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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Larry Hoover on September 7, 2004, at 11:49:41
A spoof post I wrote a couple of years ago....
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on September 7, 2004, at 12:14:41
In reply to cranial impact therapy for major depression, posted by Larry Hoover on September 7, 2004, at 11:49:41
> A spoof post I wrote a couple of years ago....
>
> http://tinyurl.com/68w9d
>
> LarActually, the original is post 13 in the thread. I don't know why the URL linked to the wrong post.
Lar
Posted by partlycloudy on September 7, 2004, at 12:57:02
In reply to Re: cranial impact therapy for major depression, posted by Larry Hoover on September 7, 2004, at 12:14:41
I always wondered if that would work! It also brings to mind (groan) why I would like to put my head in a vice when I get a migraine.
Thanks, LH!
Posted by denise528 on September 7, 2004, at 15:51:00
In reply to cranial impact therapy for major depression, posted by Larry Hoover on September 7, 2004, at 11:49:41
Hi,
Very witty, although if you hadn't of said it was a spoof I'd have probably volunteered for it myself!
Denise
Posted by Cecilia on September 8, 2004, at 3:03:45
In reply to cranial impact therapy for major depression, posted by Larry Hoover on September 7, 2004, at 11:49:41
Believe me, transcranial magnetic stimulation felt EXACTLY like cranial impact therapy. And I paid $4000 for the privilege of having my head pounded. Cecilia
Posted by alesta on September 8, 2004, at 4:11:01
In reply to cranial impact therapy for major depression, posted by Larry Hoover on September 7, 2004, at 11:49:41
cranial impact therapy....of *course*!!!<g>
well, i suppose "CIT" is one way to solve the problem, lol.:) ranks right up there with ECT, in my opinion, or maybe that was your point? in any event, good stuff..:)
amy:)
Posted by Larry Hoover on September 8, 2004, at 8:06:35
In reply to Re: cranial impact therapy for major depression, posted by alesta on September 8, 2004, at 4:11:01
> cranial impact therapy....of *course*!!!<g>
>
> well, i suppose "CIT" is one way to solve the problem, lol.:) ranks right up there with ECT, in my opinion, or maybe that was your point? in any event, good stuff..:)
>
> amy:)Yes, that was indeed my point. There is this one 'gentleman' who keeps insisting that ECT is the most effective treatment for treatment-resistant major depression. He still advocates it to this day, in fact. Yet, he has not ever had it himself, despite being a perfect canditate (according to his own criteria).
The risk of permanent brain injury is not clearly settled, and I actually had a "do not ECT" contract with my pdoc. If I was ever so bad that I could not guide my own care, this contract would come into force, and subsitute decision-makers would be legally bound to not use ECT.
Anyway....
Lar
Posted by SLS on September 8, 2004, at 8:35:45
In reply to Re: cranial impact therapy for major depression » alesta, posted by Larry Hoover on September 8, 2004, at 8:06:35
> The risk of permanent brain injury is not clearly settled, and I actually had a "do not ECT" contract with my pdoc. If I was ever so bad that I could not guide my own care, this contract would come into force, and subsitute decision-makers would be legally bound to not use ECT.
>
> Anyway....
I wish I had never had ECT. Of course, that's 20/20 hindsight. If it had worked, I would feel differently, but it didn't. I still wonder how much damage it might have produced. I wonder if it has impaired my memory and ability to learn new things. I know that most of it is the depression itself, but I hate to think that I am that much worse off because of the ECT. I had 6 unilateral left followed by 8 bilateral treatments.I just read a horror story about a musician who had to learn to read music all over again after ECT. I have encountered too many of these stories described by intelligent and seemingly level-headed people not to pay attention to them. Damn.
The irony is that people who have experienced multiple drug failures are less likely to respond to ECT than those who have not. So the question remains: who exactly is the ideal candidate? I guess it is for the most urgent of emergencies, without regard to prior treatment history. However, if one has tried over 50 drug combinations to treat a depression severe enough to prevent them from functioning and caring for themselves, it is difficult to avoid thinking of ECT as an alternative. That's pretty much where I was at when I was convinced by my doctor to give it a try.
