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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Adam Donahue on November 26, 2003, at 14:52:17
Folks,
I posted a couple weeks ago following a drinking binge and the horrible depression that followed. My mood has definitely started getting better -- I'm not so easily distracted and I'm not obsessing as much -- but I'm not 100%. My main complaint now is my mental abilities. And this is why I'm writing.
Two weeks ago, I started on lithium at 300 mg, twice daily. My mindset had been horrible at the time, so I didn't attribute my lack of concentration and my fatigue to the drug, but rather to the depression caused by alcohol.
Now, however, I feel my mood getting better, but my concentration is still haywire. I am starting to wonder if this is the lithium.
For a couple days, I dropped the dose to 300 mg once per day, and I think my head started to clear a bit -- I wasn't as tired, and I could focus on something I typically enjoy (philosophy) without a brain pang.
But two days ago I upped the dose back to 600 mg, and last night felt the same way -- unable to focus on something.
It's a hard thing to explain, but it exhibits itself this way: I seem to have a hard time making mental 'connections' in my brain. Particularly with regard to abstract concepts, like mathematics and logic.
Usually, I am very, very sharp at making (or receiving) these connections -- highly logical, organized, and able to tackle the most complex problems, and to analyze and abstract them as necessary to come up with elegant solutions. That means thinking about mathematics in an abstract way; reading philosophy and being able to comprehend and /question/ it well; and solving problems in my professional domain of computing.
Now, however, I feel like these 'abstractive' abilities have been hindered -- and I am wondering if this might be the lithium?
I also tend to get a weird sensation reading, like a tingle in my head, as if the words are simply seeping into my mind, but not being GRASPED by my brain. Again, it's hard to explain. My memory seems fine -- but I can't just HOLD the concepts like I know I typically could.
Is this lithium? The alcohol (which would be a dramatic change of one alcoholic binge)? Lingering depression? ..... Does it go away?
Anyone else had these experiences?
Adam
Posted by linkadge on November 26, 2003, at 16:02:48
In reply to Lithium and concentration/abstract thinking, posted by Adam Donahue on November 26, 2003, at 14:52:17
Lithium can effect concentration, and cognition. You may want to take it all in the evening, at once say bedtime. I did this on 900 mg.
What I would do is take it all at say 7:00 pm or when you want to generally quit thinking. What lithium does is buffer your brains energy. It slows the releas of glutamate. If you take it all at night, you should be sharper in the day.
Linkadge
Posted by Adam Donahue on November 26, 2003, at 16:33:42
In reply to Re: Lithium and concentration/abstract thinking, posted by linkadge on November 26, 2003, at 16:02:48
No kidding, that's interesting. Is this type of thing permanent? If I take lithium for a few months and decide it's not working for me, and stop taking it, will these brain disturbances last? I didn't take one this morning -- and already I feel a little more alert.
That reminds me of another question: how long does lithium stay in your system, and how long after taking it will it be its most potent.
I like your idea of taking it all in the evening, but frankly, I am slightly frightened by the cognitive sluggishness it has caused in me.
(On another note, what medicines affect glutamate in the opposite way, promoting its release?)
Thanks,
Adam
> Lithium can effect concentration, and cognition. You may want to take it all in the evening, at once say bedtime. I did this on 900 mg.
>
> What I would do is take it all at say 7:00 pm or when you want to generally quit thinking. What lithium does is buffer your brains energy. It slows the releas of glutamate. If you take it all at night, you should be sharper in the day.
>
>
> Linkadge
>
Posted by linkadge on November 26, 2003, at 18:21:21
In reply to Re: Lithium and concentration/abstract thinking » linkadge, posted by Adam Donahue on November 26, 2003, at 16:33:42
No, as long as you don't reach toxic doses
(much greater than 600 mg) lithium has extremely potent neuroprotective properties, it lower stress hormone cortisol, and increases total grey matter. (you can do a google search for lithium + grey matter)Anyhow, lithium will leave no long term brain dammage, infact only the opposite. It will sort of buffer your brain power, when you come off of it your brain power will very quickly return. If you have a propensity towards mania, then be careful, you can easily go manic by dropping too much too soo, it's a real rush, but be slow about all changes.
Linkadge
Posted by Adam Donahue on November 26, 2003, at 18:32:31
In reply to Re: Lithium and concentration/abstract thinking, posted by linkadge on November 26, 2003, at 18:21:21
Again, thanks for the information. Perhaps my best bet is to take it all at night, like you suggest, so the mental treading during the day goes away. It's just -- it's weird not being able to think in a crystal clear way about things. I'm not used it, and honestly, I don't really like it, manic or not! ;) Odd that although I feel zonked out, in fact lithium is protecting the brain... it's a bit of a 'if it looks like, smells like, feels like ... it is!' -- perhaps it is protecting my brain, generating additional gray matter ... but this doesn't seem to be increasing my overall comprehension, so what's the point?
If I take the lithium long enough, will negative effects fade, replaced by a new, transcendental cognition? ;)
Adam
> No, as long as you don't reach toxic doses
> (much greater than 600 mg) lithium has extremely potent neuroprotective properties, it lower stress hormone cortisol, and increases total grey matter. (you can do a google search for lithium + grey matter)
>
> Anyhow, lithium will leave no long term brain dammage, infact only the opposite. It will sort of buffer your brain power, when you come off of it your brain power will very quickly return. If you have a propensity towards mania, then be careful, you can easily go manic by dropping too much too soo, it's a real rush, but be slow about all changes.
