![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 66. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Ilene on February 19, 2004, at 8:52:49
Cubbybear asked me to post my Marplan experiences. Oskarsmom is also taking Marplan. Perhaps she will post, too, and re-post the link to the Marplan monograph.
My diagnoses: Unipolar depression (some hints of bipolar spectrum disorder), generalized anxiety disorder, chronic fatigue syndrome, neurally mediated hypotension.
My personal situation is lousy. I'm too sick to work, and I've been hit by a series of personal setbacks over the last few years that have left me socially isolated. I have no social life because I've been too sick and depressed to do the activities where one usually meets people, and I haven't had the energy to maintain social relationships. I live with my son right now, but I'll be joining my husband and daughter in June or July in San Francisco. My relationship with my husband is uneven.
Previous meds included desipramine (a TCA), SSRIs (prozac, celexa, zoloft, maybe paxil), Wellbutrin, Effexor, Lamictal, Provigil, Dexedrine, and high doses of fish oils. The desipramine and Prozac worked for a few years and then pooped out.
Currently taking 900 mg. Neurontin at night for sleep, 0.1 mg. Florinef for hypotension, 0.25 mg. Klonopin (1/2 of a 0.5 mg. tablet) as needed for anxiety, and 0.25 mg. Risperdal. I nearly always need to take Klonopin in the morning.
(My pdoc told me to stop taking the Risperdal yesterday, so I did, and I woke up early this morning w/ intense anxiety. Now we know it's doing something.)
We chose Marplan because the side effect profile falls between Parnate and Nardil. One of my problems is that I can't tolerate stimulants anymore, so I don't want to take Parnate. I've been slowly increasing the ratio of coffee to decaf in my morning brew; seems to be working. I'm getting a bit of a boost instead of dysphoria.
I paid $31.49 for thirty 10 mg. tablets. I don't think my insurance covers this drug.
We are increasing the dose by 10 mg. every four days.
I started on Friday 2/13 with one tablet in the morning.
On Monday I felt good enough to take my son on a museum outing. I did not take any Klonopin that day.
On Tuesday I doubled the dose and I felt like a zombie all day. I'm not sure it was due to the Marplan because my son has been sick, and I could have been fighting off an infection.
Yesterday I took one Marplan in the morning and felt pretty good (comparatively), with my mood fading toward evening. I did *not* take my 5 p.m. dose of Risperdal. I took the second Marplan when I went to bed. No Klonopin at all.
Today (Thursday) I woke up early and anxious, as noted. I took my Klonopin and Marplan, called the pdoc , and she said to take the Risperdal. I'm starting to feel better (9:30 AM).
I *seem* to be responding, but sometimes I'll feel better for a few days for no reason I can discern. My short-term goal is to maintain a reasonable mood for 3 or 4 weeks. Then I'd like to volunteer somewhere in the hopes of regaining a social life.
Ilene
Posted by oskarsmom on February 19, 2004, at 13:40:40
In reply to Marplan Diary, posted by Ilene on February 19, 2004, at 8:52:49
Here's the link to the monograph:
http://www.oxfordpharm.com/Healthcare.htm
Here's my brief diary.
I started Marplan at 5 mgs on Jan 22. I just started 30 mgs today. My pdoc switched the dose from PM to AM as I was waking early in the morning and tossing and turning until I got up. I've also, within the past day or so had periods of "wiredness" like that overcaffienated feeling. Lasts a couple of hours and then goes away. Otherwise I've had no side effects.
At 20 mgs I got a brief response where I actually felt almost normal but that only lasted for a few days. My p-doc thinks it may have been a bipolar reaction. I'm on lots of mood stabilizers so we're hoping that I won't "overshoot".
Other than that I've been in a bipolar depression for almost 5 years. Mainly severe, sometimes moderate and 3 hospitalizations for suicidal ideation.
