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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by corafree on February 10, 2005, at 22:30:53
In reply to Re: More on hypothyroidism » Phillipa, posted by corafree on February 10, 2005, at 22:25:09
Now I see there is also, T3 uptake, and Thyroid Cascade Profile, already on form, unchecked. Shall I ask for referral to an endo?! cf
Posted by Phillipa on February 10, 2005, at 23:55:51
In reply to Re: More on hypothyroidism » corafree, posted by corafree on February 10, 2005, at 22:30:53
Tell him you want a complete thyroid panel done. When the results are in,find out what they are. Then if you think it's necessary see an endo. In the meantime, find a good endo {I don't know if you're in a large city or what}ask around for a good ones' name and call and tell them your situation and find out how you can see him. Boy, here I am telling you how to do it, and I don't have the guts to call the neurologist and demand he send my MRI to the endo! Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Troubled1 on February 11, 2005, at 1:27:48
In reply to Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by jp on October 24, 1999, at 14:59:14
I strongly recommend seeing an Endocrinologist if anything is abnormal re lab results. Most good doctors will refer you w/o you having to ask. There is a reason that Endos exist. They have far more knowledge in that area than GPs. They also deal with all disorders of the endocrine system, not just thyroid. Adrenal insufficiency is another disorder that I stumbled upon while researching pituitary disorders. It has similar symptoms including fatigue, depression, etc. and can be brought on simply by stress. I plan on requesting that my Endo do a full blood panel for other disorders/hormones as well as my regular hypo tests. I've read that some suffering from chronic fatigue symptoms have had success with treatment not only with T3 but also treatment for adrenal exhaustion, and supplementation of any other hormones that may be deficient (progesterone was a common one for women) even prior to menopause. Sometimes you just have to push for what you need at the risk of ticking off your doctor. Any time I have felt ill enough to go to my GP in the past, I have been right. As discussed, I knew there was something wrong and sure enough tests showed hypothyroidism. Years later, I began having severe nausea and vertigo. After complaining several times to GP who acted as though I was a hypochondriac, he referred me to a medical centre who specialized in problems of the inner ear. Sure enough, after being hooked up to electrodes, having water pumped into my ears, being placed into weird positions, etc., my tests came back with a definite difference in the way the right side of my brain and the left were responding. They hypothesized that I likely had a prior ear infection that was untreated and, therefore, caused the damage. Anyway, the bottom line is that it is your life. You are the one suffering, not your GP. After this recent experience, this Social Worker really doesn't give a you know what if my doctors like me as long as they continue to run the tests I need. I'm sure if they had to live in our shoes for even a day, they'd run every bloody test known to modern man on themselves. So, go ahead and push guys and gals. Sometimes you just have to take back control of your lives to get results. We Social Workers are trained to empower our clients. As a result, it's extremely frustrating to have a GP who just wants you to shut up and let him/her make all the decisions re your life/health for you. Do your own research and don't be afraid to discuss it with your GP (tactfully, of course; egos are fragile). Good luck.
Karen
Posted by corafree on February 11, 2005, at 13:58:54
In reply to Re: Thyroid testing, posted by Troubled1 on February 11, 2005, at 1:27:48
Appreciate your encouragement. Before finding so many knowledgeable and giving people on this website, might have given up. best wishes cf
Posted by Phillipa on February 11, 2005, at 16:37:42
In reply to Re: Thyroid testing, posted by Troubled1 on February 11, 2005, at 1:27:48
Oh no! My mother died as a result of Addison's Disease in the l960's at age 48. They thought I had Cushings Disease in my late 20's, but it turned out I just drank a lot of water. With the constant stress I'm experiencing,{move, sell of custom home, no job, my husband no job, loss of 3 beloved pets, doctor changes, about to lose insurance}, I could go on and on, but you get the picture. I have been saying that the reason I don't feel, taste anything{went to Taste Center so I have the papers to prove it} no reaction mentally to anything, that my adrenals are exhausted. Now I'll have to do a search on this. I will also tell the new pdoc on monday, as she has a lot of experience. I just hope she's finally "the one". Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by dancingstar on February 11, 2005, at 18:37:50
In reply to More on hypothyroidism, posted by Troubled1 on February 10, 2005, at 20:39:09
My internist is an integrative medicine doctor and uses Armour thyroid because it supposedly works on both the T3 and T4. I've had great results with it even though pharmacists tend to look at me like I'm nuts when I first go there with my prescriptions. It's not a popular choice these days.
