![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 5 to 29 of 60. Go back in thread:
Posted by mattw84 on September 30, 2004, at 3:55:43
In reply to Dexedrine Spanuals Vs Adderall vs Ritalin, posted by geno on September 29, 2004, at 17:33:07
Wow, I have ADD and I must say that was amazingly long. I think I went to the bathroom like 4 times!
I was a heroin addict for almost a year and can somewhat relate to your story... I think. After REALIZING what I was doing to myself I was finally able to quit. I've also had past experience abusing stimulants, methamphetamine namely. Amphetamine psychosis is no joke, and while you might be enjoying it now -- this all will catch up in the long run. Stimulants are much moreso addictive than opoids, and I am guessing you count down the time to the next dose. Dexedrine is much more potent than adderall, and I would highly recommend not seeking it. I hate to sound insulting, but I agree completely with Utopizen. Nobody means any harm in saying so, but that is honest advice. My recommendation is the same, I would seek professional help; there is absolutely no shame in doing so. Amphetamines have neurotoxic effects, especially at high doses. It is definately in your best interest to seek full drug rehabilitation. If you refuse to seek help, I would in the least recommend tapering the dose down as it would seem that you are plenty stimulated.
I find it difficult to fathom why any doctor would treat someone for a substance abuse problem, and simultaneously prescribe a Schedule II controlled substance to the same addict. In California (and probably other states) this is illegal.
Best Wishes
Matt
Posted by thug life on September 30, 2004, at 8:59:00
In reply to Amphetamine Psychosis: no shame in acceptance » geno, posted by utopizen on September 29, 2004, at 18:19:27
> If you want to know what people are honestly thinking after you wrote this-- and I say not to criticize your meds or you in any way but am saying this out of concern for your well-being-- your dose may be a wee bit high.
First,I would like to say,Utopizen,This is very unkind treatment you gave Geno.You are suggesting "what people are honestly thinking"....You are creating a subjective opinion because I dont think what you said.
> If you want to know what others are thinking of your writing, (or at least me) it's this: you are less than coherent, to say things mildly. You are writing excessively, and presume may even be talking a bit around your friends, too.
How is he less than coherent? To add in "to say things midly" is very much an insult to me.How was his writing excessive? Whats wrong with expressing your feelings on a board for support? Honestly how long did it take you to read it? If you thought it was too long,why did you keep reading? Also to me he was very coherent knowing about medication and what actions they preform,instead of being a victim of a prescription writer,he is taking the time to do research and pour his heart on this board.Why cant he have a long post? Maybe thats who he is as a person.Its like when a teacher says"any questions" then when you start asking they get annoyed and try to cut you off.
> Amphetamine psychosis is a very serious problem, and it doesn't seem immediately likely to you that you have it. Only qualified medical experts may determine such a thing. I went in the hospital over it myself, and I was just like you-- wrote excessively about meds, talked to my doc a lot about my meds- etc. But I didn't have "psychotic episodes" or hallucinations per say. But I later realize now, after visiting a mental hospital, that I did in fact have amphetamine psychosis.>
We have to take into consideration other peoples feelings with our words.By suggesting Psychosis to someone with anxiety isnt the best thing to do.I wish you wouldve chosen your wording more carefully.
> First, my advice is to do what I did, and get off the stuff you're on and go on something tamer like Ritalin and lower that to half of whatever you have convinced yourself is "effective" and take that.>He said he was on Ritalin and didn't do any good....so why would you put him on that? How has he convinced himself of anything? You are making assumptions and possibly might be making his situation worse.You could of gotten your point across by using less assumptions,took into consideration his anxiety,criticizing him for long posts when he has social anxiety....possibly now making him hold his thoughts and emotions back on a board which very unique and helpful.
> Don't worry. If a stimulant doesn't "work" or is "effective" for you in your mind, just accept that you're not Superman and be content with the fact that ADHD doesn't permit you to live as a super hero.>
What does this even mean? If something you feel isnt working...why take it? There are tons of stories on Toxic Psychiatry because instead of treating the patient,they treat you from a book and see you for 1 hour then forget about you.Meanwhile people like Geno have their own lives to live and they know themselves so...why take somethimg which you feel no improvement on? Why should you put limitations on one's ability to recover?> I accept this, although it took me a while to. We're smart, I know, so we all think we need to be super heros despite our severe attention deficits, but the reality is that WILL drive us insane.>
Once again you are comparing your situation to Geno,when in fact you might not have nothing in common what so ever.We are all different....if we have add or adhd,its wrong to assume we all act the same or feel the same.
> Second, call your doc so he can arrange to admit you to the nearest psychiatric hospital he have privileges to send you. I did it. There's no shame in this. It in the long run, it'll help you. Put aside your immediate responsibilities. You owe yourself the relief.>
Why assume he needs to be admitted? On what grounds? His post was long?
> I only say this because I want to be honest, and not pretend as though your post doesn't concern me about your well being (like I'm sure many posters would, and I'm sure these posters will "correct me" and such, but I wish someone told me the honest truth of what was on their minds all along before it was too late).>
How are you being honest when you are being subjective in this matter.Just because you might have had experiences in your life doesnt mean they are the same as his.Knowing of his anxiety problems and his wearing his heart on his sleeve...I wish you wouldve worded things differently and thought about his feelings and problems.I understand honesty but would you go to someone overweight and say"You are very obese,fat etc." That is going to do more damage than good....