So that's me in a nutshell. Hello everyone. I'm really glad to have found all of you.
oskarsmom
Posted by cubbybear on February 20, 2004, at 5:23:37
In reply to Marplan Diary, posted by Ilene on February 19, 2004, at 8:52:49
Ilene,
Thanks loads for this post, which is a long overdue jewel of information. We all need lots of choices out there, and especially among MAOIs, which have fallen in popularity because of industry prejudice and misconception.As for your response to Marplan, I'd say that if it works anything like Parnate, you should expect days of ups and downs; it was never a straight line up for me after being in the depths of depression. It usually took the Parnate about 3-4 weeks to kick in, but everyone's different.
You're paying an enormous amount of money per tablet if you buy the Marplan in small quantities. Assuming you respond well to the Marplan and will stay on it, be sure to have your dr. prescribe it in multiples of 100 tabs, so the pharmacist can give you the bottles he gets, which contain 100 tabs, and your price should decrease accordingly.
Looking forward to reading your diary!
Posted by Ilene on February 20, 2004, at 7:05:34
In reply to Re: Marplan Diary » Ilene, posted by cubbybear on February 20, 2004, at 5:23:37
> Ilene,
> Thanks loads for this post, which is a long overdue jewel of information. We all need lots of choices out there, and especially among MAOIs, which have fallen in popularity because of industry prejudice and misconception.
>
> As for your response to Marplan, I'd say that if it works anything like Parnate, you should expect days of ups and downs; it was never a straight line up for me after being in the depths of depression. It usually took the Parnate about 3-4 weeks to kick in, but everyone's different.Thanks. Yesterday was a bad day, and today isn't starting out so good. Sounds like having a couple of good days surrounded by bad days is normal. That's comforting to know.
> You're paying an enormous amount of money per tablet if you buy the Marplan in small quantities. Assuming you respond well to the Marplan and will stay on it, be sure to have your dr. prescribe it in multiples of 100 tabs, so the pharmacist can give you the bottles he gets, which contain 100 tabs, and your price should decrease accordingly.
It didn't seem like an enormous price to me! I suppose it would be if I started taking five pills a day, at $1 per. Luckily, I think my insurance kicks in when the price of a prescription exceeds $40.
> Looking forward to reading your diary!
Posted by Ilene on February 20, 2004, at 7:28:00
In reply to Marplan Diary, posted by Ilene on February 19, 2004, at 8:52:49
This is my one-week anniversary and my last day at 20 mg. Tomorrow I will go up to 30 mg.
Yesterday was pretty sucky. I did a few things around the house and went to yoga. I have to take Klonopin before I go to yoga. I'm doing yoga because it's supposed to be good for me. I used to get a bit of a boost from it, but no longer. I'm getting over my self-conciousness in class, though.
My son's school counselor was in the yoga class! I've been trying to get ahold of this woman for *three weeks* because the schools to which my son is applying haven't gotten the information they need. She seemed irritated that I considered this a problem. "It's not brain surgery," she said.
The yoga instructor says she has problems with word-finding because she takes ADs. She must be one of the success stories that has no need for Babble. Life is so unfair.
I've noticed I wake up feeling bad, gradually feel better by midday, then by mid-afternoon I'm going down again.
I still have plenty of suicidal ideation. My internal pain hardly ever goes away.
I.
Posted by Ilene on February 20, 2004, at 17:45:15
In reply to Marplan Diary, posted by Ilene on February 19, 2004, at 8:52:49
I keep reading out of date info about what you can and can't eat while taking MAOIs, so here is what I've gleaned. Most of it comes from Psychotropic Drugs Fast Facts, 3rd edition, some from other reading. It's rather North America-centric; apologies to Babblers from furrin' parts.
1) Eighty percent of hypertensive crises triggered by food are triggered by aged cheese. That's why it's called a "cheese reaction".
2) The substance that causes the cheese reaction is tyramine, a breakdown product of protein that forms during aging or fermentation. A few other substances may cause problems, but see #1. Be wary of meat, fish, poultry, or dairy products that have spent to much time in the fridge.
