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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Mr. Scott on December 21, 2003, at 22:15:06
I'm sorry to say it, but most of psychiatry is a bunch of hoo-haa when it comes to the 'working wounded.'
While psychiatry has made terrific advances in the treatment of 'flaming' symptoms such as mania and acute psychoses, or severe depression, they sure haven't done much for those of us (like me) who are lost in the cracks.
Great new marketing schemes, psychiatric categories and anticonvulsants aside, I've yet to see much help in over a decade of psychiatric consultation.
I've seen a lot of bills though for office visits leading me nowhere. I've seen benzodiazepine and SSRI dependence. I've seen my own search for the magic elixir land me in AA, and I've seen every side effect from weight gain and cholesterol increase, to agitation and anxiety, to a swollen face and a bowel with a mind of its own.
I'm very disenchanted with all this. I am mostly depressed and occassionally hypomanic (but ONLY upon antidepressant use). Take away the AD and I'm depressed. Leave the AD in and I get side effects or AGITATION. Add an anticonvulsant and I get side effects. Add a benzo and get hooked. Do this and get that.
Damn it already... Can I get some lasting help from anyone or anything either on this planet or beyond? Because if not I see NO DAMN POINT!
Scott
(Good looking, Intelligent, Successfull, and Occassionally Suicidal)
Posted by sb417 on December 21, 2003, at 22:44:52
In reply to Fumbling in the Darkness (Me Psychiatry), posted by Mr. Scott on December 21, 2003, at 22:15:06
My sentiments exactly, only you said it much better than I could have. If I had put it in my words, I would have been "PBC'd." I'm sorry I can't help you, but I thank you for making me feel less alone.
Posted by Lazarus on December 21, 2003, at 23:08:24
In reply to Fumbling in the Darkness (Me Psychiatry), posted by Mr. Scott on December 21, 2003, at 22:15:06
If you don't want to take medication then accept who you are and go with that.
In the days before tranquilizers, antidepressants, anticonvulsants, etc., people with mood disorders wrote about their joy and sorrow. The French poet Paul Verlaine wrote eloquently about the pain he experienced whenever it rained in Paris. "It rains on the city like it crys in my heart, what is this sadness which penetrates my heart?" Emotions are part of the human experience; don't negate their importance.
Lazarus
Posted by David Smith on December 21, 2003, at 23:17:25
In reply to Re: Fumbling in the Darkness, posted by Lazarus on December 21, 2003, at 23:08:24
Posted by socialdeviantjeff on December 22, 2003, at 2:04:15
In reply to Fumbling in the Darkness (Me Psychiatry), posted by Mr. Scott on December 21, 2003, at 22:15:06
Man, I know how you feel. Moodwise, I have the same issues. Medwise, I have very similar issues. I think it's extremely frustrating. Pdocs have a much bigger arsenal than even 10 years ago, but for some of us in the "fringe", they are still shooting in the dark, just with bigger guns.
Just to relate, it's easy for me to lose perspective, then I think about what psychiatry was like even in the last century. Deliberately induced insulin comas, ice baths, clueless shock therapy, lobotomies, starvation, unneccesary hospitalization, subhuman living conditions, etc.
When I think about that, I resent the modern medicine issue a little less. sure it sucks. Nobody has concrete answers on the brain's hows or whys. But if medicine keeps advancing at it's current rate, then there may be hope for ones like us.
Take care
Posted by stjames on December 22, 2003, at 16:12:06
In reply to Fumbling in the Darkness (Me Psychiatry), posted by Mr. Scott on December 21, 2003, at 22:15:06
I have been seeing pdocs for 20 years. I choose to see excellent docs so pdocs have given me clueful care for 20 years.
Posted by gabbix2 on December 22, 2003, at 22:06:35
In reply to Re: Fumbling in the Darkness (Me Psychiatry), posted by stjames on December 22, 2003, at 16:12:06
Are you saying that if you are not being helped it is because you are not choosing an excellent pdoc?
Posted by sailor on December 22, 2003, at 22:48:05
In reply to Re: Fumbling in the Darkness (Me Psychiatry) » stjames, posted by gabbix2 on December 22, 2003, at 22:06:35
The greatest threat to recovery, improvement or "cure", I believe is loss of hope and quitting the battle. I heartily concur that psychopharmacology is a very inexact science, that drug companies are ultimately more interested in profit than any specific person's welfare, and that many pdocs are less informed (and motivated) than their suffering clients. However, we are all like rats in a maze unable to see where the piece of cheese is hidden. Our greatest asset is persistence...refusal to quit. Thanks to forums such as this, I am constantly reminded that any person's successful strategy may be just around the corner. And we give each other valuable clues, if not specific roadmaps for hitting upon the cheese. I am 57, diagnosed 30 years ago with major depression, with periods of successful medication, and currently struggling with med trials to try to escape from a 2-year down period. I'm currently in the early stages of a Parnate trial (never tried it before). Posts from Parnate and other maoi users have been invaluable to me to give me focus and feedback to take back to my prescriber. I am depressed for now, but hopeful, and still with plans B,C, etc. if the Parnate doesn't work. Regards. Sailor
Posted by Camille Dumont on December 22, 2003, at 23:46:39
In reply to Re: Fumbling in the Darkness (Me Psychiatry), posted by sailor on December 22, 2003, at 22:48:05
I've jumbled with similar thoughts and I still face the wall of : whats the meaning of life, what does it matter, why choose to live?