Posted by utopizen on September 30, 2004, at 9:12:49
In reply to Re: Amphetamine Psychosis: utopizen, posted by thug life on September 30, 2004, at 8:59:00
>
You admit he is acutely suffering from anxiety, yet you think if he want to a psychiatric hospital he would, what exactly? Find too much relief from his woes? You asked me what basis he has for seeking out a hospital. Yet you also aknowledge he is severely suffering inside.
You're trying to paint me as the one who's not sympathetic to his anxiety, while also trying to convince me he couldn't use relief from his anxiety.
You're the one who wants him to avoid relief, not me. I actually care about him.
Posted by utopizen on September 30, 2004, at 9:26:29
In reply to Dexedrine Spanuals Vs Adderall vs Ritalin, posted by geno on September 29, 2004, at 17:33:07
geno,
While "thug life" thinks you have anxiety, it seems that he thinks you don't deserve relief from it at all. I do, because I've suffered as you have.
What you are discovering, because you're smart, is that you can absorb knowledge on very particular topics like psychopharmacology like it's water. Yet in other subjects, you probably have difficulty concentrating and completing. And you also experience a lot of worries when you are around others. This has led you to depressive thoughts, where you are at now. And you often are driven to obsess over these problems in a desperate attempt to find relief from them, but as you know, this is tremendously burdening you.
Why do I know this? Yes, "I'm assuming," or inferring, as the correct word is. It's because I have what is called Asperger's Syndrome, something you may want to look into.
While you're an adult now, so you can detect nonverbal expressions others give you today with ease, it is likely that you may not have been able to early on in your development.
This led to difficulties at school for you, as while you were smart, you couldn't understand why it was people led you to worry and that you had difficulty adjusting with your peers.
Counseling, along with CBT, and brief hospitalization to get a head start, can give you relief from your anxiety, and will all help to relieve you of the worry that ADD and social anxiety are causing you.
You don't need to tolerate the level of anxiety you are experiencing. There is no shame in asking for relief from your doctor, who can admit you to a nearby hospital where a team of experts are ready to give you the relief you deserve now.
There are good days ahead for you, if you request them.
Posted by thug life on September 30, 2004, at 10:55:52
In reply to Re: Amphetamine Psychosis: utopizen, posted by utopizen on September 30, 2004, at 9:12:49
> You admit he is acutely suffering from anxiety, yet you think if he want to a psychiatric hospital he would, what exactly? Find too much relief from his woes? You asked me what basis he has for seeking out a hospital. Yet you also aknowledge he is severely suffering inside.>Mr or Ms.Utopizen,
When did I ever admit he was suffering from anxiety? I said he had anxiety but I never said suffer.When did I say according to you "I ackowledge the fact he is severvely suffering inside"? I am not trying to start a fight between you and I.I was just saying that maybe you shouldve worded things differently.Just because someone does have anxiety,why should he seek refuge in a psych ward? You think that is the only way to handle anxiety? He never even said he couldnt function because of anxiety.That wasnt even his topic. He stated he is seeing someone and they would be the one qualified to make that call.He is on Klonopin,I didnt find him incoherent or long winded.To me he was seeking advice about medication between adderall and Dexedrine.I have had severe panic disorder,anxiety,depression...you name it I was labled it.I have dealt with vicodin,which is the worst thing to tell anybody.I thought I would do good and tell people my problem so if they were offered it for a toothache or whatever they would stay away from it but....I was labeled a drug addict behind my back.And yes I am on 60 mgs of Adderall Xr and 50 mgs of Dexedrine a day also...a total of 110 mgs.I have never had psychosis or any problems.I know a lot about all drugs,and Amp's get a bad reputation.They have been researched longer than penicillin and honestly crystal meth or meth amp aside,where are all the horrible side effects? Where is all the Adderall,Ritalin,and Dexedrine Psychosis cases in the ER'S or anywhere in general? Remember not meth amp.Why can you give these drugs to little kids and see no problems or deadly side effects? Compared to benzos and ssri's...the withdrawl syndromes and addiction of these were far worse to me than anything.> You're trying to paint me as the one who's not sympathetic to his anxiety, while also trying to convince me he couldn't use relief from his anxiety.>
I never said you werent sympathetic,I said you maybe have legitamate concerns but words are very powerful.Maybe you should have thought first before reacting.I never said or implied you were trying to convince him to get no relief.1st you said he was incoherent,brought up amp psychosis,implying he was in denial,said he should try to be admitted into a hospital.Now anyone with even a little anxiety is going to question themselves if someone states what you did.All he was asking was advice about medication.How was I trying to convince you he couldnt use relief?I was implying know the facts about geno before jumping the gun.
> You're the one who wants him to avoid relief, not me. I actually care about him.>
How can you say that about me? What did I do for you to merit such an accusation? You are impyling I want to see him suffer? That is very hurtful towards me.He is seeing a Doctor,who will suggest and make recommendations.I want to be here not to label him as this or that.I want to speak positively,tell people and recognize the struggles theyve survived.I dont want to write people off and say you have this disorder and need this and that.To me thats up to a physician.But I can tell people they can rise above the labels,they are roses that grow from concrete,too many tears too many wasted years,People arent burdens and they do hurt but if you keep tryin maybe things will change and tomorrow always comes after the dark....I have read genos posts since he was on a bunch of meds....at one point I believe...Zoloft,Desipramine,ritalin,klonopin and remeron.Also why is it you refer to me as "thug life"? Why the quotation marks around my name? What are you implying? Do you even know what my name stands for? I dont want to fight,I dont want to be negative,I dont want to assume imply or hurt anyone....Just take a look at your posts and then what I wrote...objectively.Please don't get defensive and just see what I am saying.I wont say anything bad about you...ever.If you get that impression let me know and I'll explain myself.
