![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 5 of 5. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by jerimycoplo on March 29, 2004, at 3:11:52
Hi, I was wondering if anyone has feedback on this. I have ocd and social anxiety. At the same time I seemt to have real self esteem issues. My self esteem does not stay high (or normal) at all times. It has insane bounces betweeen higher and very low. Weight lifting is the only thing that can keep me somewhat on the positive side. This creates problems in my everyday life , especially in environments where I "feel" extremely scrutinized by others. (it really isen't about if they really are, it's my perception). This creates problems for me acting normal and confident in places like highsschool, close knit college campuses or veru clique social groups. The problem is that I know I can act normal and confident and when I do my life is very good.
Is there such a thing as self esteem disorder? Everyone experiences some self doubt and low self esteem at times, but what if it is EXTREME and makes one dysfunctional in their everyday life? I am not bipolar...but my self esteem is insanely different in different situations to where, i 'm not even sure who I really am...the sucesful, happy confident guy in the big city environment or the scared shitless looser from the college cmapus?
Is ocd and anxiety a cause, effect or different thing from extremely low and variable self esteem?
Can it be entirely environmental? I would think it is probably related to abnormal brain chemistry. Most people have a firm idea or level of self esteem. Mine is all over the place and if I don't lift alot or take meds it goes insanely down. I have to get lots of dates, women and work out alot and be huge in order to feel normal about myself....
Does anyone have any feedback on this? If my self ocd was "erradicated" and anxiety completely under control would I have normal self esteem?
Btw.: my mom sufferes from the same self esteem issues and inferiority complexes and ocd/anxiety; yet she fails to acknowldge it. I would like to do something about it.
Any meds, web resources, personal experiences that would help me?appreaciate it
jc
Posted by snapper on March 29, 2004, at 16:12:45
In reply to self esteem issues and brain chemistry? help, posted by jerimycoplo on March 29, 2004, at 3:11:52
hi jc, i too suffer from ocd,social anxiety some soft bipolararity depression etc. etc. I do know this-when I was younger, probably 14-18 years old, I had a very hard time dating within my highschool because I thought that people did not like me.I covered up my feelings of low self esteem and self worth by being the class clown,and to a certain degree it worked! In doing so I thought that it would make people like me when in Fact that was not true; most of the time,they DID in fact like or accept me. It was just me turning on myself so to speak. I am sure that to many people {I probably appeared to be stuck up and that was not the case. I felt shy and awkward at times-which most people in high school usually experience- it was frustrating because I tended to not get involved or interact with others unless I was "sure" that they liked me and accepted me!! } I found solace in alcohol which turned out to be more detrimental than the original problem. What the fact is , is that I don't really believe that low self esteem is a 'true disorder' all and of it self.It is most likely a manifestation of your struggles with the ocd and SA that propel you to constantly 'lift' and feel better about youself so you can validate your feelings, but overcome some of them with the knowledge and power that lifting gives you a serious sense of self confidence. I am sorry if I am conveying things to you in an oversimplified and analytical manner but I would say that I wish I would have had more tenacity and motivation to lift weights, work out and soforth to get my self feeling good 'naturally' than having to rely upon the acceptance and approval of others If lifting weights makes you feel good then by all means keep it up. It's good for you and def helps with confidence and self esteem ..I would caution this to you ...I hope you don't fall into the idea that lifting weights is the primary thing- that will create a perfect self esteem .. - I am really starting to realize that we need balance in life! (which my mother tryed to convey to me many, many,many times, but hey I was young and stong and IN CONTROL!! So I thought!) I wish to commend you on your own personal insight into how you interact and feel safe and secure in the city and don't feel so secure in groups etc. I think that it is a critical component in your being able to overcome these specific obstacles.... You still sound young in age from what you said about yourself in your post and that is GOOD because You can most likely make some exceptional changes in the way you percieve yourself. When I had a good relationship with a woman I felt confident and mostly secure once I got to know her and she got to know me.I am at an age that I "FEEL" it is going to be next to impossible to overcome my own feelings of low self esteem and feelings of inadaquecy...how ever I am NOT truly giving up hope for a brighter future because I have a good therapist that is VERY willing to help me overcome my past hurts, feelings of rejection, unresolved grief , severe trauma and losses over the last 14 years that I have experienced,which in turn lead to mood problems > I guess bottom line is this.. I know exactly how you feel! I did a very good job in covering up my low self esteem issues etc, by 'super engaging in creating my own business' which in turn , I thought would bring me more self esteem and feelings and worth and acceptance not only from friends but females as well, it only worked to a certain degree.. I am not a therpist by any means, & cerainly don't have all the answers-If I did I would'nt be browsing, lurking and posting and looking for answers like so many others here on PB! I can definitely relate to your situation... the good news is this.
