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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by AMD on October 10, 2004, at 3:12:58
Folks,
I was feeling fine yesterday, but got home to find my stepmom had turned on the self-cleaning oven feature of her new electric GE profile. It reeked. Anyhow, I didn't think much of it, and worked on my laptop in the living room for an hour or so before leaving to get some food.
Our kitchen is adjacent to the living room, and the patio door was open during the self-cleaning cycle. (It's about 15 feel from the kitchen.) That was the only ventalation.
What was that smell and is it dangerous?
Also, today I go online and find that CO is produced by electric ovens in self-cleaning cycle, and now I'm freaked out I was exposed yesterday -- some pages say exposure can be as high as 200 ppm, which is extremely toxic. I've had a headache today and my eyes have been bothering me. Is this related? Is it in my head?
HELP! I'm freaking out :( :( :(
I HATE chemicals, pollution in the house, and I'm pissed off that my stepmom put us in "danger," but not properly using the self-cleaning feature.
a
Posted by chemist on October 10, 2004, at 4:00:32
In reply to HELP! carbon monoxide, self-cleaning oven chemist?, posted by AMD on October 10, 2004, at 3:12:58
> Folks,
>
> I was feeling fine yesterday, but got home to find my stepmom had turned on the self-cleaning oven feature of her new electric GE profile. It reeked. Anyhow, I didn't think much of it, and worked on my laptop in the living room for an hour or so before leaving to get some food.
>
> Our kitchen is adjacent to the living room, and the patio door was open during the self-cleaning cycle. (It's about 15 feel from the kitchen.) That was the only ventalation.
>
> What was that smell and is it dangerous?
>
> Also, today I go online and find that CO is produced by electric ovens in self-cleaning cycle, and now I'm freaked out I was exposed yesterday -- some pages say exposure can be as high as 200 ppm, which is extremely toxic. I've had a headache today and my eyes have been bothering me. Is this related? Is it in my head?
>
> HELP! I'm freaking out :( :( :(
>
> I HATE chemicals, pollution in the house, and I'm pissed off that my stepmom put us in "danger," but not properly using the self-cleaning feature.
>
>
> ahello there, chemist here. it wouldn't be the same without you. please do not worry yourself about the carbon monoxide produced during a self-cleaning phase of an electric oven, especially a new-model one that is likely to be of relatively high-quality. what you smell when the temperature is increased are the remnants of food items that have remained inside the oven proper. increasing the temperature in an oxygen atmosphere results in the combustion of the carbon, nitrogen, oxygen, and hydrogen-rich (and lesser amounts of sulfur and other elements in various states of oxidation) molecules to be converted larely to products heavy in carbon dioxide and water concentrations. the smells are indicative of what foods were dripping opon the racks in the oven and the lower surface in the oven. you have nothing to worry about. if you want to worry, consider the food items themselves and what natural or added products lie therein and under thermal stress are transformed into things that might be dangerous. however, the food-consuming populace of the world partaking in cooking foodstuffs before eating has not been in decline due to heath effects directly linked to compounds other than fats, oils, and cholesterol, to name a few usual suspects. finally, an electric oven poses less threat of poisoning from partially-combusted gases than does a natural gas-fired stove/oven, and although methane is oderless, the suppliers of natural gas do add a trace of hydrogen sulfide that indicates a leak. the design of the burners themselves are implicated in the degree of combustion of the natural gas, and adequate ventilation is recommended for numerous reasons unrelated to toxic gas buildup. In short, worry not and good to see you back on-line, AMD. be well, and i wish you all the best, chemist
Posted by AMD on October 10, 2004, at 4:59:06
In reply to Re: HELP! carbon monoxide, self-cleaning oven chemist? » AMD, posted by chemist on October 10, 2004, at 4:00:32
Thanks chemist -- I am filling my Zoloft prescription tomorrow, which I hope further helps with my obsessions. These ups and downs kill me, and the constant worry is probably the real "brain damage." Sometimes I get these images of acid or chemicals (or CO!) eating away at my brain, and I convince myself of them to the point where I feel symptoms. So what should have been a relaxing day with an old friend turned into a day of constant distractions as my mind drifted back and forth between our conversation and the fear of impending cognitive dysfunction, difficulty concentrating, walking, etc. Well, I'm certainly having the difficulty concentrating... I spent four hours looking up "electric oven" "self cleaning" and "carbon monoxide" links ... found a couple references referring to 200 ppm for some self-cleaning cycles, but only anecdotal, and one apparently well-founded study concluding an 8 ppm emission from electrical oven self-cleaning. Well, the patio door /was/ open...
a
Posted by AMD on October 11, 2004, at 0:39:42
In reply to Re: HELP! carbon monoxide, self-cleaning oven chemist? » AMD, posted by chemist on October 10, 2004, at 4:00:32
Still going insane here, chem. :-(
I started Zoloft today (50 mg) on top of my 80 mg Celexa and 200 mg Lamictal. Also popped 600 mg Trileptal tonight to try to bring me down a bit, because I am on the verge of anxiety meltdown over this b.s. I'm waiting for my memory to go, for me to start wobbling all over the place. How would I know for sure I'm ok (well, OK from the CO). I wish I could just relax, but that not-knowing is killing me. All from a self-cleaning electric oven. Would there be any signs? What causes the CO I've read about if it's not the heat of the oven? The food burning? Would there have been smoke........
