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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by linkadge on August 17, 2004, at 13:59:09
I went to visit the doctor today. Increased my celexa even further like I expected.
One step forward, 10 steps back.
Last time I tried to take charge and demand a particular treatment, I was given mood stabalizers.
Back upstairs to stare at the wall for the rest of the day. No joke intended.
Linkadge
Posted by waki on August 17, 2004, at 14:42:03
In reply to Another DR's visit down the drain, posted by linkadge on August 17, 2004, at 13:59:09
I understand you are dissapointed that you have to wait until the next visit for another change.
My experience may or may not help you out.
I saw a p-doc for about 3 years. My visits varied in span from 4 weeks to 12 weeks. It all depended if I was trying a new med.
If you devide 52 weeks in a year by my average 8 weeks span, I received about 6 changes per year.
6 changes per year for 3 years equals 18 total med changes.
At the end of three years we were running out of med experiments.
I applied for this research treatment program and got accepted.
I visit them for the time being once or twice a week. They change my med in a new york second if we are digressing.
The result is I have made more progress in 4 months then I did in 3 years.
Okay, so your not in a research program, but what about emulating my frequiency of visits.
Advise your P-doc if you are digressing you want it addressed imediately.
I never did what i am asking you because I never thought about it. What I would do is anticipate each visit as if it were my first date with the prettiest girl in school. I used to call and he would say "Okay quit taking it", but no added changes.
Hind sight tells me I'm going to do something different next time.
When i default going to my personal p-doc again I am going to interview them and find one that accomidates me the customer.
I am going to set the expectation that if the recent change digresses at what time point do we walk away?
I am then going to set the expectation that I want the next experimental med in the line up to be known.
This way if I call him in 2 weeks and we are digressing, we can stop what I was doing and start the next step.
Mind you this looks like a great idea on paper and I don't know if it will work.
What i do know is seeing a p-doc under a microscope through micro management has generated 10 times faster results for me. When and If I am ever close to normal, i will then go on a routine maintainence visit at very long intervals.
Posted by linkadge on August 17, 2004, at 15:17:18
In reply to Re: Another DR's visit down the drain, posted by waki on August 17, 2004, at 14:42:03
I am trying to increase the frequency of my visits. I just wish I could find a docotor with a "you're not leaving till you're better" attitude. Every docotor I know simply leaves you responsible for your own mental health. They don't realize that the illness somtimes leaves you incapable of being responsibe for your own mental health. Time just lingers so slowly.
Linkadge
Posted by waki on August 17, 2004, at 16:04:17
In reply to Re: Another DR's visit down the drain, posted by linkadge on August 17, 2004, at 15:17:18
Regarding looking for doctors I changed my ways long ago.
When I played college ball, a so called local doc did not operate correctly. I then was sent to Mayo and they fixed my acl. From that point on, broken rotator cuff, broken ankle, torn ligaments, broken hand, concussion. All seperate times thought my life, I then went only to major university doctors. No more local yokals.
I had my p-doc for 3 years in a major city. He is good but results are not fast enough for me. I then looked at all the universities.
My point is I have required doctors all my life. All doctors are not equal, all treatments are not equal. Think BIG! Go where the pro's would go! Think of yourself as Sandra Bullock, Demi Moore, Donald Trumps wife. They would not go to a local yocal. They would go to the best. You go out and find the best.
I understand you want to look at the wall. I understand you feel like crap. I understand you don't know where to go.
Don't think what you should, would or could do.
Imediately Adapt, improvise, overcome. Get on the net search for specialized experts. Hell, I drive 2 hours to my p-doc because I am taking it serious as I can and want to go to the best thats available to me.
Look for acadamia, good Universities with medical programs are up to date.
Like I said if you were somebody famous you have to place yourself in their shoes because they would find somebody close by. You just have to find who is the best in your area.
Make yourself into somebody special because you are special. Start thinking creative, step out of the box. This is the quality of life you are talking about. I don't care if you have to take a day off from work a week or 2 weeks or a month to drive 8 hours to the best you can find.
You need to do what ever it is will yield you the correct P-doc.
It's one necessary fact to be frustrated with trying different meds.
However it is not acceptable to be frustrated with your doctor. You need to fire that doctor and hire one that mets your needs.
Now don't come up with any excuses why you can't do this. If you have to get help from somebody to do it for you, then so be it.
It is not an option for you to be unsatisfied with your doctor.
Your only option is to find the correct treatment.
Posted by Racer on August 17, 2004, at 16:42:11
In reply to Re: Another DR's visit down the drain, posted by waki on August 17, 2004, at 16:04:17
What you say is very good advice, but it's not always possible. Linkadge, I believe, is in Canada -- with the rationed health care system problems that they've got up there.