I would probably guess that you are at a young enough age to hopefully find a good therapist to help you sort out all your feelings. I wish I had done this myself. I do know how powerful and super in charge you can feel while out and about and not having to interact with others so much and that in itself gave me a better sense of self esteem , however when in small groups I did'nt always feel like I fit in.. looking back I do know that these feelings were mostly exxagerated on my part because I can look back at my high school year book and read all the nice and positive things that people wrote to me when they signed my yearbook... that helped me revalidate some-not all of my feelings about who accepted me and who I THOUGHT did not accept me...hey I know this Is a very long reply and I apologize if it has further confused you. That is by no means my intention in responding to your post. lol, the mere fact that I feel compelled to explain things to you from my perspective is most likely due to my OCD. However take heed and have hope because I do know this for sure.... most people who live with Social Anxiety and OCD, and low self esteem etc, are some of the brightest, warmest,smartest,compassionate, and most likable people around. We just somehow need to find ways to let ourselves-let others-accept us! (hope that is not confusing!:)- Yes some of it is brain chemisty and some of it is psycho-social.Something that meds may or may not be able to help with. IMHO!
Hey, I will quit rambling but I just felt compelled to offer you some hope, and hope it makes you feel better...It is truly a scary and at times very isolating thing to live with but I do believe that you can control it to a reasonable degree. I am just NOW trying to learn to not be so hard on myself and realize that , hey if people like me they like me if not then they don't - not everybody likes everybody. In closing, i wish to tell you this... I believe that meds can play a role in helping you but I found them not to be the definitive answer.If you feel like posting back that would be cool! I just have an inkling that there are a lot more people on PB that are dealing with these very same issues and we all need to compare notes thoughts and most of all, stick together so we can help each other get well!!
Good Luck to You!
snapper
Posted by Benzini on March 29, 2004, at 19:45:58
In reply to Re: self esteem issues and brain chemistry? help, posted by snapper on March 29, 2004, at 16:12:45
Low self-steem associated with social phobia is due to dopamine dysfunction. Studies on primates showed that low-ranking monkeys were lacking in dopamine. Converse was true of the dominant monkeys. I have social phobia and it manifests itself similarly. For brief periods of time I can be very confident, but most of the time my self-esteem is quite low. The only time I was able to maintain high self-steem and not see myself as being at the bottom of social hierarchy was when I was taking an SSRI (10mg Lexapro). It worked for a few a months (and it was awesome), but eventually it pooped out due to dopamine depletion. I tried Serzone (300mg for 4 months), Zoloft (200mg - 3.5 monts), but both didn't help much. Zoloft made me lethargic, completely apathetic, but still anxious socially. I just didn't care about it. I will be trying Nardil in a few weeks.
Posted by jerimycoplo on March 29, 2004, at 21:06:31
In reply to Re: self esteem and brain chemistry? Dopamine, posted by Benzini on March 29, 2004, at 19:45:58
I'm not sure why dopamine would be involved. OCD , i thought , was due to overactivity of dopamine/underactive serotonin. It is unusual
for a doc to recommend dopamine antagonists or parkinson meds for ocd. The usual meds that are recommended are ssri. This is supposedly b/c they increase serotonin and this somehow mediates the effects of the overactive dopamine. The previous post talks about being helped by lexapro before it stopped working. lexapro is a ssri and does nothign to dopamine, why would dopamine become depleted and thus the lexapro stop working (even though the lexapro affects serotonin only?).
The first post was very helpful, yet I see my problems as being mostly chemical and I'm very interested in how neurotransimtters and meds can affect my condition.
If anyone has more on this topic, please let me know. I am also interested in in what chemicals in brain are involved in ocd and anxiety (esp. social axiety) comarbid with tic disorder (not tourtette). This is what I have and I wasnt to see what could be goign array in my brain.
regards jc
Posted by snapper on March 29, 2004, at 21:08:32
In reply to Re: self esteem and brain chemistry? Dopamine, posted by Benzini on March 29, 2004, at 19:45:58
Benzini, you are soooo right in re: to the dopamine connection -I know it is much more complicated than this...bot from what I understand ---SE increase somehow downregulates DA function.... just a theory but I think that is whay MAO's are usually so effective in relieving depression and anxiety - especially atypical- depression at that; because Nardil for one effects all three mono-amines or catecholemines being Dopamine, Serotonin, as Well as Norepinerine -unfortunately these meds usually have some of the worst side effect profiles-I Realize that part of my previous "PSYCHO BABBLE" POST was just that:QUITE A BIT OF "BABBLE' LOL, but hey I think some of it made sense!
See ya
snapper
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.