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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 4 of 4. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by maryhelen on December 4, 2003, at 21:27:33
Hi Ace:
I am in a state of very serious depression. I have been taking Nardil since November 3rd. I was supposed to start with 15 mg. for one week and then 30 mg. the next week. Although I do not post often I do read them frequently and have followed your experiences. I went with what you advised which was 45 mg. for the first week and 60 mg. weeks 2 - 6, which is where I am with it now. Although, I am feeling seriously depressed and discouraged, I am going to go the distance with the Nardil. I do have some questions however, and wonder if you would be able to give me your opinion:
1) I had just returned to my job after a 2 1/2 year sick leave dealing with the depression, only to have been 'hit' with it again. My boss was not compassionate or caring enough to help me get through it but has made impossible and unneccesary demands on me and it has become impossible for me to continue. I ended up with so much stress, anxiety, chest pains and tightness (something that was never part of my depression) that I took myself to hospital to make sure I wasn't having a heart attack. Heart is fine. I won't continue with the difficulties presented at work, but have come away with such a feeling of inadequacy, sense of worthlesness, hopelesness and I am sure an underlying anger, of which I have not been able to feel yet. My question is, if I am dealing with a situational depression over the loss of my job (and probably my apartment) can the Nardil break through and help. It probably sounds like a strange question, as why else would we be taking meds, but normally I have been a depressed person for no 'apparent' reason for most of my life. Been through the mill with meds, ECT, hospitalizations, counselling, talk therapy ....... I was taking Parnate for 2 years but did not find it to be very effective. 8 months ago my pdoc added Lamitcal to the Parnate. The Lamitcal worked remarkably fast and within a week I felt better that I ever had in my 51 years. Unfortunately, this was to be short lived and after 3 weeks the Lamitcal stopped working. We adjusted the dose from 150mg. to 200 and then to 300. but after 8 months my doctor suggested to come off both the Parnate and Lamitcal slowly and to try Nardil. I hope I am making some sort of sense.
2) I have chronic pain from arthritis, degenerative disc disease and osteoporosis. Although I try not to, I take up to 10 percocets a day. These pills also help a bit with the depression as well as some of the pain. My question is, do you think that this type of opiate would work against what the Nardil is trying to do?
Any comments, Ace, would be very much appreciate. I hope things are going well with you.
maryhelen
Posted by ace on December 7, 2003, at 22:23:52
In reply to Ace, please help ...., posted by maryhelen on December 4, 2003, at 21:27:33
> Hi Ace:
>
> I am in a state of very serious depression. I have been taking Nardil since November 3rd. I was supposed to start with 15 mg. for one week and then 30 mg. the next week. Although I do not post often I do read them frequently and have followed your experiences. I went with what you advised which was 45 mg. for the first week and 60 mg. weeks 2 - 6, which is where I am with it now.OK, my suggestion is now, right now, raise the dose right up to 90mg. Not 75mg. 90mg.
Although, I am feeling seriously depressed and discouraged, I am going to go the distance with the Nardil.That's a great attitude. A question: where are you from and who is manafacturing your Nardil?
I do have some questions however, and wonder if you would be able to give me your opinion:
>
Sure.
> 1) I had just returned to my job after a 2 1/2 year sick leave dealing with the depression, only to have been 'hit' with it again. My boss was not compassionate or caring enough to help me get through it but has made impossible and unneccesary demands on me and it has become impossible for me to continue.You should not have to continiue in a state of severe depression. When I am in bad depression to get out of bed is hard enough. Depression is rarely alleviated by hard work, as so many think.
I ended up with so much stress, anxiety, chest pains and tightness (something that was never part of my depression) that I took myself to hospital to make sure I wasn't having a heart attack. Heart is fine. I won't continue with the difficulties presented at work, but have come away with such a feeling of inadequacy, sense of worthlesness, hopelesness and I am sure an underlying anger, of which I have not been able to feel yet.These emotions...accept them all. But at the same time know that you yourself is worth more than any of them. Realise that you DESERVE to be happy, no matter how hard the 'other part' of your brain resists this thought.
