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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Emme on December 28, 2003, at 23:36:14
This is getting a little freaky. Creepy. I constantly feel like I am walking around in a dream. Like nothing is real. I don't like the sound of my voice because it sounds detached from my body. This has been going on for a couple of days. I've had this before, but to a milder degree and for shorter periods of time (like maybe an hour or two when tired).
I am guessing it must be stress-related. I'm worried about a lot of things and feel like my life is going to become a disaster. No hallucinations, and I'm able to interact normally with people even though I feel verrry odd.
Other people feel this? What do you do for this?? I don't really want to bother my pdoc during her week off at home, especially if it would requre a med change - I'd want to discuss it in the office.
I think it will cause an extra suicide risk - if life feels so unreal, then it would be easier to dispense with it. But I'm not about to do anything (I do have New Year's plans after all), so going to a hospital really isn't necessary at the moment. I guess I just want to hear what someone else has to say about it. Thanks.
Posted by Camille Dumont on December 29, 2003, at 0:34:39
In reply to depersonalization? derealization?, posted by Emme on December 28, 2003, at 23:36:14
Hi, I've had and still have some depersonalization issues in that, I feel myself as being detached from my body and slightly behind ... sort of observing an "automaton" going about its business.
What you describe sounds more like derealization in that its not you but the world that becomes strange.
I've been told that those symptoms can be side effects from depression and / or a reaction to stress of some sort.
For me, stress definately help push the trigger. As of yet, meds are not doing much to help but I've found that I can avoid some episodes if I act quickly. See, when it starts, there is a small period of time when I feel myself going "inside and outside my body" ... back and forth a few times before I leave for good. During that time, what I try to do is grab the nearest thing ... a stappler, a book, the edge of the desk, or whatever ... and squeeze it as hard as I can while shutting my eyes. If I concentrate on the slight pain in the muscles from holding so hard and try to tell myself that everything is alright and not to panic ... sometimes it stops the episode from happening.
But this is simply my experience ... you should definately talk to your T. about it ... as she knows you and your case, she might be able to suggest solutions or coping strategies.
Good luck and keep us posted
Posted by rompy on December 29, 2003, at 19:56:46
In reply to Re: depersonalization? derealization?, posted by Camille Dumont on December 29, 2003, at 0:34:39
Don't feel alone. I feel that way alot.
It's like something from a Kafka novel.
But I think I damaged my brain... with don't laugh, I'm serious...marijuana back in the 70's.
Ativan helped me a lot, as did alchohol. But I became a drunk and have been sober for the last 14 years. I think a lot of it is could be stress, and a lot of it could be be the mere fact that you possibly are "observing your conscienceness".
When I forget to observe my thought processes and chill out with some ativan, I simply don't notice and everything is ok.
But we're all different, unfortunately and my comments are probably worthless.
Posted by Emme on December 29, 2003, at 22:25:22
In reply to Re: depersonalization? derealization?, posted by Camille Dumont on December 29, 2003, at 0:34:39
Thanks Camille and Rompy,
Yeah, Kafka-esque sounds about right. I'm still in the land of surreal. You are both probably right that it's stress-induced. I wonder if a benzo would help me like the ativan does for rompy. I wonder what else would help. I'm trying to fend off the suicidal ideation. With everything seeming so bizarre, I'm feeling a bit detached about it. It's almost like thinking about, say, buying a car: should I get a Honda or a Toyota? Should I stay or should I go? (No, don't worry, nothing in the works tonight...).
The suggestion about grabbing something for sensation got me thinking. If I could play the piano it might help by distracting me, and providing some really hard-core and direct sensory input. Maybe I don't have the concentration for it. I don't know. 'Course I don't have a piano in my apt.....
I won't see my pdoc for another 3 weeks. If this gets more annoying, I guess I'll call her sometime next week.