It seems so hopeless to try and trick the brain into making you feel good ... it seems like its only putting a bandaid on a gaping wound ... only delaying the worse.
Then it occured to me that perhaps my quest for a cure (in meds and otherwise) is doomed to fail because I'm attacking a symptom (wanting to die) rather than the cause (my brain who seems to need to make me feel crappy and wanting to die).
It also occured to me that perhaps life has no meaning but rather IS the meaning of existence. That perhaps if I find a way to feel like I am worthwile, to find something that will make me feel as though I am trully living, as though I am actively engaged in the pursuit of life, then perhaps my brain will cease to send me those messages of death.
Its hard not to see the parallel between depression / suicide and the cells of our bodies. When they become useless, they self-destruct. When humans cease to be fertile, they slowly "decay" and eventually die ... it goes for prutty much everything that lives. Then, why are our brains telling us to die? Could it be that we seem useless? That we don't have a purpose?
Its just an idea ... perhaps I`m wrong, perhaps I`m psychotic ... but in a way it gives me hope that if I find something meaningfull to work on, then I'll finally put a permanent damm on the flow or dark thoughts ... rather than putting bandaids or numbing my brain with pills...
Posted by gabbix2 on December 23, 2003, at 0:36:11
In reply to Re: Fumbling in the Darkness, posted by Lazarus on December 21, 2003, at 23:08:24
> If you don't want to take medication then accept who you are and go with that.
I think for most, the very nature of depression precludes self acceptance
> The French poet Paul Verlaine wrote eloquently about the pain he experienced whenever it rained in Paris. "It rains on the city like it crys in my heart, what is this sadness which penetrates my heart?"I'm sorry Paul got sad when it rained in Paris but I suspect if one gets any recreational melanchokux pleasure from writing about their sadness then they are not, at the moment suffering from depression.
During the and 17th and Early 18th Century depression was romanticized and often those wanting to be seen as deep thinkers affected its attributes.Other writers and artists were incapacitated
by depression, lived in poverty and were dangerous to themselves or others; this is more than emotion. Lets not forget Depression can be far more than sadness it is for many mind bending terror.
Emotion which as a natural reaction is to be celebratedEmotional reactions that arrive out nowhere are disorienting and agonizing to the point of being debilitating, especially when we do not have the luxury of waiting them out.
Posted by KimberlyDi on December 23, 2003, at 11:50:23
In reply to Fumbling in the Darkness (Me Psychiatry), posted by Mr. Scott on December 21, 2003, at 22:15:06
Posted by KimberlyDi on December 23, 2003, at 12:39:59
In reply to Re: Fumbling in the Darkness (Me Psychiatry), posted by Camille Dumont on December 22, 2003, at 23:46:39
What's the law of the jungle? Kill or Be Killed? Only the Strong Survive? During Natural Selection, the strong and healthy survive to have offspring that carry on their positive traits. We've eliminated Natural Selection. The strong, the weak, the insane, almost everyone will survive due to the miracles of modern science. (This is NOT suggesting a belief that only the strong should survive, rather just stating the results of the right to life.) It is sad that we seem to expend so much energy fighting battles in our minds.
Enough pondering for now. Happiness is elusive. Success should be measured, not by money or prestige, rather by the difference one makes in the lives of people around them. You are what you give, not get.
Posted by Camille Dumont on December 23, 2003, at 14:54:39
In reply to Interesting Thoughts » Camille Dumont, posted by KimberlyDi on December 23, 2003, at 12:39:59
I somehow find it oh so ironic that in our quest to make sure that everyone can enjoy the "right to live", as morally-sound an intention it may be, our biggest enemy could turn out to be our own bodies who still cling to a more primitive selection criteria.
Posted by Mr. Scott on December 24, 2003, at 10:29:28
In reply to Re: Fumbling in the Darkness » Lazarus, posted by gabbix2 on December 23, 2003, at 0:36:11
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 24, 2003, at 15:57:11
In reply to Interesting Thoughts » Camille Dumont, posted by KimberlyDi on December 23, 2003, at 12:39:59
> What's the law of the jungle? ...
I'd like to redirect follow-ups not about medication to Psycho-Social-Babble. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20031217/msgs/293171.html
Thanks,
Bob
This is the end of the thread.
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