Posted by utopizen on September 30, 2004, at 11:23:44
In reply to Re: Amphetamine Psychosis: utopizen, posted by thug life on September 30, 2004, at 10:55:52
Excessive use of language in writing is often an indication that one is also likewise using an excessive use of language in their speech around others. This is why amphetamines post such a great risk of "social disability." They can have, especially in patients with anxiety, an effect that causes them great embarassment if they were to go off the drug and realize what an embarassment they may have made for themselves because they talked so much to others. Their friends won't like them, etc.
That's my concern for geno. If he's writing this way, who's to say he's not talking this way around his friends too? Or his doctors? Or in public? Remember the scene of the amphetamine-using mother in "Requiem for a Dream" while she had amphetamine psychosis on the train? Do you have any idea how much I don't want geno to appear in any way like that mother? I'm using words like "amphetamine psychosis" not to scare him, but to let him realize immediately what others (like his doctors) might think of him if he doesn't manage his stresses seriously.
And frankly, you're right, it's up to his doctor to admit him to a hospital or not. But I just told him my experience to say, hey, I've been there, and it was a positive form of relief for me. It was comforting for me.
A lot of weight was lifted off my shoulders. Responsibilities I had at school were relieved from me after I told my dean I was "hospitalized," because they took that word to understand the extend of pain I was in.
I'm sorry if you feel this way about what I said, but I just think the thing geno needs to think right now is that he needs to be feel comfortable about being open with his doctor on how he feels and being comfortable about the prospect of hospitalization should he seek it.
But I have to say, it's much better to do what I did, and not "let your doctor determine if you get hospitalized" and instead voluntarily admit yourself. That way, you're granted greater freedoms when you decide to leave.
Posted by paulbwell on September 30, 2004, at 11:35:38
In reply to Re: Amphetamine Psychosis: utopizen, posted by utopizen on September 30, 2004, at 11:23:44
> Excessive use of language in writing is often an indication that one is also likewise using an excessive use of language in their speech around others. This is why amphetamines post such a great risk of "social disability." They can have, especially in patients with anxiety, an effect that causes them great embarassment if they were to go off the drug and realize what an embarassment they may have made for themselves because they talked so much to others. Their friends won't like them, etc.
>
> That's my concern for geno. If he's writing this way, who's to say he's not talking this way around his friends too? Or his doctors? Or in public? Remember the scene of the amphetamine-using mother in "Requiem for a Dream" while she had amphetamine psychosis on the train? Do you have any idea how much I don't want geno to appear in any way like that mother? I'm using words like "amphetamine psychosis" not to scare him, but to let him realize immediately what others (like his doctors) might think of him if he doesn't manage his stresses seriously.
>
> And frankly, you're right, it's up to his doctor to admit him to a hospital or not. But I just told him my experience to say, hey, I've been there, and it was a positive form of relief for me. It was comforting for me.
>
> A lot of weight was lifted off my shoulders. Responsibilities I had at school were relieved from me after I told my dean I was "hospitalized," because they took that word to understand the extend of pain I was in.
>
> I'm sorry if you feel this way about what I said, but I just think the thing geno needs to think right now is that he needs to be feel comfortable about being open with his doctor on how he feels and being comfortable about the prospect of hospitalization should he seek it.
>
> But I have to say, it's much better to do what I did, and not "let your doctor determine if you get hospitalized" and instead voluntarily admit yourself. That way, you're granted greater freedoms when you decide to leave.Hey Uto,
I enjoy your posts, but answer me this,1. if you had Amphetamine Psychosis, how on earth did you get put on Desoxyn (methamphetamine) The most potent and notorious Amphetamine there is?
Cheers
Posted by utopizen on September 30, 2004, at 13:21:06
In reply to Re: Amphetamine Psychosis: utopizen, posted by paulbwell on September 30, 2004, at 11:35:38
> Hey Uto,
> I enjoy your posts, but answer me this,
>
> 1. if you had Amphetamine Psychosis, how on earth did you get put on Desoxyn (methamphetamine) The most potent and notorious Amphetamine there is?
>
> Cheerswell, I'm not sure if it was amphetamine psychosis, but because my ADD is so bad that when I meet with doctors I often look off suddenly to the distance, they suspect I am hearing "voices." I've never heard "voices" in my life.
what did happen was me being upset with my doc because I wanted an antipsychotic for my social anxiety on top of my klonopin and he wouldn't give me on, so I was so irritable I slammed the door. It was a doc located at an outpatient wing of the hospital, so I decided to check myself into the in-patient clinic because I was shocked I did such a thing.
But I did talk excessively at the time, and um, I don't know. Whatever it was, it was a negative reaction to the stimulants, which my psychiatrist at the hospital wrote down on my release paper. He just entertained the idea of amphetamine psychosis to me, but I refuted it with saying "amphetamine psychosis is clinically indistinguishable from schitzophrenia."
But a negative reaction to a stimulant is worthy of seeking help, in any case. I'm not psychotic on the stuff, it's just that it antagonized existing life cicrumstances (school, incompletes) that made me feel hopeless and depressed and anxious. I've cleared things up, and am recovering steadily from my depression, and in a couple of weeks will be going on Klonopin again.