I didn't need thyroid, though, until I had been on Effexor for quite some time. Now that I am off of Effexor, I will need to have my TSH levels checked again to be sure that I don't need to lower the dosage.
You are right, though, thyroid is amazingly important in helping to ward off so many problems, including depression.
Bebe
Posted by Daky on February 11, 2005, at 19:11:58
In reply to Re: More on hypothyroidism » Troubled1, posted by dancingstar on February 11, 2005, at 18:37:50
Jumping in here to share a bit about hypothyroidism and depression/anxiety. It's important to have a doctor who tests thyroid function regularly. If there is a problem a referral to an endocrinologist MIGHT get you the help you need. Often times however, the best place to look is for an "alternative" doctor, like an OD or a natureopath or a MD who is holistically oriented. A couple of good books are The Thyroid Solution by Dr. Arem and What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Hypothyrodism by Mary Shomon (About.com--thyroid disease forum).
It's complicated and getting a doctor to correctly diagnose it and treat it using T3 can be difficult. Armour is a good option for many but the amount of T3 is too high for some people. Armour was the drug of choice for years before the synthetic T4 meds were developed.Some people do much better on Armour (pigs thyroid hormone) than on the synthetics but others find the amount of T3 in Armour to be too high.
I go to a thyroid guru in the Boston area and am fortunate to have found him but unfortunately, his practice is now closed to new patients. He has helped me tremendously.
Posted by Phillipa on February 11, 2005, at 19:57:35
In reply to Re: More on hypothyroidism, posted by Daky on February 11, 2005, at 19:11:58
Don't mention OD. The "bad" pdoc was one. While when I first saw him nearly 8yrs ago he was holistic oriented he became corrupt when he became a psychiatrist and passed the Boards. The drug companies got him, now he's under investigation for medical fraud, and illegal distribution of controlled substances. I have had my thyroid checked in the last month at least 4-5times due to changing pdocs so much. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on February 11, 2005, at 20:00:43
In reply to Re: More on hypothyroidism, posted by Daky on February 11, 2005, at 19:11:58
Okay, I'm finally going to tell you his name. He doesn't know who Phillipa is anyway. Michael Kermit Nunn OD in North Carolina. Run a check on the New Bern Sun Journel, Business As Usual, on Feb l. There I feel better! Fondly Phillipa
Posted by winddancer on February 11, 2005, at 20:09:41
In reply to Re: Thyroid testing » Troubled1, posted by Phillipa on February 11, 2005, at 16:37:42
That's the first time I've heard mention the lack of taste symptom! This is what I experience so I only eat because I know I must. It's a sad day when chocolate doesn't taste like anything. I had a feeling it was drug related. Geez, I'll be so glad to get off this stuff. My naturopath is "at the ready" if I need some herbal support for depression or anxiety, as I continue to decrease my dose.
I am having good success with the acupuncture and chinese herb tea helping with my sleep. What a joy ot wake up feeling rested. It's been a long time. I'm also trying out a Nikken sleep system. They claim that it can relieve fibromyalgia and sleep problems. Let me know if you want to know more.