My question is, if I am dealing with a situational depression over the loss of my job (and probably my apartment) can the Nardil break through and help.Absolutely. When Nardil kicks in, you will feel so good and confident that the loss of a job is irrelevant- you can just find another! Nardil kills depression period. It doesn't matter the type of depression or why your depressed. It's waiting that is the hard part.
It probably sounds like a strange question, as why else would we be taking meds, but normally I have been a depressed person for no 'apparent' reason for most of my life.
You essentially are aking whether Nardil can help exogenous depression (losing job, house- depression due to theses) and exogenous depression (depression for no 'apparent' reason).
My answer is ABSOLUTELY YES!.
Been through the mill with meds, ECT, hospitalizations, counselling, talk therapy ....... I was taking Parnate for 2 years but did not find it to be very effective.Parnate was a horror for me- made me real depressed.
8 months ago my pdoc added Lamitcal to the Parnate. The Lamitcal worked remarkably fast and within a week I felt better that I ever had in my 51 years. Unfortunately, this was to be short lived and after 3 weeks the Lamitcal stopped working. We adjusted the dose from 150mg. to 200 and then to 300. but after 8 months my doctor suggested to come off both the Parnate and Lamitcal slowly and to try Nardil. I hope I am making some sort of sense.
Lamictal with the Nardil is alaways something to consider to make the Nardil kick in faster. Also 2.5mg Zyprexa for a week or two might do the trick (no higher than 2.5mg in my opinion)
> 2) I have chronic pain from arthritis, degenerative disc disease and osteoporosis. Although I try not to, I take up to 10 percocets a day. These pills also help a bit with the depression as well as some of the pain. My question is, do you think that this type of opiate would work against what the Nardil is trying to do?
>
From my research, no. I can't see any serious interaction between the two.> Any comments, Ace, would be very much appreciate. I hope things are going well with you.
>
> maryhelenThanks. Just keep going with the Nardil. Leave it at 90mg for at least 4 weeks before considering anything. Try to be patient with s/effects.
When Nardil finally kicks in you will have this sill grin on your face which you can't remove!
But once again, can you tell me where you are and who your Nardil manafacturer is: I wan't to see if you are on the old version of Nardil.
Take Care, hang in there and refuse to surrender,
Ace.
Posted by ace on December 9, 2003, at 19:12:04
In reply to Re: Ace, please help .... » maryhelen, posted by ace on December 7, 2003, at 22:23:52
Posted by maryhelen on December 11, 2003, at 10:21:30
In reply to Re: Ace, please help .... » maryhelen, posted by ace on December 7, 2003, at 22:23:52
Ace:
Thank you so much for taking the time to respond to my post. Thank you so much for your words of encouragement. I have not been able to be at my computer since my original post as my depression is so bad that I have not been able to function and can hardly get out of bed.
Last night was the first time that I was able to drag myself to my computer, read your response, and tried to figure out if I was taking the old or new version of Nardil. I live in Canada. I went back and read through previous postings about the concerns with the difference between the new and old. In one of the posts when I read that the new version had PD 270 on the pill, my heart nearly stopped, I felt sick to my stomach, had a slow, sinking feeling. Sure enough this is the pill I have been taking since November 3rd. I am not overdramatizing. I have been in a suicidal depression. At 51 years old and given everything I have been through to try to beat this demon, 5 psychiatric hospitalizations, 2 separate rounds of ECT, more drugs and combos that I would never remember them all even if I tried, psychological testing, counselling, support groups, so much talk therapy that I am sick of my own story, numerous pdocs, therapists, nutritionists, ............ after all this I feel that I am at 'square one' again and wonder if I have it in me to fight yet again, too tired, too sick, so discouraged, devastated by circumstances in my personal life. Between my pcods recommendation and the info and good responses heard by so many here at Dr. Bob's taking Nardil, I decided to try yet again and hung on to the slimmest of hope that Nardil would be the answer for me.