2) Some of the proscriptions are not only anecdotal, but decades old, such as the one about Chianti. Back in about 1963, someone drank a glass of Chianti and had a problem. Ditto bananas--banana peel, actually, believe it or not.
3) Individual sensitivity to tyramine varies.
4) The tyramine content of naturally fermented foods (e.g. cheeses, soy sauce) varies.
Details:
Aged cheeses are the worst. These include Liederkranz, English Stilton, blue cheese, aged cheddar, brick, mozzarella, Gruyere, Swiss, [I question the mozzarella--good mozzarella is fresh. ]
You can eat fresh cheeses, such as cottage cheese, processed slices (American cheese), ricotta, and cream cheese. Boursin and Bonbel are okay; provolone seems to fall in the middle.
Over 5 mg. tyramine in 4 hours may be risky. This is the best on-line list I can find:
http://www.nationaldairycouncil.org/nutrition/products/dairy.asp?page=3
Scroll down to the link to Table 11 (pdf file)Don't drink tap or microbrewery beer. Four or fewer US or Canadian beers is okay. I don't have info about other kinds of beer.
Don't eat fava (or "horse") beans (I haven't seen a fava bean in years. The only place you are likely to come across one is an ethnic market or Italian restaurant.)
Don't eat concentrated yeast extracts, esp. Marmite. Beware of powdered protein diet supplements containing yeast extracts. Brewer's yeast is safe.
Beware of pickled herring. (Some sources say avoid entirely, some say you can eat the herring, but not the brine.)
Avoid aged salami, mortadella, air-dried sausage, chicken liver (by day 5). Bologna, pepperoni, summer sausage, fresh chicken liver, corned beef, and liverwurst are safe.
Don't eat sauerkraut.
Soy: Avoid tofu (some sources say fresh tofu is safe, just don't let it sit in the fridge.) Be careful with soy sauce. You should be able to consume up to 4 teaspoons of Kikkoman, for example, but some other brands contain more tyramine. Avoid miso soup. I wouldn't order anything with black bean sauce in a Chinese restaurant.
No shrimp paste.
It's okay to eat:
Chocolate except in very large quantities (I don't know what a "large quantity" is. I've read that dark European chocolate is worse than American milk chocolate.)
Figs, raisins, overripe fruit, avocados, bananas (except for the peel--but when's the last time you ate a banana peel?)
Tea, coffee, cola, and other sources of caffeine. Some sources say keep these under 3 cups/day.
Wine and spirits. Some sources say only up to 3 oz/day. One source says vermouth has a high tyramine content.
Yogurt, unless it is unpasteurized or over 5 days old.
Caviar, snails, canned fish
Canned and powdered soup, unless made from boullion or meat extracts and consumed in quantity.
Aspartame, except in large amounts (e.g. over 10 sodas)
Commercially prepared pizza (beware of gourmet pizza that might contain real cheese or aged sausage)Drugs
MAOIs interact with an astonishing number of drugs. The reactions include hypertensive crises, serotenerginc reactions, noradrenergic reactions, hypotension, and some other things. Again, the information I can find is contradictory, but here it is.
Prescription drugs
Both serotonergic and noradrenergic ADs can cause problems. This is why you need a several-day washout period between other ADs and MAOIs.
A wide variety of other drugs are can cause reactions. Many MDs aren't familiar with these, so be extra careful with your prescriptions. These include norepinephrine; meperidine (Demerol), which can be fatal; some other opiates; stimulants; anti-asthma drugs; anesthetics; and a raft of others. Make sure your dentist knows you are taking an MAOI, as vasoconstrictors used in local anesthetics may cause a reaction (I found contradictory info. about this.)
OTC Drugs
Be careful with anything for a cough, cold, allergy, or to lose weight. These ingredients are potentially dangerous: Ephedrine, phenylephrine, phenylpropanolamine, pseudoephedrine, and dextromethorphan. (No ephedra, either.)