>
> Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on November 27, 2003, at 5:29:15
In reply to Re: Lithium and concentration/abstract thinking » linkadge, posted by Adam Donahue on November 26, 2003, at 18:32:31
Are you in school, or at the workplace,
take it as soon as the need for clear though is over. For me, I worked hard to finish all homework by 7:00, then I took it right then.
I felt somewhat inhibited till about noon, then my brain power seemed to increase, above regular baseline.
I thought it like this, lithium literally permiates the whole brain, and it some respects its like relearning everything. Things you do without thinking, now you have to think about.
But it forces you to know everything for real.
Cognition is generally much improved after a month or so on the drug. It takes this long for it to fatten up your brain cells, and to ballence glutaminergic function. Excercise will really boos the neurogenesis power of lithium.
Good Luck
Posted by Adam Donahue on November 27, 2003, at 17:41:56
In reply to Re: Lithium and concentration/abstract thinking, posted by linkadge on November 27, 2003, at 5:29:15
Workplace. I am a typical overachiever with a lot of goals for myself, and I guess I'm afraid this drug will hinder those. From what you're saying, it sounds like you really do get 'sharper' on the drug.
q: Do those inhibited feelings go away after about a month? What is BL on the stuff? Or do you basically have to settle for 7/hours day of (supposedly increased) 'brain time'? Perpetually?
Interesting thoughts.
Adam
> Are you in school, or at the workplace,
>
> take it as soon as the need for clear though is over. For me, I worked hard to finish all homework by 7:00, then I took it right then.
>
> I felt somewhat inhibited till about noon, then my brain power seemed to increase, above regular baseline.
>
> I thought it like this, lithium literally permiates the whole brain, and it some respects its like relearning everything. Things you do without thinking, now you have to think about.
>
> But it forces you to know everything for real.
>
> Cognition is generally much improved after a month or so on the drug. It takes this long for it to fatten up your brain cells, and to ballence glutaminergic function. Excercise will really boos the neurogenesis power of lithium.
>
> Good Luck
>
>
>
>
>
>
Posted by Maximus on November 27, 2003, at 18:35:25
In reply to Lithium and concentration/abstract thinking, posted by Adam Donahue on November 26, 2003, at 14:52:17
Hi Adam,
I take Lithium too. The side effects are dose related. You need to have a dose between 0.6 to 0.8 for a maintenance therapy in case of bipolar disorder. Obviously a competent psychiatrist will do all the difference. And the good news are, those side effects tend to vanish with time.
Personally i find that Lithium fine tunes my brain. Everything is sharper, except sometimes but rarely my short term memory.
Good Luck!
Posted by linkadge on November 27, 2003, at 18:39:18
In reply to Re: Lithium and concentration/abstract thinking » linkadge, posted by Adam Donahue on November 27, 2003, at 17:41:56
Yes, the cognition does improve over time.
Linkadge
Posted by jeanette on November 27, 2003, at 21:10:43
In reply to Re: Lithium and concentration/abstract thinking, posted by linkadge on November 27, 2003, at 18:39:18
i've been taking lithium for 3 weeks. the first two 600mg a day and now 900mg a day. when it first "hit" me i felt like i was seriously messed up on drugs. i couldn't think straight and i was confused and couldn't remember what just came out of my mouth. then after a couple more days i felt great- that's when the doc upped it. i felt very tired and weak for about 2 days, today i'm feeling better but i've had a headache ever since i started it. i also take 20 mg of prozac. anyone know if the headaches could be related?
Posted by Adam Donahue on November 28, 2003, at 15:04:14
In reply to Re: Lithium and concentration/abstract thinking » Adam Donahue, posted by Maximus on November 27, 2003, at 18:35:25
I'm curious, what exactly does everyone here do for a living? Or in school?
Adam
Posted by deloris on November 29, 2003, at 23:52:25
In reply to Re: Lithium and concentration/abstract thinking, posted by Adam Donahue on November 28, 2003, at 15:04:14
I was a bookkeeper when I could think, I have had this problem for 6 years now, reading your post's and linkage's, I may take a lithium before I go to bed, I was only taking 1/2 when I got up caused it seems to make me feel drugged, I never had ADHD and I hate this, I cannot look a figures anymore or focus on much, I have to take ritalin to drive so I can go to doc or go food shopping, I used to like regular shopping but its too much distraction and noise for me.
Posted by jeanette on November 30, 2003, at 23:57:41
In reply to Re: Lithium and concentration/abstract thinking, posted by deloris on November 29, 2003, at 23:52:25
in response to you adam, i currently work in a surf/snow/skate shop. not too impressive huh? i've had a lot of interesting jobs, mostly in my early 20's, but lately i havn't been able to commit to much job wise. what do u do?
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 1, 2003, at 14:34:46
In reply to Re: Lithium and concentration/abstract thinking, posted by Adam Donahue on November 28, 2003, at 15:04:14
> I'm curious, what exactly does everyone here do for a living? Or in school?
Since this doesn't have to do with medicaton, I'd like to redirect follow-ups to Psycho-Social-Babble. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20031124/msgs/285584.html
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Lazarus on December 1, 2003, at 18:36:26
In reply to Lithium and concentration/abstract thinking, posted by Adam Donahue on November 26, 2003, at 14:52:17
I take lithium for Bipolar Disorder. On a positive note I find that it is very calming and I don't have a knee-jerk reaction to everything everyone says.
On a negative note, after time it turns my world grey and I lose interest in everything. I don't really like taking it.
Lazarus
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