:-(
a
Posted by chemist on October 11, 2004, at 0:49:30
In reply to Re: HELP! carbon monoxide, self-cleaning oven chemist?, posted by AMD on October 11, 2004, at 0:39:42
hello there, chemist here. STOP IT. really, STOP IT. you have my personal assurance as a real chemist who really knows about combustion and carbon monoxide and although i am not a fan of electric ranges (i prefer gas), i can assure you that your fears are entirely unfounded. please, please, please stop. this is not good for either of us. we have to move along, yes? do not worry about it, just don't touch the hot surface, you'll burn yourself. no carbon monoxide, i promise. all the best, chemist
> Still going insane here, chem. :-(
>
> I started Zoloft today (50 mg) on top of my 80 mg Celexa and 200 mg Lamictal. Also popped 600 mg Trileptal tonight to try to bring me down a bit, because I am on the verge of anxiety meltdown over this b.s. I'm waiting for my memory to go, for me to start wobbling all over the place. How would I know for sure I'm ok (well, OK from the CO). I wish I could just relax, but that not-knowing is killing me. All from a self-cleaning electric oven. Would there be any signs? What causes the CO I've read about if it's not the heat of the oven? The food burning? Would there have been smoke........
>
> :-(
>
> a
Posted by AMD on October 11, 2004, at 0:59:16
In reply to Re: HELP! carbon monoxide, self-cleaning oven chemist? » AMD, posted by chemist on October 11, 2004, at 0:49:30
OK, I will. Thanks chemist. I'm trying to take my mind off it and to focus on Oracle internals ;)
Hey, why don't you prefer electric ranges? I like gas ranges, too.
a
Posted by chemist on October 11, 2004, at 7:38:49
In reply to Re: HELP! carbon monoxide, self-cleaning oven chemist?, posted by AMD on October 11, 2004, at 0:59:16
> OK, I will. Thanks chemist. I'm trying to take my mind off it and to focus on Oracle internals ;)
>
> Hey, why don't you prefer electric ranges? I like gas ranges, too.
>
> ahello there, chemist here....better control of the flame on the range, wouldn't you agree? and natural convenction without need of assist in the oven proper. i'll take a vulcan or viking over any electric any day. and i would also take carbon monoxide poisoning over a bout of oracle DB poisoning given the choice...be well, and of course all the best, chemist
Posted by boomarang on October 11, 2004, at 10:49:23
In reply to Re: HELP! carbon monoxide, self-cleaning oven chemist? » AMD, posted by chemist on October 11, 2004, at 7:38:49
Posted by AMD on October 11, 2004, at 14:26:01
In reply to Re: HELP! carbon monoxide, self-cleaning oven chemist? » AMD, posted by chemist on October 11, 2004, at 7:38:49
Chemist,
Follow-up on the obsessions.
I can feel myself getting manic -- with the hyper obsession over this CO stuff, and now my mind racing a bit. Plus I am feeling a little depressed, unable to focus.
Well, I'm taking Celexa 80 mg and Lamictal 200 mg, all in the morning. My pdoc (highly respected in the field) added Zoloft, 25 mg, which I just started yesterday.
I'm wondering -- is this a good choice? He had also suggested Geodon or Seroquel. The problem is I've had pretty yucky reactions to Risperdal and Zyprexa -- both made me feel VERY cognitively blunted, and frankly just out of it -- and I'm a bit afraid of the atypicals now. I also tried Trileptal, which seemed to help at first, but left me feeling tired and absolutely slaughtered my memory and concentration skills.
Right now I feel "stupid" and thus although I have convinced myself it's not the CO, I can't figure out why. The depression?
Anyhow, do you know anything other than the SSRI's (of which I'm now taking two) that can level me out, make me think /more/ clearly as opposed to completely slowing me down, and work relatively quickly? Or am I asking for the wonder drug here? ;-)
Thanks for your input.
Adam
Posted by AuntieMel on October 11, 2004, at 15:17:59
In reply to Re: HELP! carbon monoxide, self-cleaning oven chemist?, posted by AMD on October 11, 2004, at 0:59:16
The new ovens recommend running the self clean cycle soon after getting the oven. They also STRONGLY recommend doing this with the windows open.