Posted by socialdeviantjeff on February 21, 2004, at 0:08:19
In reply to Marplan Diary Day 8, posted by Ilene on February 20, 2004, at 7:28:00
Ilene,
I wish I had something to say that might help, but you're in my thoughts. You know, my days have cycles too. Physically I wake up feeling horrible. I get a little better by evening and have the most energy at night. Mood-wise, mornings aren't too bad usually, but it gets worse as the day goes on, afternoons and just before bed usually being the worst.
Good luck with the Yoga and that school counselor.
Posted by cubbybear on February 21, 2004, at 0:16:13
In reply to MAOI food and drug interactions, posted by Ilene on February 20, 2004, at 17:45:15
> I keep reading out of date info about what you can and can't eat while taking MAOIs, so here is what I've gleaned. Most of it comes from Psychotropic Drugs Fast Facts, 3rd edition, some from other reading. It's rather North America-centric; apologies to Babblers from furrin' parts.
> Aged cheeses are the worst. These include Liederkranz, English Stilton, blue cheese, aged cheddar, brick, mozzarella, Gruyere, Swiss, [I question the mozzarella--good mozzarella is fresh. ]
>
It's very frustrating--sure the list was updated several years ago, but contradictions remain. Like you, I question the listing about mozarella--since I read on another source that fresh mozarella is OK. So long as contradictiions remain, MAOI users will have difficulty deciding what to do or not do in certain instances. I would very much like to try a small pizza in Pizza Hut with only plain mozarella,but still worry about this. Has ANYONE experienced a hypertensive reaction solely from eating fresh mozarella? Please come forward!
Posted by cubbybear on February 21, 2004, at 1:04:43
In reply to Marplan Diary Day 8, posted by Ilene on February 20, 2004, at 7:28:00
> This is my one-week anniversary and my last day at 20 mg. Tomorrow I will go up to 30 mg.
>
I've been keeping a personal journal for about 15 years. Have about 45 volumes. When you emerge from the blackness and re-read your journals a few months later, you'll be able to say, "I never dreamt I'd get through this nightmare, but I did."
It seems to me that the dosing for Marplan and Parnate are comparable in numbers, so it appears that you're still on a pretty low dose. When badly depressed, I can expect good results from the Parnate only at a 40 mg., no less. You still have a few days before you'll get upto therapeutic dose on the Marplan, and then you'll have to be patient until it kicks in. Keep posting day by day. This in itself will help get you through the seemingly never-ending waiting period.
Posted by Ilene on February 21, 2004, at 8:10:28
In reply to Re: MAOI food and drug interactions » Ilene, posted by cubbybear on February 21, 2004, at 0:16:13
> > I keep reading out of date info about what you can and can't eat while taking MAOIs, so here is what I've gleaned. Most of it comes from Psychotropic Drugs Fast Facts, 3rd edition, some from other reading. It's rather North America-centric; apologies to Babblers from furrin' parts.
>
> > Aged cheeses are the worst. These include Liederkranz, English Stilton, blue cheese, aged cheddar, brick, mozzarella, Gruyere, Swiss, [I question the mozzarella--good mozzarella is fresh. ]
> >
> It's very frustrating--sure the list was updated several years ago, but contradictions remain. Like you, I question the listing about mozarella--since I read on another source that fresh mozarella is OK. So long as contradictiions remain, MAOI users will have difficulty deciding what to do or not do in certain instances. I would very much like to try a small pizza in Pizza Hut with only plain mozarella,but still worry about this. Has ANYONE experienced a hypertensive reaction solely from eating fresh mozarella? Please come forward!
Go for it!J Clin Psychiatry. 1999 Mar;60(3):191-3.
Comment in:
* J Clin Psychiatry. 2000 Feb;61(2):145-6.Refining the MAOI diet: tyramine content of pizzas and soy products.