winddancer
Posted by Phillipa on February 11, 2005, at 20:41:46
In reply to Re: Thyroid testing » Phillipa, posted by winddancer on February 11, 2005, at 20:09:41
Did you just say what I thought you did? You have no taste too? This is too bizarre. They at Wake Forrest Hospital Taste Center {only a few in the USA} told me after 8 hrs of testing, that I must have had a virus that affected my smell ie no taste. Well, I can too smell! They told me to first try prednisone starting at 60mg a day and decreasing it over 2 weeks to see if it came back. Supposedly this virus affected the nerves in my nose and they are the only nerves that can regrow. If that didn'lt work then take Theophylline for 4-6mths. That's where I drew the line. This drug is used for difficulty breathing, and causes very bad anxiety. I certainly don't need that! That's my predominant symptom-anxiety. If I interpreted your message correctly, please feel free to BabbleMail me. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Troubled1 on February 11, 2005, at 22:31:10
In reply to Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by jp on October 24, 1999, at 14:59:14
During my internet research, Armour Thyroid was mentioned a lot as was the fact that most drs are reluctant to use it since it is an animal product, etc. I did find one article,however, that stated that there is a synthetic T3 available. Doc must be very knowledgeable re proper amt's of T3 and T4 to prescribe. Apparently, if you are given T3, they need to reduce your T4 dosage. It is likely impossible to do with Armour as I'm assuming that both T3 and T4 exist together as one unit. Perhaps that's why some feel they are getting too much T3 on Armour. I dug out my research articles that I will be taking with me to my endo next week. For those who wish to read them, here are the addresses:
www.thyroid.ca/Articles/neweng.html and
http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/short/340/6/424
Also, check out www.thyroid.org and look under the frequently asked questions section for thyroid hormone treatment. It discusses T3 as well. Good luck.Karen
Posted by Blucky on February 11, 2005, at 22:42:31
In reply to Re: my Effexor experience, posted by woodie on February 10, 2005, at 13:45:30
Getting ready to get off this zombie drug and have read many of the posts on here confirming my fears...this is gonna be hard. I have not heard anyone really say how long the symptoms last though???? I guess people just stop posting once their syptoms are gone?
Posted by winddancer on February 12, 2005, at 1:04:58
In reply to Re: Thyroid testing » winddancer, posted by Phillipa on February 11, 2005, at 20:41:46
Phillipa
It seems that my no taste is related to the tingling that I feel in my mouth and on my tongue since taking effexor. I certainly hope the feeling and taste comes back. It seems like from your post that the drs just want to keep adding drugs to counteract the symptoms of the last drug, instead of finding ways of eliminating the first drug. I really do think we need to be looking to more holistic healers to break into this viscious cycle that western medicine gets us on.winddancer
Posted by dancingstar on February 12, 2005, at 10:37:27
In reply to Re: Armour Thyroid, posted by Troubled1 on February 11, 2005, at 22:31:10
My Harvard-trained, somewhat holistic, integrative medicine/internist began to test my thyroid because I couldn't get my weight to drop from around 150 to my more natural 125-135 and because I was exceedingly sleepy and in severe pain. At the time I was still exercising regularly and taught several classes at gyms (for fun, not profit.)
He has always preferred Armour thyroid, and I have had very good results with it, though I didn't really lose weight nor truly get my energy back until after I stopped taking EffexorXR. Nothing, absolutely nothing, would help me with those problems, and I had no idea what was wrong with me...nor did he as my bloodwork was normal besides the thyroid.
Yep, Armour thyroid is an animal product, but it's been around forever, and with all of the problems associated with the newer drugs, I would rather take the ones that have been on the market for 25 or more years if I have to take any drugs at all. From what I can tell, most of the holistic docs, lean towards Armour, and all I can say is that it works for me, though as with all things, I'm sure it does not work for everyone.
Posted by dancingstar on February 12, 2005, at 10:44:23
In reply to Why worst fears realized, posted by Blucky on February 11, 2005, at 22:42:31
I did it. You might as well expect the best because the reactions seem to vary from person to person. For some people it only takes a week to recover, but from what I hear it's best to cut back slowly and give your body a chance to adjust to the change.
Best of luck to you!