From experience - the smell is overpowering and it can make you wonder what the heck is in it and if it can hurt you. But when I put my new oven through the clean cycle (with the windows open) I had a bird in the next room. The bird survived, so the air must not have been too bad.
They do put canaries in mines to test for just this type thing.....
Posted by chemist on October 11, 2004, at 19:29:32
In reply to Re: glad to see you here chemist! (nm), posted by boomarang on October 11, 2004, at 10:49:23
Posted by chemist on October 11, 2004, at 19:39:41
In reply to Re: HELP! carbon monoxide, self-cleaning oven chemist? » chemist, posted by AMD on October 11, 2004, at 14:26:01
hello again adam...i am of the mind that dulling with the atypical APs is not to your benefit, and i would suspect that the lamictal is the culprit for any cognitive dulling in the present case. however, the celexa seems a bit on the high-end of the dosing spectrum: i do not have experience other than a brief one with a low dose - if i recall, perhaps 20 to 40 mg for a few weeks, and that hardly qualifies in my mind as giving it a fair shake - and wonder if the celexa/lamictal combo is synergistic for hypomania? you'll have to ask the professionals about that, and i do believe that the high dose celexa has been mentioned on this board in my brief time here. check with the usual suspects. i am unaware of any added benefit from the zoloft at the dose level you report. if you want to clear the cobwebs, you might look into a cholinesterase inhibitor at a low dose, and i do recall some anectodal evidence in re: mood stabilization, although i will not go out on a limb on that one. and do listen to auntie mel, that electric range bake-out period can tarnish the air, and even more so if you fail to remove that thin sheen of plastic usually covering the surfaces inside and out, of glass.....be well, all the best, and do look into the celexa end of things......chemist
> Chemist,
>
> Follow-up on the obsessions.
>
> I can feel myself getting manic -- with the hyper obsession over this CO stuff, and now my mind racing a bit. Plus I am feeling a little depressed, unable to focus.
>
> Well, I'm taking Celexa 80 mg and Lamictal 200 mg, all in the morning. My pdoc (highly respected in the field) added Zoloft, 25 mg, which I just started yesterday.
>
> I'm wondering -- is this a good choice? He had also suggested Geodon or Seroquel. The problem is I've had pretty yucky reactions to Risperdal and Zyprexa -- both made me feel VERY cognitively blunted, and frankly just out of it -- and I'm a bit afraid of the atypicals now. I also tried Trileptal, which seemed to help at first, but left me feeling tired and absolutely slaughtered my memory and concentration skills.
>
> Right now I feel "stupid" and thus although I have convinced myself it's not the CO, I can't figure out why. The depression?
>
> Anyhow, do you know anything other than the SSRI's (of which I'm now taking two) that can level me out, make me think /more/ clearly as opposed to completely slowing me down, and work relatively quickly? Or am I asking for the wonder drug here? ;-)
>
> Thanks for your input.
>
> Adam
>
>
>
>
Posted by chemist on October 11, 2004, at 19:40:28
In reply to Re: carbon monoxide, self-cleaning oven » AMD, posted by AuntieMel on October 11, 2004, at 15:17:59
Posted by AMD on October 11, 2004, at 21:38:25
In reply to Re: carbon monoxide, self-cleaning oven » AMD, posted by AuntieMel on October 11, 2004, at 15:17:59
Just great -- we had the patio door open in the living room, which is directly connected to the kitchen -- but no other ventilation. I wish these guys would explicitly tell you the danger.
According the GE literature, "a very small amount of carbon monoxide" is emitted during the self-cleaning phase. The more I read about this, the more I think self-cleaning == brain death. And yet, I'm sure I'm not alone in having self-cleaned with no ventilation. How many people do you think actually read the instructions? I'd be interested in knowing what exactly "very small" means in terms of ppm.
Anyhow -- I'm most worried about the CO, not so much any other carcinogens or toxins unhealthy to birds.
Bottom line continues to be: whether or not I did suffer damage, I shouldn't obsess over it. I think, with 99% confidence, that the trouble I'm having with attention and the depression is related to my negative thoughts more than any actual toxins.
In any event, I'm beginning to think the only way I'll convince myself I'm OK is to buy a carbon monoxide detector and measure the CO in the air during a test self-cleaning run.
a
Posted by Dr. Bob on October 12, 2004, at 19:43:22
In reply to Re: carbon monoxide, self-cleaning oven » AuntieMel, posted by AMD on October 11, 2004, at 21:38:25
> Just great -- we had the patio door open in the living room, which is directly connected to the kitchen -- but no other ventilation...
Sorry to interrupt, but I'd like to redirect follow-ups regarding ovens to Psycho-Babble Health. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/health/20041005/msgs/402350.html
Thanks,
Bob
This is the end of the thread.
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