Emme
Posted by Elle2021 on December 30, 2003, at 5:54:58
In reply to depersonalization? derealization?, posted by Emme on December 28, 2003, at 23:36:14
Yes, I have experienced that. It's common among people with axiety problems. It might be helpful to ask your doctor for an anti-anxiety, like Ativan (Lorazepam). This seems to help my depersonalization. I don't get it as often anymore, but it is definitely a feeling I don't miss. You mentioned it might make it easier to commit suicide. I don't think I ever felt like killing myself while I was experiencing it, that might be something to discuss with your doctor.
Elle
> This is getting a little freaky. Creepy. I constantly feel like I am walking around in a dream. Like nothing is real. I don't like the sound of my voice because it sounds detached from my body. This has been going on for a couple of days. I've had this before, but to a milder degree and for shorter periods of time (like maybe an hour or two when tired).
>
> I am guessing it must be stress-related. I'm worried about a lot of things and feel like my life is going to become a disaster. No hallucinations, and I'm able to interact normally with people even though I feel verrry odd.
>
> Other people feel this? What do you do for this?? I don't really want to bother my pdoc during her week off at home, especially if it would requre a med change - I'd want to discuss it in the office.
> I think it will cause an extra suicide risk - if life feels so unreal, then it would be easier to dispense with it. But I'm not about to do anything (I do have New Year's plans after all), so going to a hospital really isn't necessary at the moment. I guess I just want to hear what someone else has to say about it. Thanks.
>
>
Posted by thinkfast on December 30, 2003, at 6:36:39
In reply to Re: depersonalization? derealization? » Emme, posted by Elle2021 on December 30, 2003, at 5:54:58
> Yes, I have experienced that. It's common among people with axiety problems. It might be helpful to ask your doctor for an anti-anxiety, like Ativan (Lorazepam). This seems to help my depersonalization. I don't get it as often anymore, but it is definitely a feeling I don't miss. You mentioned it might make it easier to commit suicide. I don't think I ever felt like killing myself while I was experiencing it, that might be something to discuss with your doctor.
>
> Elle
>
>
> > This is getting a little freaky. Creepy. I constantly feel like I am walking around in a dream. Like nothing is real. I don't like the sound of my voice because it sounds detached from my body. This has been going on for a couple of days. I've had this before, but to a milder degree and for shorter periods of time (like maybe an hour or two when tired).
> >
> > I am guessing it must be stress-related. I'm worried about a lot of things and feel like my life is going to become a disaster. No hallucinations, and I'm able to interact normally with people even though I feel verrry odd.
> >
> > Other people feel this? What do you do for this?? I don't really want to bother my pdoc during her week off at home, especially if it would requre a med change - I'd want to discuss it in the office.
> > I think it will cause an extra suicide risk - if life feels so unreal, then it would be easier to dispense with it. But I'm not about to do anything (I do have New Year's plans after all), so going to a hospital really isn't necessary at the moment. I guess I just want to hear what someone else has to say about it. Thanks.
> >
> >
>
>I don't know if this will be helpfull or not..The moments when I have felt that, I decided to go with the flow. It was almost as seeing everything as someone else would see it. I looked around the room at my things, and had a small sense of enlightenment(even though it felt as strange as dejavu). I'm always wondering what other people think of me anyway.Lol. Yeah, it felt weird, but it passed after a while...just don't panic, is really all I'm trying to say. Good post!
Posted by LynneDa on December 30, 2003, at 15:13:03
In reply to Re: depersonalization? derealization?, posted by thinkfast on December 30, 2003, at 6:36:39
Hi! I'm wondering about these concepts you mention. My daughter is 7 and she asks me at least twice a month, "Mommy is this a dream or this real life?" She's done this since she was about 5. She's a bit of a dramatic, highly creative, has some ADD qualities but teachers and pedi. don't think she has it, a Mom with depression (me) and Dad with depression, possibly bi-polar, and OCD. She is dead serious when she asks this. It doesn't seem to bother her, but she just wants affirmation one way or the other. Then she says OK and goes on. It is worrying me. What do you all think? Is this similar to what you are experiencing? Thanks for any thoughts!