Posted by woodie on February 12, 2005, at 12:07:36
In reply to Why worst fears realized, posted by Blucky on February 11, 2005, at 22:42:31
I am certainly not an expert, but in both my previous attempts at stopping, most of the 'body' symptoms (nausea, dizziness, generally feeling like you're back in the 60's on a bad acid trip) dissipated to next to nil after about two weeks (that was after a veeerrry slow tapering of the dose over a couple months). The bit that destroyed me was the emotional meltdown that happened after most of the physical stuff passed. I didn't realize that a 'rebound depression' was part of the withdrawal. When I started crying and couldn't stop for days, I figured I must really need this drug. Even knowing, I'm not sure I will be able to keep from going back on it. The meltdown is completely debilitating and downright scary.
That's probably not much help...sorry. I am on my third try, having a tougher time with the physical weirdnesses, but coping. I am trying to use some of the supplements and remedies that have been suggested here, and they seem to help. If it would help you to know what may be down the road for you, and the timeline I'm experiencing, I'd be happy to keep you posted.
Currently, I'm taking a little tiny bit of a 37.5 mg tablet (about 1/8th of it) daily. I started out on 75 mg XR about nine weeks ago, so that's how long it's taken so far.
I am so thankful for the information, support and sense of community provided by the people who are part of this site.
Best of luck to you and to everyone taking this journey.
Posted by dancingstar on February 12, 2005, at 12:17:39
In reply to Re: Why worst fears realized » Blucky, posted by woodie on February 12, 2005, at 12:07:36
It just goes to show how different we all are; for me it was and is the physical problems. I didn't know that all of my physical problems were related to Effexor until I stopped taking it and got so sick, which forced me to do all the research.
But I never took the drug for depression. It did cause me to have a bit of it, though.
This won't make you feel much better, but you might find it helpful. If not, I'm sure I can find other links :-) :
Posted by dancingstar on February 12, 2005, at 20:14:00
In reply to Re: Comments for all who've written since Feb. 5/05 » corafree, posted by Phillipa on February 10, 2005, at 16:59:25
I'd be willing to bet that it has to do with Effexor, but I don't understand why it has that sort of reaction. It is a very powerful drug.
Here is why I say this: During the time I was on Effexor, I was prone to all sorts of bizarre infections that led me to think that I had auto-immune difficulties...but I don't. Now I no longer get any kind of infections. It only happened during the time I was on Effexor, and it's gone now. I had to take mega-antibiotics to cure these things. It scared me half to death cause I had no idea what was wrong with my body. Even my face has slimmed back down since I've stopped taking the drug. My whole body has changed. If I had any idea that I was so senstive to it, I would have cut it out years ago.
Posted by Daky on February 12, 2005, at 20:39:06
In reply to Re: Armour Thyroid, posted by Troubled1 on February 11, 2005, at 22:31:10
The synthetic T3 is called Cytomel. It is approximately 4 times more potent than T4 so many docs will reduce the T4 meds when introducing Cytomel.
Posted by tatarka on February 12, 2005, at 20:43:09
In reply to Re: Why worst fears realized, posted by dancingstar on February 12, 2005, at 12:17:39
Thank you for this link - i found there some interesting info, including this link where I found some products that help to elevate mood, balance immune system and so on. I'm just a bit concerned about the prices there - could you take a look?