Shulman KI, Walker SE.
Department of Psychiatry, University of Toronto, Sunnybrook Health Science Centre, Ontario, Canada.BACKGROUND: Continuous refinement of the monoamine oxidase inhibitor (MAOI) diet has resulted in much reduced and simplified recommendations that attempt to balance safety and practicality. In the spirit of evidence-based practice, dietary restrictions should be based on carefully documented case reports and valid tyramine analyses. Residual concerns have focused on combination foods such as pizza and a variety of soy products. We determined the tyramine content of pizzas and a variety of soy products in order to refine dietary recommendations for use with MAOIs. METHOD: High-pressure liquid chromatography analysis of tyramine content was performed on a variety of pizzas, soy sauces, and other soybean products. A tyramine level of 6 mg or less was considered safe. RESULTS: No significant tyramine levels were found in any of the pizzas, including those with double pepperoni and double cheese. Marked variability was found in soy products, including clinically significant tyramine levels in tofu when stored for a week and high tyramine content in one of the soy sauces. CONCLUSION: Pizzas from large chain commercial outlets are safe for consumption with MAOIs. However, caution must be exercised if ordering pizzas from smaller outlets or gourmet pizzas known to contain aged cheeses. All soybean products should be avoided, especially soy sauce and tofu. Individualized counseling and continuous surveillance of compliance are still essential.
Posted by Ilene on February 21, 2004, at 8:41:46
In reply to Marplan Diary, posted by Ilene on February 19, 2004, at 8:52:49
Yesterday was interesting. I went to an "IEP" (I think it means Individual Education Program) meeting at my son's school. He's 13, and his schoolwork has gotten worse and worse. He can't remember anything, his handwriting is illegible, and his written work, even when typed, is terrible.
Lucky for me the meeting was at noon, because my pattern of feeling best midday is going strong.
Yesterday I left a message w/ the principal about my problems getting my son's transcripts and recommendations to the schools he's applying to in San Francisco. Yesterday I ran into his counselor in a yoga class, and today I talked to the guidance services secretary. Success, I think! They said they faxed the info to the two school, and I got a call from both the prinicipal and the guidance services secretary yesterday afternoon. I'll be calling the schools on Monday,
He's been diagnosed with AD/HD, distractive type, and a learning disability because of the difference between his verbal IQ (superior), other tests, and his written work. This means the school will start giving him much more individual attention. He may get occupational therapy to help with his terrible fine motor schools. And I'll be talking to my pdoc (who's actually a child psychiatrist) to get him a referral so he can get started on meds.
I think all these disorders--depression, GAD, AD/HD, probably my hypotension and chronic fatigue syndrome, and my mother's migraines (which were triggered by stress)--are genetically connected. It's so common for these things to run in families.
I hate myself for passing my genes on to my children. I think my daughter has "it" as well. She's very shy and fearful, but I think she's starting to get over it. She's 17. I hope if my kids can get treated earlier in life than I was then things will be better for them.
My son's best friend came over and stayed for dinner and a sleepover. I was much less irritable toward the boys then I used to be (maybe Risperdal has a hand in that) and even managed to chat with them through dinner. I talked with my daughter, too (she's living across the country now). My mind feels so blank, and I have nothing to talk about. (I don't go anywhere, don't do much, and even reading can be stressful for me.)
As expected, I got very tired, anxious, and depressed w/ suicidal ideation by evening. That's when I have the most hopeless and dysfunctional thoughts. I feel old and unsexy, with nothing to look forward too, and a lifetime of personal rejection. Maybe I should take Klonopin in the evening, too. I'm still resistant to taking it at times.
20 mg. of Marplan certainly isn't suppressing my REM sleep. I had strange dreams and woke up several times.
Today I go up to 30 mg. I already took my first 10, and I'll take the 20 in the evening.