To geno: I strongly advise talking with your doc about Klonopin. It's great to combine with stimulants to control your worries and helps you out while you're trying to find more relief from an antidepressant.
A lot of us, obviously, are obsessive over our mental illnesses. Klonopin helps us tremendously with letting us cope with things, and not trying to feveriously research on hopes that we'll find a "cure." No cure awaits you, but relief is possible.
Posted by thug life on September 30, 2004, at 21:40:12
In reply to Re: Amphetamine Psychosis: utopizen, posted by utopizen on September 30, 2004, at 11:23:44
> Excessive use of language in writing is often an indication that one is also likewise using an excessive use of language in their speech around others. This is why amphetamines post such a great risk of "social disability." They can have, especially in patients with anxiety, an effect that causes them great embarassment if they were to go off the drug and realize what an embarassment they may have made for themselves because they talked so much to others. Their friends won't like them, etc.>
Excessive use of language is a sign for a lot of disorders such as bi polar etc.It is also a sign that maybe a person has a lot to say and feels he can come to this board to learn and get support.If you have a lot to say why not make it long? Why keep it short? Maybe he cant type very well? I know I cant and get accused of misunderstandings,but truth is...I am a finger pecker.What if he had a lot to say in a short period of time? I know Myself and others in that position that write long,excessive,wrong spellings,left out words etc.Check your own posts,you left out words,had mis-spelled words and you kept it short.Now what if your under time constraints?
Dr.Michael Liebowitz and other doctors are realizing that a dopamine defeciency might be resposible for social anxiety.Once you take dex or add,you do become more social...Whats wrong with that? Why do you think talking to people would leave you with embarassment? Friends wouldn't like you anymore? That just doesnt occur on Ritalin or Add or Dex.If so I would like to see scientific proof.If you are delusional or whatever in your sayings its because of an underlying problem.This isnt alcohol,Ghb,Extacsy,Crack,Cocaine,Crystal Meth etc...where you have no idea of your actions.Dexedrine and adderall are sch 2.If its so addicting and gets you high,why isnt there a market for it like the drugs I mentioned? Ask the normal person or addict about dexedrine spanules and they will say...what's that?
> That's my concern for geno. If he's writing this way, who's to say he's not talking this way around his friends too? Or his doctors? Or in public? Remember the scene of the amphetamine-using mother in "Requiem for a Dream" while she had amphetamine psychosis on the train? Do you have any idea how much I don't want geno to appear in any way like that mother? I'm using words like "amphetamine psychosis" not to scare him, but to let him realize immediately what others (like his doctors) might think of him if he doesn't manage his stresses seriously.>1st comparing life to a movie is unjust.I could say watch One flew over the cuckoos nest,Girl Interrupted etc.all movie that show negative things about mental institutions.Once again,what was wrong with his writings to warrant such comments.Specifically,if you could show them I would like to see.Was it a long post? who cares..I do thats why i read it.Was it fragmented a little? maybe...did he get his point across to me? Yes
Also where are the cases of amp psychosis? Ritalin,adderall and dexedrine not crystal meth.The med has been around since 1937,there should be tons of legitimate studies to show this.> And frankly, you're right, it's up to his doctor to admit him to a hospital or not. But I just told him my experience to say, hey, I've been there, and it was a positive form of relief for me. It was comforting for me.
A lot of weight was lifted off my shoulders. Responsibilities I had at school were relieved from me after I told my dean I was "hospitalized," because they took that word to understand the extend of pain I was in.>You clearly were not like this because of Dex,add or ritalin usage.To hear the words pain,responsibilities you had,weight of your shoulders makes me think you were misdiagnosed or given the wrong information about what you were going through.
> I'm sorry if you feel this way about what I said, but I just think the thing geno needs to think right now is that he needs to be feel comfortable about being open with his doctor on how he feels and being comfortable about the prospect of hospitalization should he seek it.
But I have to say, it's much better to do what I did, and not "let your doctor determine if you get hospitalized" and instead voluntarily admit yourself. That way, you're granted greater freedoms when you decide to leave.>
On what grounds would you admit him for? Seriously....he goes to the front desk and says....I write long posts? If he understands his opiate problem and is taking steps to better himself,why go to a hospital? I've been there and i saw people with schizophrenia,bi polar,major major depression,crying screaming,people licking themselves,one lady rolling around on the floor,One lady told me she was satan,people leaving when the orator was speaking...You are locked in and if you dont follow their rules exactly...you are labeled as "out of control"
I was subjected to this because I had panic attacks.I believe and several other physicians believe this was totally inapporiate for me.A hospital should be treated when you can't function in society.For instance if you have the flu,break your leg etc.your never admitted unless you are not capable of functioning.To me,Geno has posted for years,he can function.I see ya in the other post
Posted by thug life on September 30, 2004, at 23:21:50
In reply to Re: Amphetamine Psychosis: utopizen, posted by utopizen on September 30, 2004, at 13:21:06
> well, I'm not sure if it was amphetamine psychosis, but because my ADD is so bad that when I meet with doctors I often look off suddenly to the distance, they suspect I am hearing "voices." I've never heard "voices" in my life.>Now,look at these words.It shows you that Doctors are gods.If you werent hearing voices but they said you were...how would anyone react? You would be furious because you dont hear voices yet they keep saying you do.So...you get a little angry next thing you know you are labeled with"out of control" blah,blah,blah tendencies.Trust me....Doctors by far do not care about you.Once you are out of sight you are out of mind.Look at how they live,make tons of money,they are prescription writers,follow a nonsense pdr,DSM whatever its up to now,there is a lot of corruption and wrong doings...trust me.Look at the whole picture and you'll see the truth.Start with the Zypexa cup on his desk then go to the NIMH...there are a lot more things,institutes but start thinking there.Ativan was used as a possible weapon in war,the CIA funded the grateful dead and was given LSD to see the effects and if could be used in war.Check into it,you will see how much the government brainwashes us.
