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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by nickm on October 22, 2003, at 19:02:39
Reading these posts I get a feeling that almost everyone, a little happier or a little less, has side effects, and that they have to depend on cocktails of drugs so the one causing anxiety can be counteracted by one reducing anxiety, and then both have side effects and more drugs have to be brought in.
My wife has been taken off antidepressants and antipsychotics for one week. The new doctor wanted ground zero, and then possibly try Effexor and Remeron. She's had all kinds of combinations of drugs and the side effects have always been worse than the depression.
I fear that the medication solution is not going to be for her ever. I'm thinking she might have to go for St. John's Wort, Sam-e or alternative treatments, for I don't see her taking anything without suffering terrible side-effects.
Nickm
Posted by john1022 on October 22, 2003, at 19:23:49
In reply to Worried About the Future with Antidepressants etc, posted by nickm on October 22, 2003, at 19:02:39
I am worried about the long term side effects as well. But to be honest, if one would work for me I would take it (they all currently make everything much worse, very severe side effects in my case).
My pdoc is actually very cautious in prescribing meds. He says he doesn't like to prescribe them unless it is a worse case scenrio or if the person is suffering very badly. Right now he is currently having me take nothing except something for my sleep and seeing if first changes in my lifestyle (excerise, good sleep, social interaction and diet) help first. If nothing changes, I might have to try another med.
Another thing I am looking into is neuroreplete.com which uses all natural amino acid therapy to resolve depression. Who knows if it works, but it is worth a shot. The system is based on the use of amino acids like 5HTP and L-Tyrosine, which boost serotonin, norephederine and dopamine to some extent (at least I think that is how it works, I need to read up on it more) when used together
Taking 5HTP alone almost cures my depression and anxiety (definitely relieves it to where I feel about 90% normal, when I feel 30% on meds and about 50% not on anything), except for the sleep aspect of it (which I have a problem with) So I might check into this program to get the full range of amino acids which they claim will more likely help in a person's recovery. Who knows if it will work, but I think I might give it a shot.
St John's Wort and SAM-e might also be worth a shot. My mom's nurse said she has suffered from depression for year's, tried 6 different AD's with none of them working at all, but when she tried SAM-e it worked and she has at least had her depression relieved to some extent not found with regular prescribed AD's.
But with that said, prescribed AD's work for a lot of people, so who knows. Everyone is different
Good luck
Posted by melbob on October 22, 2003, at 20:51:51
In reply to Re: Worried About the Future with Antidepressants etc, posted by john1022 on October 22, 2003, at 19:23:49
hi...
i have tried l-tyrosine alone, and it did seem to help. i only took it for a month or two when i was separating from my husband and was all stressed out. after i started feeling better, i just stopped taking it. i think it kinda helped me over the hump, so to speak. i am glad you mentioned it, though, because i am having a good deal of stress lately (divorce, remarrying tomorrow, child custody hearing next week). i just got off the <evil> effexor. i had forgotten about the l-tyrosine, but i believe i will go get some tomorrow! so thank you so much!
melbob
Posted by Emme on October 22, 2003, at 23:38:31
In reply to Worried About the Future with Antidepressants etc, posted by nickm on October 22, 2003, at 19:02:39
I appreciate your concern over multiple meds and side effects. I'd rather be on less myself. I'm someone who gets lots of side effects and often needs pediatric doses. I don't know if this will make you feel better or not, but I'm currently on a 5 med mix (scary) without much in the way of side effects. We've somehow hit upon several drugs I can use, none of which gives me difficult side effects. Lamictal inteferes with sleep, but not to a troublesome degree.
Are they working? Partly. My moods are cycling less and my therapist definitely perceives that I'm more consistent and responsive. Anxiety seems to be pretty controllable. We're working on improving the depression which has been pretty hideously severe lately, but may be budging slightly (I won't feel secure unless it continues to change for the better for a while).
I also wonder about going the alternative route with the amino acids, St. John's wort, etc. I wonder if they'd completely do the job, but I don't know what kinds of interactions there would be with my prescription stuff and I don't want to risk getting off of what's helping in order to find out. I may go ask on Alternative. My pdoc does have me take L-phenylalanine with the selegiline, though I may ask her about tyrosine. She's been having me take chromium picolinate. On my own, I take some Zn, Se, Mg, and B-50 complex. The fish oil didn't do much for me. I've been told by docs that St. John's wort is effective for mild to moderate depression, but that I needed bigger guns for my severe depression. But I don't know what the current state of knowledge is on St. John's wort.
Emme
Posted by cybercafe on October 23, 2003, at 4:06:03
In reply to Worried About the Future with Antidepressants etc, posted by nickm on October 22, 2003, at 19:02:39
> Reading these posts I get a feeling that almost everyone, a little happier or a little less, has side effects, and that they have to depend on cocktails of drugs so the one causing anxiety can be counteracted by one reducing anxiety, and then both have side effects and more drugs have to be brought in.
>
> My wife has been taken off antidepressants and antipsychotics for one week. The new doctor wanted ground zero, and then possibly try Effexor and Remeron. She's had all kinds of combinations of drugs and the side effects have always been worse than the depression.
>
> I fear that the medication solution is not going to be for her ever. I'm thinking she might have to go for St. John's Wort, Sam-e or alternative treatments, for I don't see her taking anything without suffering terrible side-effects.