~ Lynne
Posted by Emme on December 30, 2003, at 16:44:06
In reply to Re: depersonalization? derealization? Causes?, posted by LynneDa on December 30, 2003, at 15:13:03
> Hi! I'm wondering about these concepts you mention. My daughter is 7 and she asks me at least twice a month, "Mommy is this a dream or this real life?" She's done this since she was about 5. She's a bit of a dramatic, highly creative, has some ADD qualities but teachers and pedi. don't think she has it, a Mom with depression (me) and Dad with depression, possibly bi-polar, and OCD. She is dead serious when she asks this. It doesn't seem to bother her, but she just wants affirmation one way or the other. Then she says OK and goes on. It is worrying me. What do you all think? Is this similar to what you are experiencing? Thanks for any thoughts!
> ~ Lynne
>
>
Yeah, that sounds similar. Plus my body seems a little "foreign" to me, though not to the point of feeling like I'm floating out of it. I can see why this would scare you. Have you mentioned it to your pediatrician?You have just brought to mind childhood memories of looking down at my hands and feeling like I was looking at someone else's hands, like they were not part of my body. My memory's a bit fuzzy, but I don't think it happened all the time. It didn't scare me and I doubt it would last more than a few minutes.
This makes me wonder how many of us had some sort of precursors to our current problems when we were kids. But I'm not sure that as a kid I had the kind of anxiety that seems to be triggering it now.
Looking back on some notes, the last time I complained of this (it was shorter-lived and milder that time) my pdoc said it was related to serotonin dysregulation.
Emme
Posted by LynneDa on December 31, 2003, at 12:57:44
In reply to Re: depersonalization? derealization? Causes? » LynneDa, posted by Emme on December 30, 2003, at 16:44:06
Emme - Thank you very much for your response, especially about the serotonin. I do need to talk to her pediatrician, but am sort of afraid he'll think I'm worrying over nothing - he's that kind of a guy. I think I'll talk to my therapist about it. One of her partners treats many children. I hate to get my daughter under the microscope if it's not necessary, but the alternative of growing up with a disorder that's progressive is not a good one either! But, she does have some social issues - her hyperactivity turns people off. Thanks again and good luck to you!
Happy New Year!
~ Lynne
Posted by nicky847 on December 31, 2003, at 13:08:11
In reply to Re: depersonalization? derealization? Causes? » LynneDa, posted by Emme on December 30, 2003, at 16:44:06
When my anxiety/depressions symptoms are at their worst I experience this as well...my theory is that when we sleep/dream we are in the melatonin stage of the serotonin/melatonin conversion cycle..so while we are asleep our brains have a shortage of serotonin..because it has been converted to melatonin which is the chemical which makes us go to sleep..
when you are suffering from depression you may also have a serotonin deficiency..similar to how it is when you are sleeping..your brain draws a parallel between these two states and begins to think you are in a dream state...plus theres no melatonin either..so you dont feel at ease with it..
this is all just a theory and based on no real research..but i think there might be something there..
> > Hi! I'm wondering about these concepts you mention. My daughter is 7 and she asks me at least twice a month, "Mommy is this a dream or this real life?" She's done this since she was about 5. She's a bit of a dramatic, highly creative, has some ADD qualities but teachers and pedi. don't think she has it, a Mom with depression (me) and Dad with depression, possibly bi-polar, and OCD. She is dead serious when she asks this. It doesn't seem to bother her, but she just wants affirmation one way or the other. Then she says OK and goes on. It is worrying me. What do you all think? Is this similar to what you are experiencing? Thanks for any thoughts!
> > ~ Lynne
> >
> >
> Yeah, that sounds similar. Plus my body seems a little "foreign" to me, though not to the point of feeling like I'm floating out of it. I can see why this would scare you. Have you mentioned it to your pediatrician?
>
> You have just brought to mind childhood memories of looking down at my hands and feeling like I was looking at someone else's hands, like they were not part of my body. My memory's a bit fuzzy, but I don't think it happened all the time. It didn't scare me and I doubt it would last more than a few minutes.
>
> This makes me wonder how many of us had some sort of precursors to our current problems when we were kids. But I'm not sure that as a kid I had the kind of anxiety that seems to be triggering it now.