> what did happen was me being upset with my doc because I wanted an antipsychotic for my social anxiety on top of my klonopin and he wouldn't give me on, so I was so irritable I slammed the door. It was a doc located at an outpatient wing of the hospital, so I decided to check myself into the in-patient clinic because I was shocked I did such a thing.<Why would you want an anti-psy for social anxiety?
They cause dysphoria and will leave you sleeping all the time.I was on Seroquel,Zyprexa and our possibly the worst meds I have ever tried.The last thing someone with social anxiety is a dopamine blocker.Studies show in rats show increasing dopamine they become the leaders,doers,and are most competent in their group.
> But I did talk excessively at the time, and um, I don't know. Whatever it was, it was a negative reaction to the stimulants, which my psychiatrist at the hospital wrote down on my release paper. He just entertained the idea of amphetamine psychosis to me, but I refuted it with saying "amphetamine psychosis is clinically indistinguishable from schitzophrenia."<Was it the amp or a manic episode?
> But a negative reaction to a stimulant is worthy of seeking help, in any case. I'm not psychotic on the stuff, it's just that it antagonized existing life cicrumstances (school, incompletes) that made me feel hopeless and depressed and anxious. I've cleared things up, and am recovering steadily from my depression, and in a couple of weeks will be going on Klonopin again.<You want to go on a benzo? Try stopping Klonopin in 6 months cold turkey,see what happens.There our tons of debates on its abuse and addiction.It also can leave you depressed and numb.Valium,Xanax,Klonopin all leave you addicted.How would your friends feel when klonopin wears off and you are freaking out because of overwhelming anxiety? Just as you said in the other post about stimulants.There are tons of horror stories of benzos.
> To geno: I strongly advise talking with your doc about Klonopin. It's great to combine with stimulants to control your worries and helps you out while you're trying to find more relief from an antidepressant.<
> A lot of us, obviously, are obsessive over our mental illnesses. Klonopin helps us tremendously with letting us cope with things, and not trying to feveriously research on hopes that we'll find a "cure." No cure awaits you, but relief is possible.<
Do you see how Klonopin can be addicting? You are relying on it to feel better.
Drugs of abuse...
1)take them to feel good(how many people resort to 1 or 2 xanax or klonopin under a little stess)
2)you crave the drug(try stopping a benzo cold turkey)
3)there is a large and ready market(there are millions of websites offering benzos)drugs of non-abuse...
1)feel nothing(give someone adderall,they wont be feeling high and trying to escape reality)
2)forget to take the medication(this happens all the time,ask any high school kid)
3)no demand on the street(ask a drug dealer if they have any dex or adderall)What is wrong with finding a cure? Why put limits on mental abilities? Why not research? Knowledge is power.How do Doctors become doctors? Research!!! You have to know as much as you can.Stand 4 nothing and your bound to fall 4 anything.Trust me on this one....Fear is stronger than love.No matter how much you say you love something when put to the test and your inner most insecurites are brought about,you will act out of fear.Look at 911...all the love for our country meant nothing to the people on the planes.The fear on getting stabbed by a box cutter won.We need to start loving ourselves and trusting ourselves and not being afraid to learn and even become smarter that these doctors.The only problem with research is listening to opinions and not seeing the facts.
In my opinion,Utopizen you are a nice person.But don't be afraid to think you can get rid of any disorder because a doctor said so.Dont be afraid to get rid of your problems.I know a lot of people hear they have a disorder and become it,then live with it...then they fall back on that crutch for acting a certain way,they always have a reason for their actions.Im not saying this is you but im being real.Alot of people out there fear change,they become content.People don't like the truth,they want to be told what to think,they dont want to look in the mirror.Based upon what I know...I wouldve said you were leaning to bi-polar or borderline personality.Look how you changed all my words around in my first post? Look how easy you were to say I didnt care and was trying to make you look bad.Having school problems,irritability,being defensive,not seeing the middle ground,possible psychotic episodes? I am not being mean.I am not trying to put you down.I am just wondering if you have had the right treatment.Have you checked into borderline personality? I do know about your disorder,it is a development disorder(PDD)But I don't know enough about you to see that.I am going by your responses to my posts.I know you probably cant see it but I like you.Why? I feel your passion.I know as a kid,through your fighting and hurting you probably ran in your room crying thinking you were a burden and no one was there with their arms open wide saying everythings going to be alright...with unconditional love.I could be wrong but I'm here for anyone regardless.Btw you wrote my name"thug life" and no one elses.This is what it meansTHE
HATE
U
GAVELITTLE
INFANTS
F@#KS
EVERBODYMeaning to avoid all these problems we need to start treating our youth better.Alot of problems come from your family and environment.In the end it F**ks everybody because look how much suffering is in this world mentally that couldve been avoided if your childhood was different...think about it.
I mentioned a rose from the concrete.Thats what we all are.Check this out....
Did You Hear about the rose that grew from the crack in the concrete.