It *is* good advice, though, and I think the answer for anyone in a similar situation is to find a way to adapt it to our situations.
(I'm in a similar situation, since I'm uninsured and broke. County system, which has become a nightmare for me, and I get one visit every five weeks. If something causes a problem, the only answer -- with a clerk playing go between -- is "stop taking it." I'm not even looking for remission anymore, under these circumstances, only enough relief to function a little better while I wait for a way to see a private doctor to open up. That looks to be likely to happen by the November elections, so there's at least an end in sight -- I hope.)
Also, since so many of the initial side effects of these drugs go away after a while, and since most of them take a while to kick in, I do think it's worth trying to stick it out on a med long enough for it to have a chance to work. That's not always possible, and often times the adjustment side effects are just impossible to wait out, but if it is possible, I think giving each dosage of each drug a good six to eight weeks is probably a good idea.
Anyway, just me beating the keyboard...
Posted by linkadge on August 17, 2004, at 17:33:51
In reply to Um... Not always possible, and... » waki, posted by Racer on August 17, 2004, at 16:42:11
The doctors of the celebrities clearly are not always accessable to the average lay person. Especially somebody who currently has no transportation and cannot afford to make weekly 2-3 hour taxi-trips to some distant doctors. There is a lot more distance between cities and towns here in Canada. I understand that I can change doctors but many doctors are not accepting new patients in this area.
I am not saying that it is impossable, but it can be a long, tedious, and potentially fruitless process, one that I am not really in such a state to embark on at the moment.
I know that sitting and staring at the wall is fruitless, as are anxiety, depression, crying, pain, suffering etc.
Linkadge
Posted by WAKI on August 17, 2004, at 17:43:48
In reply to Um... Not always possible, and... » waki, posted by Racer on August 17, 2004, at 16:42:11
Racer,
you make a good point beacuse it can appear that one has to have access to lots of funds or what ever to do what I said.
However,My nephew has not had jobs with insurance. He has similar issues as we do on here. He used to complain that he can't get/afford help etc..
I helped facilitate him making an apointment at the county clinic here. Believe me this county clinic is a model of what not to do.
Anyway, he waits in long lines etc.. changes doc's etc... I helped him become more informed. He reads these message boards, talks to people, and is now very well informed.
He helps these county doctors make a decision. Now I know my nephew is no doctor and should not self prescribe. However, he becomes informed enough to articulate the exact symptoms that yield a certain drug. He keeps going back through all the BS if a change needs to be made. My point is an improvement was made though a change. Dies he have the best? Absolutly not. He has improved though.
Canada I do not know about. This girl i know had to come to the states here for better medical help. Maybe in canada they have to change hospitals, ask for different doctors.I don't know the exact answer.
What I do know and am passionate about, is I about took my life because I gave up. People need to keep pushing themselves to change something if it is not working out.
On a note I will leave you with this thought.
Let's take your situation not having insurance etc..... One way to look at it is the glass is half empty and the cards were dealt this way and you'll work with it.There is still room to step out of the box and change something. Have you applied at a clinical trial at a major university? I had the money but kept trying and finally found a clinical trial at a university. Whats ironic is, I have the money, I have the insurance, yet my my treatment is free and get this they pay me. I don't want the money, i would actually pay for this type of treatment.
What i am trying to say is, if you have not tried this avenue then you have not tried hard enough.
You and all the other people that are or may not be satisifed need to step out of the box and try different things.
I don't know where one draws a line and says I give up, this is the best i can do. What i do know is I never quit anything in my life and I nearly quit life. Somehow my instinct to survive and not quit allowed me to find the help I needed.
In summary:
In my posting I refuse to say what you are saying "it's not always possible". I refuse to say I have used up all my resources.
The instant someone gives up and says "it's not possible" the potential is then lost. It's possible that the situation is difficult because one needs to figure it out and share it with other people.
Maybe I live in an idealistic little world that will not apply to anybody else.
I am going to keep searching new ideas, methods, avenues and magic if I have to to possible save one person. There are too many people who may or have lost hope but should not have.As far as i am concerned this world has enough problems. We need to get rid of our problems and gain some solutions and share it with other perople.
Helping people is contagious, hope is contagious.
No my friend we could agree to dissagree, it is always possible....
Posted by linkadge on August 17, 2004, at 18:15:20
In reply to Re: Um... Not always possible, and..., posted by WAKI on August 17, 2004, at 17:43:48
I never said that it was impossible to find a solution, I said that not always possible to receieve the same level of care that other, more wealthy people get.
My mind is always *open* to new possibilities but at the moment I just don't know what they are.