P.S.: Thanks for all your help. Your postings made me worried about what i'm doing with my body :-) I'm second day tappering off Effexor - so far so good, just a headache and nightmare last night, but I had them on Effexor too. I'm planning to take a tab (I'm on 75mg) when I'll feel like can't take it anymore and then continue getting off this thing until I'll get really sick again, - will take a tab again and so on, until I'll be free :-)
Posted by tatarka on February 12, 2005, at 20:44:36
In reply to Re: Why worst fears realized » dancingstar, posted by tatarka on February 12, 2005, at 20:43:09
https://www.immunesupport.com/shop/Contents.cfm/category/Whey/?PID=1494561&AID=9782258
Posted by Troubled1 on February 12, 2005, at 21:04:01
In reply to Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by jp on October 24, 1999, at 14:59:14
Sorry I haven't updated lately re my effexor withdrawal as I've been caught up in the hypothyroid discussions. I've lost track of how many days it's been since I went cold turkey after reducing dose of 225 to 75 (I think it's been about 6 days now). After about 3 days on 75,even though I was feeling a bit dizzy and nauseous, I just threw my effexor in the garbage. Read my above posts re how I felt for first few days. Since last post re that, my irritability has improved but not completely gone away. It takes a really annoying person to set it off though. Doesn't seem to be there consistently i.e. I'm not looking for a target, I prefer to be tranquil, but a certain family member who has been emotionally abusive throughout my whole life, will send me into a screaming match easily. Perhaps I should have done more of this before instead of bottling it up and getting sick over it. The interesting thing about the withdrawal symptoms is that I feel a bit differently each day. It is very strange. First just physically sick, then more irritable, then really climbing the walls restlessness, but this could be alleviated by simply taking a short drive to the store. Once I returned home, I could relax. Today, after an argument with above person, I am feeling extreme anger towards this person (with good reason). Physically, I am still nauseous and a bit dizzy but Gravol and eating regularly keeps this under control. The only mood-related symptom that seems to be consistent so far is crying. I am crying far more easily than I had been but have not retreated into the heavy duty depression that caused me to be placed on Effexor originally. I will NEVER go back on Effexor. I would be far more willing to go back on Zoloft or Welbutrin as neither of these caused the horrific physical problems for me that Effexor has. I was not the least bit fatigued or foggy on the others, I just didn't feel that my depression was lifted as much as should be possible, although, my mood did improve on them. Of course, since each person is different, these drugs may be worse for others than Effexor. Can't see how you can get much worse than Effexor side effects, though. I will be seeing a new GP next week who hasn't been out of med school that long and is just opening up her own practice here. I am very interested in seeing what she recommends for my condition as opposed to my older, more experienced doc who didn't want to listen to me when I suggested that my physical symptoms may be due to Effexor or my hypothyroidism. I was so ticked off at him that I didn't even consult him re going off Effexor. He doesn't even know yet. Anyway, best of luck with getting off Effexor. Don't be too tempted to go back on just because withdrawal is difficult. You will never know for sure what is the drug and what is you naturally until Effexor is completely out of your system. I've heard that it could take about a month after completely being off of it to feel "normal" again. If you are feeling unable to cope or God forbid, suicidal, seek emergency help. They can likely give you something other than Effexor to take edge off. Remember, we are all here for you as well to help you through. Take care of yourself and keep us updated, please.
Karen
Posted by dancingstar on February 13, 2005, at 0:21:19
In reply to Re: Why worst fears realized » dancingstar, posted by tatarka on February 12, 2005, at 20:43:09
Hey Tartaka,
Yes, they say that I make people worry about that sort of thing around here. I'm glad. I just want people to do very careful research before taking such a powerful drug. If someone has very severe depression, this drug may be good for them, but I'm not convinced.
I read something...and now I cannot find it to save my life, but I'm sure it will turn up again. Anyway, it showed some statisitcs about how all of these antidepressants were pretty bogus at ultimately relieving depression for more than a matter of weeks. The author of this article felt that pdocs leaned way too heavily on them. The thing I have a problem with is how do we know after we've taken a drug for a while whether or not it is doing us any good or whether it has instead begun to cause us harm? I would never have suspected that Effexor was doing as much damage to me as it was doing, but I may be more sensitive than most. I don't know.
About the link, I wish I could help you; but I don't know anything about those products or what they normally cost. Maybe someone else here knows and can let you know. I'm really sorry.
About feeling terrible from the withdrawal, yep, some of us feel awful when we stop taking E, but I lived, and honest to goodness, no one could have felt worse than I did after I stopped taking Effexor. I thought I'd die at one point three weeks in. I'm pretty much okay now. Still have that prickly feeling whenever I get tense, a bit of colitis, and some neck pain...but I did it cold turkey without knowing any better, and like I say, I think I had it as bad as it gets. (There's rumour of a genetic component to the withdrawal drama, something about a "European gene.") My internist had not ever heard about this withdrawal issue either, and he no longer prescribes the drug, though he is not the orignal doctor that prescribed E to me.