- Scott
Posted by Denise1904 on September 8, 2004, at 8:52:56
In reply to Re: cranial impact therapy for major depression, posted by SLS on September 8, 2004, at 8:35:45
Scott,
It's probably not saying much coming from me but you come across as so intelligent and articulate in your notes, if ECT has done any damage then you must have had the mental capacity of Einstein before having the ECT!
But I spose there are different ways it can affect your mental functioning. All I know is that when I'm really bad I really struggle to even digest a sentence and yet you seem to be able to dish out all these facts and figures.
As far as the guy who had to relearn to read music all over again goes, well at least he had the motivation to do it. I'd rather lose the memory but have my motivation back to want to do things in the first place if medication wastn't helping at all. Where there's a will there's a way but where there's no will then there's no way.
What have the downfalls of ECT been as far as you are concerned? Did people you know notice a change? My mum hates it when I even bring the subject of it up.
Denise
Posted by Larry Hoover on September 8, 2004, at 9:19:44
In reply to Re: cranial impact therapy for major depression, posted by SLS on September 8, 2004, at 8:35:45
> > The risk of permanent brain injury is not clearly settled, and I actually had a "do not ECT" contract with my pdoc. If I was ever so bad that I could not guide my own care, this contract would come into force, and subsitute decision-makers would be legally bound to not use ECT.
> >
> > Anyway....
>
>
> I wish I had never had ECT. Of course, that's 20/20 hindsight. If it had worked, I would feel differently, but it didn't. I still wonder how much damage it might have produced. I wonder if it has impaired my memory and ability to learn new things. I know that most of it is the depression itself, but I hate to think that I am that much worse off because of the ECT. I had 6 unilateral left followed by 8 bilateral treatments.We're none of us clean slates. Many different factors, some coming and going, and some remaining with us for life. I hope you don't spend too much energy regretting the immutable past.
> I just read a horror story about a musician who had to learn to read music all over again after ECT. I have encountered too many of these stories described by intelligent and seemingly level-headed people not to pay attention to them. Damn.
Exactly where I stood on the matter. My intellect, such as it is, is a core element of my identity. Remaining aware that I am me, without simultaneously having that, would be the end of my existence.
That said, positing cognitive deficits from ECT is only valid when there is evidence of them. This musician's case is anecdote, and does not generalize to all recipients of ECT.
> The irony is that people who have experienced multiple drug failures are less likely to respond to ECT than those who have not. So the question remains: who exactly is the ideal candidate?That's hard to say, isn't it? The foremost proponent of the therapy itself (in the United States) is also significantly tied to the largest manufacturer of ECT devices. ECT is not approved as a treatment. It simply isn't banned as a treatment. Its use predates regulatory legislation.
> I guess it is for the most urgent of emergencies, without regard to prior treatment history. However, if one has tried over 50 drug combinations to treat a depression severe enough to prevent them from functioning and caring for themselves, it is difficult to avoid thinking of ECT as an alternative.
Oh, absolutely. My personal concern was with my intellectual identity. So, that required that a decision took into account that self-awareness.
> That's pretty much where I was at when I was convinced by my doctor to give it a try.
>
>
> - ScottYou're still on the good side of the green (grass), so there's always hope.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on September 8, 2004, at 9:20:37
In reply to Re: To SLS, posted by Denise1904 on September 8, 2004, at 8:52:56
> Where there's a will there's a way but where there's no will then there's no way.
That line is a keeper. Is it yours?
Lar
Posted by Denise1904 on September 8, 2004, at 11:15:20
In reply to Re: To SLS » Denise1904, posted by Larry Hoover on September 8, 2004, at 9:20:37
Thankyou,
Yes, I think it is although I really wish it wastn't because then I would never have been in a state to feel as though I had no WILL (unless of course i picked it up from somewhere else subconsiously).
Denise
This is the end of the thread.
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