Best wishes to all
Posted by cubbybear on February 22, 2004, at 1:46:49
In reply to Re: MAOI food and drug interactions » Ilene » cubbybear, posted by Ilene on February 21, 2004, at 8:10:28
> > >
> > It's very frustrating--sure the list was updated several years ago, but contradictions remain. Like you, I question the listing about mozarella--since I read on another source that fresh mozarella is OK. So long as contradictiions remain, MAOI users will have difficulty deciding what to do or not do in certain instances. I would very much like to try a small pizza in Pizza Hut with only plain mozarella,but still worry about this. Has ANYONE experienced a hypertensive reaction solely from eating fresh mozarella? Please come forward!
>
>
> Go for it!
>
> This looks good. .. er. .if you live around L.A., how about we meet at a local Pizza Hut? I'll be Mr. Parnate, you'll be Ms. Marplan, and your son can keep watch over both of us after we dig in.
Posted by cubbybear on February 22, 2004, at 1:52:04
In reply to Marplan Diary Day 9. Long and rambling, posted by Ilene on February 21, 2004, at 8:41:46
>>
> I hate myself for passing my genes on to my children.This sounds like typical self-blaming, which is a symptom of depression. There's no rational or scientific evidence for what you believe. Hopefully the Marplan will knock out these feelings. Therapy can also help.
Maybe I should take Klonopin in the evening, too. I'm still resistant to taking it at times.
>>
> Today I go up to 30 mg. I already took my first 10, and I'll take the 20 in the evening.If you experience insomnia from the Marplan, you can talk to your doctor about dividing the doses so you take some in the early morning, and the rest around lunchtime. And you can definitely take Klonopin for insomnia. I did it for months while on Parnate.
cubbybear
Posted by Ilene on February 22, 2004, at 7:34:43
In reply to Re: MAOI food and drug interactions » Ilene, posted by cubbybear on February 22, 2004, at 1:46:49
> > This looks good. .. er. .if you live around L.A., how about we meet at a local Pizza Hut? I'll be Mr. Parnate, you'll be Ms. Marplan, and your son can keep watch over both of us after we dig in.
Cubbybear, I thought you were female and lived in Thailand!
I grew up in L.A. but I live on the East Coast now. I'm moving to S.F. this summer. Is that close enough for you?
Ms. Marplan
Posted by Ilene on February 22, 2004, at 7:39:44
In reply to Re: Marplan Diary Day 9. Long and rambling » Ilene, posted by cubbybear on February 22, 2004, at 1:52:04
> >>
> > I hate myself for passing my genes on to my children.
>
> This sounds like typical self-blaming, which is a symptom of depression. There's no rational or scientific evidence for what you believe. Hopefully the Marplan will knock out these feelings. Therapy can also help.
>
Yes, it's typical self-blaming, but there is plenty of scientific evidence that mental illnesses cluster in families. My mother had an anxiety disorder, at the least, her sister was depressed, and that sister's son likely has a personality disorder. He's more than merely eccentric.I.
Posted by gardenergirl on February 22, 2004, at 8:53:19
In reply to Re: Marplan Diary Day 9. Long and rambling » Ilen » cubbybear, posted by Ilene on February 22, 2004, at 7:39:44
Ilene,
It sounds like you are getting better bit by bit every day. I'm glad that you were well enough to participate in your son's IEP. I really respect parents involved in their kids' education. It's great that he will be getting the services he needs. I hope that goes well.Thanks for posting the summary of all the dietary restrictions. Did you gather all that from the archives? Some seemed familiar. If so, that's a lot of work, but very valuable for MAOI newbies. For me, I am enjoying red wine again (no more than 2 glasses as I am a light weight). I never found a white wine that was a blissful as my favorite reds. Also, my first piece of pizza on Nardil was heaven. Thank god for provolone. I am addicted to pizza, and its so convenient when I get home from school late.