So I do not understate how devasting it is to know that I am taking a sub standard formulation of Nardil. Through the fog of depression, I am trying to understand how it is possible for a drug company to make a change to a medication, yet only in certain countries. If they felt all a sudden that to change Nardil to be 'gluten free' (as I understand it) would be in the best interest of the consumer, why is it the some countries have the New Nardil and others, like yours Ace, Australia, have the Old Nardil available. I know that it is harder to understand things when in this state of depression, but I don't get it.
Ace, I will go up to 90 mg. but now wonder what the point is of continuing taking Nardil at all. Yet, I am truly at the end of my rope, and do not know what else do to.
I spoke with my pharmacist about this, and he said there is no way that a change would be made to Nardil which would alter an active ingredient. He told me there is no way that this would happen and if they had made a change such as to make it 'gluten free', it could not possibly change the way that Nardil would work for depression. I tried to explain to him about the information I received from this website, which he already knows I belong to, but he would not listen to me and was not willing to look into it. I thought that a pharmacist would have better access to information than we, the consumer would. I got so frustrated with him and felt like I may as well be speaking with my 2 year old granddaughter. It is just so frustrating not to be heard or to have my concerns validated and that my (our) opinion would not be respected enough to be justified when there is the possibility that we, the very ones needing the drugs to save our lives, could possibly right and that the almighty drug company could have made a mistake.
I will do everything that I can today, although I do find it difficult when being at this level of depression to stay focussed and remain on task. I remember seeing in one of the posts a very detailed list of different ways to make contact with Pfizer. I will do my part to voice my concerns for myself and others.
Ace, I find it very touching that, although you are receiving the old Nardil and having the success that you are, that you show such care and concern and are always so willing to help others. I personally would like to thank you and do hope things are going well for you.
I hate to think how many people who are not fortunate enough to have found a forum, such as Dr. Bob's, whose lives have been unwittingly and adversely affected, or lost, by this change in Nardil. I know for myself, that I do not know how much more I can take of this depression. I know that I am suicidal. I am sick and so very tired of fighting this battle. Depression has robbed me of life. I have such wonderful people in my life, a large loving family, a beautiful, supportive daughter and four grandchildren, good friends. Until recent circumstances, a good job and the ability to live on my own in an apartment I love, although I may lose it due to the income change. Yet, with this constant battle with depression and the inability to self love or feel love, I have never really enjoyed any part of my life. I remain, for the most part isolated, it is easier, and find that it takes so much energy to put on the 'act' that I am okay when I do have to socialize. I really was left with one more glimmer of hope that taking Nardil would finally give me some relief from this depression and then I could feel some enjoyment in life. After reading about so many, (I can remember reading here 95%) are helped by Nardil, including yourself, Ace, I held on to some hope. Now I do not know what to think or do. I had mentioned that I take pain pills for arthritis as well as other conditions, and these are what are getting me through right now. I know opiates help a lot of people with depression, but for myself I am dependent on these pills and take too many. Also, they only last until the next prescription, and then I am left with deallng with this severe depression and I know that this is not the answer, by a long shot. I was hoping Nardil would have kicked in by now.
Ace, I am sorry for going on for so long. I haven't been able to be on the computer much and again was devastated last night. One thing that I was going to mention to you, before I knew I was taking the new Nardil, is that, when you said to hang in with the side effects, they will go away, I have not noticed any side effects. It doesn't even feel like I am taking a new med. I can remember when I took Parnate I did have side effects and can remember thems today even though it was over 2 years ago. The only thing that has happened is that I have gained 15 pounds and am having such a hard time controlling my eating. I just want to keep shoving the food in.
I am sorry for rambling on. I just don't know what to do. I will begin by making phone calls, e-mails, whatever it takes. I see that others are also doing this, but we don't know what each individual experience is, how effective it is, or what the heck we are going to do. I feel very desperate. I will go back and read all the posts dealing with Nardil as I have been away for a while.
Thanks for listening Ace and for being there for all of us.
maryhelen
This is the end of the thread.
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