>
> Looking back on some notes, the last time I complained of this (it was shorter-lived and milder that time) my pdoc said it was related to serotonin dysregulation.
>
> Emme
>
>
Posted by Steve3211 on December 31, 2003, at 16:44:50
In reply to Re: depersonalization? derealization?, posted by rompy on December 29, 2003, at 19:56:46
> Don't feel alone. I feel that way alot.
> It's like something from a Kafka novel.
> But I think I damaged my brain... with don't laugh, I'm serious...marijuana back in the 70's.
> Ativan helped me a lot, as did alchohol. But I became a drunk and have been sober for the last 14 years. I think a lot of it is could be stress, and a lot of it could be be the mere fact that you possibly are "observing your conscienceness".
> When I forget to observe my thought processes and chill out with some ativan, I simply don't notice and everything is ok.
> But we're all different, unfortunately and my comments are probably worthless.
Rompy,How was your experience quitting alcohol. I quit smoking pot and it was a bad time. I just quit drinking about 5 weeks ago and is happening again. Very high levels of anxiety and depression. Thanks
Steve
Posted by Emme on December 31, 2003, at 17:55:03
In reply to Re: depersonalization? derealization? Causes?, posted by LynneDa on December 31, 2003, at 12:57:44
> Emme - Thank you very much for your response, especially about the serotonin. I do need to talk to her pediatrician, but am sort of afraid he'll think I'm worrying over nothing - he's that kind of a guy. I think I'll talk to my therapist about it. One of her partners treats many children. I hate to get my daughter under the microscope if it's not necessary, but the alternative of growing up with a disorder that's progressive is not a good one either! But, she does have some social issues - her hyperactivity turns people off. Thanks again and good luck to you!
>
> Happy New Year!
> ~ LynneHi Lynne,
If it makes you feel any better, my weird childhood sensations weren't obtrusive and didn't last my whole childhood - it faded out as I got to be a bigger kid. I certainly don't remember any such things in junior high for example. I'm not sure it would have been worth doing anything about it as a kid since it wasn't a "problem" per se. It never occurred to me to say anything about it to my parents because it was sporadic and not scary. If I'd been scared, then I guess that would have been another thing. So maybe it was a hint of a precursor to what I'm experiencing now, but I don't believe it was anything to sweat about when I was little.
I don't mean to say that you shouldn't talk to your therapist and keep an eye on it, and it sounds like her hyperactivity deserves attention. But try not to be too frightened.
Happy New Year to you too.
Emme
Posted by LynneDa on January 2, 2004, at 10:43:28
In reply to Re: depersonalization? derealization? Causes?, posted by nicky847 on December 31, 2003, at 13:08:11
Nicky - Thanks for those thoughts. I didn't realize there was a serotonin/melatonin conversion happening to allow us to sleep. She has allergies and therefore some some breathing problems at night. I have been wondering if she has some sort of sleep deprivation problem that contributes to some of her behaviors. Thank you for your insight, every bit of knowledge I get really helps create a better picture :-)
~ Lynne
Posted by LynneDa on January 2, 2004, at 10:45:09
In reply to Re: depersonalization? derealization? Causes? » LynneDa, posted by Emme on December 31, 2003, at 17:55:03
Posted by nicky847 on January 2, 2004, at 13:32:45
In reply to Re: depersonalization? derealization? Causes?, posted by LynneDa on January 2, 2004, at 10:43:28
No problem...yes there is a continuous serotonin/melatonin conversion cycle that occurs in the brain which regulates our sleepfulness/wakefulness patterns..that is why it is common for depressed people to wake up early and not be able to get back to sleep..the melatonin in their brain has all been converted back to seratonin..b/c they have a shortage of seratonin..if she has breathing problems that interfere with her ability to get a restful nights sleep this could be leading to her conversion cycle being disrupted..