Only difficulty I have in dealing with the diet is when I go out to eat. Then there are so many questions to ask and you have to rely on the honesty and knowlege of the person answering. If I don't have a good feeling, I go for a simple sandwich or hamburger. The fewer the ingredients, the better.Good luck, take care, and keep posting!
gg
Posted by Maxime on February 22, 2004, at 13:49:41
In reply to Marplan Diary Day 9. Long and rambling, posted by Ilene on February 21, 2004, at 8:41:46
Irene, I just wanted to give you a hug (((( Irene))). Things are going to get better. I know it doesn't seem that way now, but they will. I think it's great that you are going out and trying to do things even when you feel like crap.
Hang in there. ((( Irene)))) - one more hug for the road.
Maxime
Posted by Ilene on February 22, 2004, at 19:44:28
In reply to Re: Marplan Diary Day 9. Long and rambling, posted by gardenergirl on February 22, 2004, at 8:53:19
> Thanks for posting the summary of all the dietary restrictions. Did you gather all that from the archives? Some seemed familiar. If so, that's a lot of work, but very valuable for MAOI newbies. For me, I am enjoying red wine again (no more than 2 glasses as I am a light weight). I never found a white wine that was a blissful as my favorite reds. Also, my first piece of pizza on Nardil was heaven. Thank god for provolone. I am addicted to pizza, and its so convenient when I get home from school late.
> Only difficulty I have in dealing with the diet is when I go out to eat. Then there are so many questions to ask and you have to rely on the honesty and knowlege of the person answering. If I don't have a good feeling, I go for a simple sandwich or hamburger. The fewer the ingredients, the better.
>
I'm glad you got some worth from the diet info. Most of it came from the book I mentioned. The rest came from PubMed and a couple of internet articles. Some of this stuff has also been posted on Babble, which is why it's familiar.You should be able to eat a salad in a restaurant . Just pick out the cheese. Indian food should be okay, too, even the cheese, because it's fresh. I *love* Indian food. I love Chinese and Japanese food, too, but that's going to be off-limits for a while.
I can't say I've gotten used to American cheese but I've been eating a lot of it. It's bland and gooey, which sometimes I need when my stomach is upset. Most of the frozen things that I use when I don't want to cook are stir-fries that contain soy sauce, but the packets are small, so maybe I'll try a mini-serving.
Posted by Ilene on February 22, 2004, at 19:46:47
In reply to Re: Marplan Diary Day 9. Long and rambling, posted by Maxime on February 22, 2004, at 13:49:41
> Irene, I just wanted to give you a hug (((( Irene))). Things are going to get better. I know it doesn't seem that way now, but they will. I think it's great that you are going out and trying to do things even when you feel like crap.
>
> Hang in there. ((( Irene)))) - one more hug for the road.
>
> MaximeThat was so sweet. I started crying.
Posted by Ilene on February 22, 2004, at 20:14:17
In reply to Marplan Diary, posted by Ilene on February 19, 2004, at 8:52:49
Yesterday was my first day at 30 mg: 10 in the morning, 20 at night.
I got very anxious yesterday. The Klonopin didn't help much. One of my goals is to leave the house each day. I took a short walk to drop off my son's soccer sign-up sheet. I didn't enjoy it.
I took my 2 Marplan and went to bed a little early. I didn't sleep very well and dreamed more than usual. So much for suppression of REM sleep. I got all worried about it, of course.
Today I took 20 mg. Marplan in the morning because I didn't like what happened last night. I didn't take any K in the morning, took my son to Sunday School and did my usual shopping. Had a nice little chat about the Mel Gibson "Passion" movie with my favorite Sunday School dad. Anxiety struck anyway. I took my K when I got home.
Called friend with whom I had a shopping date. She was asleep because she had partied until the wee hours. I told her BF that was okay, I thought we could defer our date for a weekday because the subway is being single-tracked and there are long delays on the weekend. She just got laid off, so I think she'll have some free time.