Proving nature's laws wrong it learned to walk without having feet
Funny it seems but by keeping its dreams
it learned to breathe fresh air
Long live that rose that grew from the concrete
when no one else caredI'll switch it up...
Did you Hear about Utopizen that had a mental illness?
Proving everybody wrong,Utopizen learned to survive without knowing the ways
Funny it seems but by keeping the hopes and dreams alive
Utopizen learned to feel good again and stay positive and survive
Long live Utopizen who overcame the odds
When no one else caredThis questions what is beautiful.In a rosebush taking care of,people will stop,smell it,adore it...think its beautiful.But if they saw a rose growing from the concrete a little dirty,a petal missing they wouldn't give it a second look.It's tainted and dirty.But when you look further you see a miracle that people will walk right over.
1)They dont see how something as beautiful as a rose grew from such a non giving place(concrete)
2)They dont see the how the rose could actually thrive and survive this long under horrible conditions.
3)And what is beauty...the rose for living under harsh conditions? Or the concrete for being a non giving environment yet it gave the world a beautiful rose? They are both beautiful and miracles just like everyone on this board.No one knows the struggles they only see the troubles not knowing its hard to carry on when no one loves you,they have never witnessed the problems we survived.So enough of me.....now this is a long post lol!!!Geno,
I'll address you later and try and help.Thug Angel
Posted by linkadge on October 1, 2004, at 22:11:15
In reply to Re: Amphetamine Psychosis: utopizen last time, posted by thug life on September 30, 2004, at 23:21:50
The origninal message was excessivly long. It does sound that the writer does have a problem with drugs/meds that needs to be addressed immediately.
Amphetamine psychosis is a continuom in my mind.
I think the issue is really about control.
If a drug restores ballence and helps a user gain a normal control over his life then it is good. If the focus changes from life to the drugs, then there is a problem.Linkadge
Posted by geno on October 3, 2004, at 5:35:36
In reply to Re: Amphetamine Psychosis: utopizen, posted by utopizen on September 30, 2004, at 11:23:44
To mr Utopizen,
Hey, i just have few questions for you. Are you some kind of psychic, you like read mind and dont even know one bit about the person who you are speaking of?Second, are you a Pyschiatrist, better yet, an expert in ADD/ADHA, or even have a some kind of specialization in the medical field.
Third, is people like you seem to somehow irritate me in a sence. Instead of saying, ok geno, you may have a problem, i would run it by your doctor, you inflame the problem, more so, making me look a bit foolish. Yet so, behind a computer screen. Now my next statement will be the last,and i have to say it should not disrespect dr bob or the board, But if you were to let say visibly interact with me, i dont think your working or shall i say your wording would be in a better tone.
When i post on this board, even if "my dose is to high, or im looking for somekind of positive advise, because this board is very professional in my perspective. To say Im suffering for amphetamine pscychosis, well, I think you better do a bit more research before posting, maybe going to a different board, like health boards.
If something i say, is a bit drastic, or getting out of hand, like i said, dont ridicule me, and go on and on , to spark others to team up with you. In my opinon, you may have some kind of issue, which because i dont know you, i would not or cannot say, but i must have an anxiety disorder, with amphetamien psychosis, so when i see my doctor in 4 days, ill be sure to have him set me up with the closest psych hospital. Ill be sure inform you if and how i make out.Besides that, I dont expect to hear you post in reference to my name, or a complaint may be filed with DR. BOB.
Thank you
geno
Posted by iris2 on October 3, 2004, at 14:16:26
In reply to My views - short, posted by linkadge on October 1, 2004, at 22:11:15
I don't have amphetamine psychosis. But I take Ritalin and when I take enough of it to actually help a lot it makes me obnoxious. No one including me can stand to be around me. I talk a talk incessantly or write. But mostly talk about anything and nothing. Bounce off walls.
Unfortunately stimulant type meds are one of a few in the arsenal of meds that provides any help. The Ritalin is not helping my focus or concentration much at all though. I cannot take adderal I am sure. I have tried dex and a few others and I cannot take them because of a bladder disease. It is embarrassing to talk so much so I hardly take the Ritalin anymore. My family tells me how they can talk to me now. But I am more depressed and have a difficult time getting out of bed etc.
I was thinking of trying Strattera, which gets me to why I posted.
Any suggestions? Something that will be stimulating increase motivation, focus, drive, concentration. The magic bullet:)
Irene
Posted by iris2 on October 3, 2004, at 14:33:38
In reply to Dexedrine Spanuals Vs Adderall vs Ritalin, posted by geno on September 29, 2004, at 17:33:07
Geno,
My two cents.
First I think what utopizen posted was inappropriate and uninformed. He or we do not know you or much about you. If I felt the way he did and had concerns I would have asked a lot of questions to try and ascertain if I was barking up the right tree.
I tend to have a difficult time keeping on subject and am long winded.
I also su** at typing. Especially if I am in an exited mood, as you seemed to be when you typed your post, and type faster than I am really able to. (I could be wrong just an initial observation)
Here is what I always do when I post:
1. After I write my post I reread it and usually find a lot of stuff that is just off topic and can easily be deleted without changing the actual content or meaning, making the post much shorter.
2. Next I copy the entire post and paste it into word and do a spell check.
Now even if my post or email is a bit long it is concise and easy to read.
It is all a bit time consuming but it makes me feel better about myself and how I come across.
Your post looked like most of mine do before I go through this process.