Linadge
Posted by Racer on August 17, 2004, at 19:53:05
In reply to Re: Um... Not always possible, and..., posted by WAKI on August 17, 2004, at 17:43:48
Just FYI -- I was trying to say that it was not always possible to take the exact course that you laid out in your first post. I tried to say that, for some of us, we should find a way to make the situation we are in resemble that course to get the best outcome within our circumstances.
Posted by jay on August 17, 2004, at 20:58:58
In reply to Um... Not always possible, and... » waki, posted by Racer on August 17, 2004, at 16:42:11
Just to note....there really isn't much of a problem with any "rationing" of our Canadian health care system. I can go to a walk-in clinic any day, 365 days a year, as many times as I like, and get prescribed what I need. I can go to any doctor I wish, and to as many as I like, as often as I like.
Our biggest problem is with ER wait times, but every single person gets looked after, and they often just give you the medication in the hospital for free. And, wait times are improving.
I am not trying to be sarcastic...just gettin' them facts straight..:-)
Best,
Jay
Posted by linkadge on August 18, 2004, at 11:40:14
In reply to Re: Um... Not always possible, and... » Racer, posted by jay on August 17, 2004, at 20:58:58
Last time I went to a walk in clinic I waited 9 1/2 hours and only got 2 ativan (0.5mg) and told to make a dr apointment.
I don't even bother anymore
Linkadge
Posted by woolav on August 18, 2004, at 19:28:22
In reply to Re: Um... Not always possible, and..., posted by linkadge on August 18, 2004, at 11:40:14
Hey, read your post, sorry for the disapointment, been there, done that. Are u in the US or Canada? Also, have you tried bringing notes with you to your pdoc visits? Like, whenever i see mine, (especially if i want to change meds) I do my research and flat out tell her that i feel i would do better with ***** or ******. I usually give her 2 options and tell her what i know about the drugs, then she chooses..it seems to work with her. just a suggestion..By the way, how long until your next appt?
San
Posted by denise1904 on August 19, 2004, at 13:59:41
In reply to Another DR's visit down the drain, posted by linkadge on August 17, 2004, at 13:59:09
Linkadge,
I can sympathise with you, they always seem to do what you expect them to do and what you don't want them to do. I used to go and see my psychiatrist, pay 200 pounds for the privalage and know beforehand exactly what he was going to suggest next.
And I also lay on my bed last night staring at the wallpaper, so you weren't alone and I'm in Vancouver supposed to be enjoying myself. I started to make out sinister patterns in the wallpaper which I'm sure were a reflection of what was going on in my mind. For some reason I could see a fallic symbol and the devil.
Fortunately the Seroxat is helping me so I'm not in the state I could be in today.
One question about the rTMS, I thought that was helping you, also is it 10Hz or 20Hz output?
Denise
Posted by sobstory on August 19, 2004, at 15:04:32
In reply to Re: Um... Not always possible, and..., posted by linkadge on August 18, 2004, at 11:40:14
Linkadge,
I too live in Canada and have had a difficult time finding a good therapist. I don't know if you live in Vancouver BC, or close to it, but University of BC has a free anxiety clinic that you can go to. They also have a mood disorder clinic where you can get free pyschiatric counselling with a four to six week waiting list. I went to the anxiety clinic and it was very helpful, plus I am going to see a pyschiatrist again. I saw one there a few years ago, and he wasn't for me, but there are more to choose from. Once you are registered at the clinics, you can get in anytime you need to. You must be referred to them by your family doctor.
If you don't live in or near Vancouver, check out your local universities. Check out their websites for a mental health, anxiety, depression and/or mood disorder unit. I found out about mine on the internet-my doctor didn't offer it, but when I asked for a referral, she gave me one no problem.
With depression and anxiety, you can't give up. It is a constant ever changing battle, and there is no cure. You have to keep searching, keep working on it. Force yourself to do something even though you don't feel like it, no matter how hard it is. Trust me, I'M THERE RIGHT NOW. I had to take today off work because I had the worst panic attack of my life yesterday that lasted four hours. The Effexor has it's moments where it doesn't seem to be working, but it's a constant uphill battle. I can't give up.
> Last time I went to a walk in clinic I waited 9 1/2 hours and only got 2 ativan (0.5mg) and told to make a dr apointment.
>
> I don't even bother anymore
>
> Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on August 19, 2004, at 16:12:54
In reply to Linkage-this may be of interest?., posted by sobstory on August 19, 2004, at 15:04:32
The rTMS works but quite frankly I am scared of it. I really don't want to be selling out. I am using 9hz, and 10hz. I find 9hz works well. I just don't want to be frying my brain. I don't have the monitoring equiptment to tell if it is destroying brain cells or not. As well I am afraid I might give myself cancer or somethng.
So I am restricting it's use.
Linkadge
This is the end of the thread.
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