IMed my husband. He was nice today. It felt good to chat with him; helped me calm down. Tried to restring a necklace but lost some of the beads when I was all but done. That just made the anxiety worse, even though I wasn't pissed at myself for dropping the beads. Strange.
Took some more K. at dinner time, discovered one of the cats had taken a dump on my bed. I've been having litter-box problems with her. She's too scared of the other cat to go downstairs. Lucky she didn't pee.
I feel better now. I'm not as tired as usual, maybe because I haven't taken my Risperdal yet.
I don't get much done around the house when I'm anxious. I can't even read too much, because I compare myself with everyone I read about, or the things are too sad. I made the mistake of reading a magazine story about a poet who stabbed herself and her 2-yr-old son to death. Once I read the blurb it didn't matter whether I read it or not. Life seems so sad to me all the the time. People get old and sick and die. Suffering is just so overpowering. It didn't used to be this way.
Posted by oskarsmom on February 22, 2004, at 20:52:59
In reply to Marplan Diary Day 10, posted by Ilene on February 22, 2004, at 20:14:17
Hi Ilene,
Thanks so much for posting your experiences. I just don't have the energy. Endless depression, but suprisingly anxiety has been a bit better. I'm up to 30 mgs now for the past few days. Will talk with the doc on Tuesday. I assume we'll increase the dose at that time. Side effects seem to have subsided for now. Wanted you to know that I'm thinking of you. Keep on posting.
oskarsmom
Posted by cubbybear on February 23, 2004, at 3:23:36
In reply to Re: MAOI food and drug interactions » Ilene » cubbybear, posted by Ilene on February 22, 2004, at 7:34:43
>
> Cubbybear, I thought you were female and lived in Thailand!
>
> I grew up in L.A. but I live on the East Coast now. I'm moving to S.F. this summer. Is that close enough for you?
>
> Ms. MarplanI was joking, and e-mail makes it sound serious! Actually, you're half right. I do live in Thailand but am a member of the male species. I have to go back to the U.S. every year to pick up a year's supply of Parnate and visit my family.
Posted by Ilene on February 23, 2004, at 21:14:26
In reply to Marplan Diary Day 10, posted by Ilene on February 22, 2004, at 20:14:17
Third day at 30 mg. Today was better. I'm not going to get my hopes up because I remember feeling all "cured" last Wednesday, but things were manageable today and I hope it continues.
I put off taking my morning Klonopin until about 11 AM because I wanted to go to a yoga class at noon. I don't really like this teacher. She can be snappish. She was nice, though, and I could've done w/out the Klonopin.
Puttered around looking for some papers I had misplaced. Managed to do some filing as a result. Took my son to get his hair cut. Both of us got haircuts. Now it's time for hot chocolate and beddiebye.
I.
Posted by Ilene on February 24, 2004, at 21:07:10
In reply to Marplan Diary Day 11, posted by Ilene on February 23, 2004, at 21:14:26
Fourth day at 30 mg. Ugh. Not such a good day. Depressed and anxious. Everything was a chore.
Finally succumbed and put a litter box in the powder room, where it can stink everything up. Maybe now I can take the oilcloth off the couch. Interior decoration is not a priority here.
Went to yoga again. Almost didn't take my Klonopin, but did right before I left. It was a good idea. Took more in the afternoon.
Got a couple of letters out to the schools to which my son is applying and got a few groceries. Watched Nova with my son. Wondering at what age a child will not be excessively traumatized by a parent's suicide. Guilt is my reason for living.
Posted by cubbybear on February 25, 2004, at 3:23:59
In reply to Marplan Diary Day 12, posted by Ilene on February 24, 2004, at 21:07:10
> Wondering at what age a child will not be excessively traumatized by a parent's suicide.
None. An adult will be traumatized by the suicide of anyone whom he/she knows, no matter what the relationship Multply the trauma a thousandfold if a child of any age has to deal with it, and a millionfold if it involved a parent. If your suicidal ideation is frequent or touches upon a plan, you MUST talk to your dr.!
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