I hope this helps.Irene
Posted by KayeBaby on October 3, 2004, at 21:36:12
In reply to Dexedrine Spanuals Vs Adderall vs Ritalin, posted by geno on September 29, 2004, at 17:33:07
Hey Geno!
I can relate to your frustration with stimulants.Adderral XR did nothing for me at 60mgs. I could not see any effects at all. Like it was a placebo! I gave it a month and my Dr. was like Wow! Your neurology is unique! But seriously I had even put on a noticable several lbs that month so it was obvious that I wasn't joking around about it or abusing.
I take Dex. spansules combined with a small amount of (5mg tabs) od Dex. instant release. My dosage is 30 mg spansules and 5-10mg instant dex. as needed per day. 40mg total.
My chemistry reqires a jump start in them morning. The Dex spansules are great for focus but are not activating for me. I have found that 10 mg instant dex+15mg spansules in the morning works well. Another 15mg in the afternoon and I am covered well enough. No trouble sleeping or anything. However it may interest you to know that I can take as much as 100mgs+ (not at one time!)over the course of a day and it does not make me freaked out at all. Very productive of course but not really hyper acting.
Here is what I have discovered. Once you find the correct dosage, exceeding it does not make that much of a difference in the way I feel and it there simply is no reason for me to take more that what I need.You sound like you need a more physically activating stimulant. I am 36 yrs old and while I have my issues, I am sane and responsible-own my own small business and am a good mama to my kiddo. I could eat those Adderall by the handful and they simply do not do ANYTHING to me-good, bad or otherwise. I am not an abuser, my dearest desire is just to be able to navigate this life with a bit less frustration. My best "high" is when I feel functional and effective in my day to day duties.
An idea may be to try adding a small amount of dexidrine to what you are being prescrbed rather than completely switching. Also, I have found L-Tyrosine to help with stimulant tolerance. Acetyl-l-carnitine is helpful too.
For me finally knowing that how I feel now is not how you will always feel and that I will figure this problem out and move on at some point has earned me some peace. Geno, you will have happy times where you feel in control again.
I can't promise you this, I guess, but I know it just the same-you will feel better, be happy and find exactly what you need.Patience is truly a virtue I have little of. I will never be patient-instead I remind myself that there will be better days ahead and what I cannot change at the very moment I will accept because it is the only way to ease my pain till the solution is found.
Very good people can go through very dark times. You will find a way. You really will.
My thoughts are with you.
Kaye
Posted by Optimist on October 4, 2004, at 15:12:16
In reply to Re: Dexedrine Spanuals Vs Adderall vs Ritalin, posted by KayeBaby on October 3, 2004, at 21:36:12
Kaye, I just started Adderall XR a couple days ago and was wondering about the differences between it and Dexedrine primarily.
I find the Adderall XR tends to wane at around 5 to 6 hours. I feel that taking an extra pill around that time would be appropriate since I would prefer around 10-12 hours of functionality.
The price is also a major issue at the moment. Here in Canada a single pill of Adderall XR is around $3.50. Is the Dexedrine (longer lasting one) any cheaper where you are? I'd imagine the costs relative to one another would be similar where ever they are sold.
I don't have benefits at the moment and have to pay out of my own pocket so I'm looking for more cost effective solutions at this point.
Regarding the Adderall at the moment though. I seem to be enjoying it thus far. I don't seem to need much. I've been taking 10mg in the morning so far am considering dropping it down to 5 tomorrow to see what it's like. I originally started with 20mg and it was way too stimulating.
I'm been taking the Adderall with club soda on an empty stomach. The alkaline solution is supposed to increase the absorbtion. The reason I did this was because I thought I'd have to be taking a lot more than I currently am. I'm a big guy, 225 lbs. and generally not very sensitive to caffeine or ephedrine. I thought I would try a little more at the beginning to figure out my therapeutic dosage as quickly as possible. Since every size pill generally costs the same, I didn't want to be using multiple 5mg pills and spend too much money at the beginning.
I had also heard about some 60 lbs kids needing 30mg a day, and some adults around 80mg so I guessed that I would require more.
My main problem as been been energic depression, and am currently using the Adderall for improved energy, motivation, and focus. I'm also taking 300mg of wellbutrin a day.
If anyone else has anything to offer I would appreciate it as well. Thanks.
Posted by theo on October 4, 2004, at 16:32:37
In reply to Re: Dexedrine Spanuals Vs Adderall vs Ritalin » KayeBaby, posted by Optimist on October 4, 2004, at 15:12:16
My doc was thinking about addin Adderall XR or Concerta for energy, focus problems.
Is Adderall XR pretty smooth? Have you ever tried Concerta?
Posted by Dr. Bob on October 5, 2004, at 3:23:28
In reply to Re: Dexedrine Spanuals Vs Adderall vs Ritalin » geno, posted by iris2 on October 3, 2004, at 14:33:38
> people like you seem to somehow irritate me in a sence... you inflame the problem
>
> geno> I think what utopizen posted was inappropriate and uninformed.
>
> IreneThanks for trying to work this out, but please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above posts, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Optimist on October 5, 2004, at 9:26:30
In reply to Re: Dexedrine Spanuals Vs Adderall vs Ritalin » Optimist, posted by theo on October 4, 2004, at 16:32:37
> My doc was thinking about addin Adderall XR or Concerta for energy, focus problems.
