdrawal symptoms*?
-Sore joints
-Sleep trouble
-Anxiety?
even after long term use?I find Codeine usefull sometimes, but dependence concerns me.
You apparently find the natural Opiate Codeine, a different animal, from synthetics like the notorious Oxycontin?
Posted by flipsactown on April 8, 2005, at 22:38:00
In reply to Flip???, posted by Paulbwell on April 8, 2005, at 22:08:44
That is my experience, no sore joints, no sleep trouble, no withdrawals and no anxiety. In fact, on my last refill, I had to wait a week before I was able to get a refill and had no withdrawals. Now if that was Oxycontin, I would have been in the emergency room begging for emergency Oxy refill!!
Codeine works for my chronic pain! Oxycontin was very addictive and in the long run provided only as much relief as codeine. Of course, everyone reacts differently to medication.
FST
> Hi Flip,
>
> You say you took/take 300mgs+ Codeine Daily for years and you could quit anytime, without trouble?
>
> *no withdrawal symptoms*?
> -Sore joints
> -Sleep trouble
> -Anxiety?
> even after long term use?
>
> I find Codeine usefull sometimes, but dependence concerns me.
>
> You apparently find the natural Opiate Codeine, a different animal, from synthetics like the notorious Oxycontin?
Posted by Paulbwell on April 9, 2005, at 0:58:57
In reply to Re: Flip??? » Paulbwell, posted by flipsactown on April 8, 2005, at 22:38:00
Thanks Flip,
Comforting to know.
You take 60mgs 5x a day=300mgs?
and find pain relief better than Oxy?-No Euphoria/stimulation from Oxy?
-Apparently Oxycontin is a stimulating Opiod,
thou I'm guessing when abused, not when used medically, as in your case.If I may ask, what dose of Oxycontin did you use for your injuries?
Thanks for your relpy
Cheers
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