> Nicky - Thanks for those thoughts. I didn't realize there was a serotonin/melatonin conversion happening to allow us to sleep. She has allergies and therefore some some breathing problems at night. I have been wondering if she has some sort of sleep deprivation problem that contributes to some of her behaviors. Thank you for your insight, every bit of knowledge I get really helps create a better picture :-)
> ~ Lynne
Posted by JohnFromCalifornia on January 2, 2004, at 21:49:52
In reply to depersonalization? derealization?, posted by Emme on December 28, 2003, at 23:36:14
> This is getting a little freaky. Creepy. I constantly feel like I am walking around in a dream. Like nothing is real. I don't like the sound of my voice because it sounds detached from my body.
Emme,are you in your twenties by any chance? I had episodes like yours frequently then. Pure anxiety. I had REALLY nasty panic attacks. But nobody talked about that stuff in those days (70s). I didn't get treatement and it went away on its own.
I continue to suffer from depression though, and some lower-level anxiety. My recommendation would be to find a top-notch p-doc and work with them. My life has worked out pretty well (I'm in my mid-50s now) but I still need help on this end. Thank goodness for the new meds that are coming along.
Isn't this a great board? Good luck and hang in there!
- John
Posted by Emme on January 2, 2004, at 23:53:56
In reply to Re: depersonalization? derealization?, posted by JohnFromCalifornia on January 2, 2004, at 21:49:52
> > This is getting a little freaky. Creepy. I constantly feel like I am walking around in a dream. Like nothing is real. I don't like the sound of my voice because it sounds detached from my body.
>
> Emme,are you in your twenties by any chance? I had episodes like yours frequently then. Pure anxiety. I had REALLY nasty panic attacks. But nobody talked about that stuff in those days (70s). I didn't get treatement and it went away on its own.Actually no, I'm in my thirties. I did have panic attacks in my twenties. Nasty things that would wake me up in the middle of the night with an electric zinging sensation down my spine and then the full blown attack would set in, complete with an adrenaline rush from hell. I was lucky - it only went on for a few months. Since then, I only get one once every few years. What I'm feeling now isn't an anxiety attack (thank goodness!), but I'm sure it's anxiety related.
> I continue to suffer from depression though, and some lower-level anxiety. My recommendation would be to find a top-notch p-doc and work with them.
I'm lucky there. She's a top notch psychopharmacologist. I've been putting off calling her because I know she's taking a break for the holidays and I didn't think this qualified as a full-blown emergency, though it's definitely creepy. I'll see her in a couple of weeks unless I can't stand it and try to get in sooner.
> My life has worked out pretty well (I'm in my mid-50s now) but I still need help on this end. Thank goodness for the new meds that are coming along.
I'm glad to hear things are going well enough for you despite any lingering problems.
> Isn't this a great board? Good luck and hang in there!
Thank you.
Emme
Posted by katia on January 3, 2004, at 19:33:43
In reply to Re: depersonalization? derealization? » JohnFromCalifornia, posted by Emme on January 2, 2004, at 23:53:56
This is a timely thread as I've been having this lately too. It hasn't happened in a long long while. I"m 33 and I used to have this derealization/disassociation a lot as a kid and teenager, which leads to a panic attack. Don't know the correct term for it, but what I've experienced sounds similar to what you have. I've been under a lot of stress too lately and very busy. I'm on Lamictal and Lithium and wonder if it's the Lam. causing anxiety. I just have to stay calm during it knowing I'm not going crazy, but it'll pass. I wait tables and it happened at work. It's such a strange feeling and so hard to describe. It happens suddenly - I was walking to a table to greet them and it felt like I walked into a dream and was outside my body simultaneously. I remained calm and just said what I always say but it didn't feel like it was coming from my mouth. I've been in and out of this state for awhile now - week(s)? it's so bizarre. It's also very wierd and I get freaked out that my visual consciousness of the world somehow is behind my eyes - these two holes - like there's this body underneath this visual - I can't explain it. And this is without drugs!. Lately, the anxiety has led to outbursts of rage and anger/agitation like an uncontrollable temper tantrum.
As of today, I got the rash from Lamictal - pretty scary. I hope that it is the benign type. I'm off of Lamictal as of tomorrow as I already took it today before I noticed the rash. It's all over my body.
Katia
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