>
> Is Adderall XR pretty smooth? Have you ever tried Concerta?I find it generally pretty smooth, although I don't have much to compare it to. The only stimulants I've taken are caffeine, ephedrine, and now adderall, and cocaine once but I'd never take that again anyways. The adderall is definitely more smooth than the ephedrine. I'm not a big fan of ephedrine personally. I can't focus on it.
I have not tried Concerta. I might suggest to my pdoc next time to try dexedrine though if it is cheaper. We'll see. I find the stimulating qualities of adderall overall better than caffeine, most notably from the longer half life. It seems to offer more motivation it seems as well, and perhaps better focus too.
The Adderall doesn't seem to make me anxious either, although I haven't had too much of a problem with that in the past. A little social anxiety I've had but nothing too debilitating. If anything the Adderall may make me more socially adept. I'm still feeling it out though. I haven't been out in public much while on it in the last few days. I definitely feel more chatty, and perhaps more social confidence as well. We'll see.
Posted by utopizen on October 5, 2004, at 10:32:47
In reply to Re: Amphetamine Psychosis: utopizen, posted by geno on October 3, 2004, at 5:35:36
I don't understand why anyone would act like going to a psych hospital is a negative thing to do. I found it quiet positive. And yes, I do have an issue. If I didn't, or if you didn't, would we be here? I hope not! =)
take care, I don't think you're as bad as you think I do.We just need help sometimes, and it doesn't matter what "diagnosis" I think you have-- what's matter is that you find relief, and I don't care how you get it-- I just want you to feel you found it when and however you do get it =)
Posted by utopizen on October 5, 2004, at 10:35:42
In reply to Re: My views - short » linkadge, posted by iris2 on October 3, 2004, at 14:16:26
> I don't have amphetamine psychosis. But I take Ritalin and when I take enough of it to actually help a lot it makes me obnoxious. No one including me can stand to be around me. I talk a talk incessantly or write. But mostly talk about anything and nothing. Bounce off walls.
adding an antidepressant to whatever stimulant can help a lot. Straterra isn't a bad idea. um, how did you get diagnosed w/ the bladder disease? 'cause if I take adderall 60mg/day now, I uh, wake up with um, having released some water overnight... keeping my dose to 40mg seems to help.
Posted by iris2 on October 5, 2004, at 12:24:51
In reply to Re: Dexedrine Spanuals Vs Adderall vs Ritalin » KayeBaby, posted by Optimist on October 4, 2004, at 15:12:16
I take Ritalin and it helps some. I do not think I would be able to take Adderal but do you think it would help more with the focuc,concentaration ,motivation. The ritalin only seems to get me out of bed and not a whole lot more. Except to malke me talk insessantly. Perhaps Strattera?
What do people think I should try. I migh try stuff I probably cannot tolerate just to see.
irene
Posted by iris2 on October 5, 2004, at 12:34:49
In reply to Re: My views - short, posted by utopizen on October 5, 2004, at 10:35:42
My bladder disease i sinterstitial systitis. I started having frequency and urgency. I ws going upwards of 40 times a day and could not sleap through it. Now later in the disease I have a lot of pain when it flares up. After measuring and taking the times I went the dotor first made sure I did not have a bacterial infection and then he did a bladder biopsy. None of it was fun. I think they have better ways to diagnos this particular disease now.
irene
Posted by Optimist on October 5, 2004, at 16:03:58
In reply to Re: Dexedrine Spanuals Vs Adderall vs Ritalin » Optimist, posted by iris2 on October 5, 2004, at 12:24:51
> I take Ritalin and it helps some. I do not think I would be able to take Adderal but do you think it would help more with the focuc,concentaration ,motivation. The ritalin only seems to get me out of bed and not a whole lot more. Except to malke me talk insessantly. Perhaps Strattera?
>
> What do people think I should try. I migh try stuff I probably cannot tolerate just to see.
>
> ireneI don't have too much to offer as I don't have any experience or knowledge with regard to those meds (Ritalin, Strattera).
I'm curious why you think Ritalin wouldn't bother you but Adderall would? Have you experimented with it before or have you heard that it is bad for your condition?
It may be likely that Adderall may have more to offer with respect to energy, motivation, and focus. Adderall seems to be the most popular out of all the stim. ADD drugs. Of course people react differently to different meds so you basically have to figure it out through experimentation.
Posted by iris2 on October 5, 2004, at 20:25:01
In reply to Re: Dexedrine Spanuals Vs Adderall vs Ritalin » iris2, posted by Optimist on October 5, 2004, at 16:03:58
> I'm curious why you think Ritalin wouldn't bother you but Adderall would? Have you experimented with it before or have you heard that it is bad for your condition?
>
> It may be likely that Adderall may have more to offer with respect to energy, motivation, and focus. Adderall seems to be the most popular out of all the stim. ADD drugs. Of course people react differently to different meds so you basically have to figure it out through experimentation.I have tried several other stimulants besides Ritalin and was unable to take them at all because they all caused a lot of side effects because of a bladder disease I have. In fact I think Adderal has dex in it which I have tried. The likelyhood of a mix of three different stimulants being okay in my body is about nill. My pdoc still cannot figure out why I am able to tolerate Ritalin. AndrewB seemed to know but I never quite understood it all. I thought my best bet would be Strattera. Even that I will probably not be able to take but at least I have a fighting chance going it. I want to take something besides Ritalin because it really is not the best mood elevator or at concentration , focus and motivation. Basically it gets me out of bed and gives me a little energy. On the really down side it makes me a motormouth sometimes.
Thanks,irene
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