The same thing happened to a lovely family practice doctor that I know. She was telling me just the other day that one of her patients could not stop taking Effexor; that every time she stopped, she got violently ill. This doctor, too, stopped prescribing it. And when I asked her about it, she also told me that the Wyeth rep told her that there is no withdrawal problem, no side effects. Right. One patient suffering was enough for her.
Hang in there...you will feel better, I promise!!
Bebe
Posted by tatarka on February 13, 2005, at 11:54:07
In reply to Re: Why worst fears realized » tatarka, posted by dancingstar on February 13, 2005, at 0:21:19
Hey Dancingstar! Thank you again for your help.
I figured that doctors are funny, at least in N.America. Since I was a kid I have some problems with my stomache - chronically extremelly low accidity (close to nil), and as a result - chronic gastritis, and as a result - sensitive stomache, I cant eat certain products (like nuts, oily stuff), I'm a vegetarian (not because of this, but it helped to reduce my stomache problems). In a country where I'm from (Russia), docs like to treat imagined problems very much, I was in the hospitals for a investigation of my problems about 10 times. They also like to prescribe us antibiotics for any reason, - I've taken them a lot when I was a kid often just to treat a cold. As a result, my immune system suffered, and I have a chronic laryngitis. They dont prescribe antidepressants so often though in Russia. At the same time, I'm a very energetic person by nature, in spite of all this sh... I was always into a sport, taught dance and aerobics for several years as an additional part-time job... Its funny because at the same time I was doing sports, doctors prescribed me to avoid of too much of physical activity (good thing that my dad was professional sportsman). Anyway, now, in Canada, when I told my psychiatrist (he has about 25 years of practice!), at the time he prescribed me antidep's that I have some chronic stomache problems, he completelly ignored it and told me that as long as I take them with food I'll be fine. When I started often to feel sick, of course I was sure that these drugs can be a reason, and told my doc about it. He was surprised and while I was in his office started a search in some huge book, after this he concluded that my sweat can be because of E, but not stomache problems. Since I felt better emotionally, I preferred to listen to him rather to my instincts and info I already found here. Now I'm in doubt: should I continue use his services, or should I find another doc? You can't help me on this one, Dancingstar, cuz you dont have psychological problems, but I still do and need somebody to talk to. I dont need those drugs, I think (at least not anymore, I feel much more stable since i started taking them: first - Remeron and Wellbutrin, and then E and Wellbutrin), but conversation session helped me even more, and I still need them. But it's a very hard work - to open your heart to the new person, that's why I'm stuck with my old one...
Sorry for this long passage, - just wanted to show how different they treat us, I guess, depending what kind of drugs are more profitable to sale: antibiotics in Russia and antidepressants in Canada :-)
Last night I hada horrible nightmares, it was bad, I was in a river of sweat (excuse the details), and I wasn't able to go to the washroom without my husband - so much I was freaked out! I was scared even of my husband. The thing that were in my dreams last night were so unusual and at the same time very real, some of them reminded of my old thoughts that I had or my old fantasies, some were just and echo of the part of the movie I saw recently (American version of "Solyaris" with George Clooney :-) - they made it a banal chiller). Anyway, maybe I dont have that "European Gene" but I still didnt throw up, but I just feel very tired and sick, have a slight headache and cant get anything done. I also feel like I'm recovering after a narcosis.
Anyway, I decided from now on listen to my body and my instincts and try not to take any synthetic drugs at all. Once I'll get off from an E I'll try to get rid of Wellbutrin as well. I THOUGHT THAT THEY WILL HELP TO SOLVE MY PROBLEMS BUT INSTEAD THEY JUST HELPED TO IGNORE THEM.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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