>
> Nickm
i have a combination with no side effectsparnate
abilify
lorazepam
Posted by nickm on October 23, 2003, at 9:54:44
In reply to Re: Worried About the Future with Antidepressants , posted by cybercafe on October 23, 2003, at 4:06:03
Thanks for your replies, and suggestions. My wife already tried Abilify in August. Immediately she developed akasthisia, dysthonica, and dyskinesia.
She's apparently super sensitive. She was on 7.5 mg of Abilify, and still...
Many thanks,
Nickm
Posted by nickm on October 23, 2003, at 9:58:16
In reply to Re: Worried About the Future with Antidepressants , posted by Emme on October 22, 2003, at 23:38:31
Thanks for the suggestions, Emme. Will ask this new doctor about those things you're taking. My wife has taken so many things! She was then called refractory, and referred to ECTs. Neither the referring doctor, nor the ECT psychiatrist diagnosed her EPS symptoms, akathisia, dysthonia, etc. She was put through five ECTs and they had to be stopped.
That's why I'm so concerned. She was on Serzone for seven weeks, and as soon as we fired the ECT practitioner, the new doctor told us he wouldn't prescribe Serzone for his patients and took her off it (The liver damage thing in Europe, Canada, and in the Physician's Referral Manual in the US - the FDA is aware of it).
Thanks again,
Nickm
Posted by cybercafe on October 23, 2003, at 14:23:29
In reply to Re: Worried About the Future with Antidepressants , posted by nickm on October 23, 2003, at 9:54:44
> Thanks for your replies, and suggestions. My wife already tried Abilify in August. Immediately she developed akasthisia, dysthonica, and dyskinesia.
>
> She's apparently super sensitive. She was on 7.5 mg of Abilify, and still...hey, i only took 3.75 mg and developed akathisia and some dystonia........ but it eventually went away
Posted by Emme on October 23, 2003, at 22:21:05
In reply to Re: Worried About the Future with Antidepressants , posted by nickm on October 23, 2003, at 9:58:16
Hi. I'm sorry your wife has had such bad reactions and wasn't treated by someone who knew what they were doing. She's paid a high price. It's tough playing musical meds. I'm lucky. My pdoc always believes my side effect descriptions, and if I have an idea about which drug is causing it, she listens.
I took something like 2 mg abilify, sometimes only every other day. It made me antsy. It also seems to have made me feel the cold terribly. All that said, it sure did pop me out of terrible depression within 48 hours! No lie. It really gave me a break for a while. The restlessness was annoying, but what made me want to get rid of it was feeling freezing cold all the time.
I assume you've been reading over on the Alternative board? The main reasons I started trying the Zn and Se was because the anticonvulsants seemed to be making my hair drier. It seems better since I started taking them. I've seen posts here about benefits of Zn and Se for mood problems.
My pdoc says there are some small but reasonable studies showing that the chromium picolinate can help. She really only goes for altnernative things if there are at least a few well-executed studies on them. Of course the fish oil stuff seems well established. The B-complex seemed like a good idea since I'm vegetarian and want to make sure I get enough B-12. Again, lots of stuff on the B's posted here.
Except for the L-phenylalanine to boost selegiline, I haven't gone the amino acid route, but I'm watching what people here have to say.
Emme
> Thanks for the suggestions, Emme. Will ask this new doctor about those things you're taking. My wife has taken so many things! She was then called refractory, and referred to ECTs. Neither the referring doctor, nor the ECT psychiatrist diagnosed her EPS symptoms, akathisia, dysthonia, etc. She was put through five ECTs and they had to be stopped.
>
> That's why I'm so concerned. She was on Serzone for seven weeks, and as soon as we fired the ECT practitioner, the new doctor told us he wouldn't prescribe Serzone for his patients and took her off it (The liver damage thing in Europe, Canada, and in the Physician's Referral Manual in the US - the FDA is aware of it).
>
> Thanks again,
>
> Nickm
Posted by Dr. Bob on October 24, 2003, at 0:54:54
In reply to Re: Worried About the Future with Antidepressants » nickm, posted by Emme on October 23, 2003, at 22:21:05
> I assume you've been reading over on the Alternative board? The main reasons I started trying the Zn and Se was because the anticonvulsants seemed to be making my hair drier...
I'd like further discussion of Zn, Se, and other alternative treatments to be redirected there, thanks.
Bob
Posted by T_R_D on October 24, 2003, at 10:11:13
In reply to Worried About the Future with Antidepressants etc, posted by nickm on October 22, 2003, at 19:02:39
Unfortunately there are folks out there that simply can not tolerate the pharmaceutical ADs etc... I have a friend who is one of them and he seems to be having some success with SAM-e.
I guess it's really up to your wife and how much a psychological tolerance she has...i.e.--how long can I put up with experimenting before I lose it! There are a lot of drugs out there and I think most people have to run the gamut at least a little to find something that works. It's kind of a *depressing* thought that sometimes these drugs have a limited usage...they can "poop out" or side effects can reappear that you thought were beaten. Still, I think for most, taking meds is better than the alternative. A good doctor is imperative, plus your wife's ability to be honest with that practitioner.
A person's relationship with their medication can be extremely complicated and I'm sure everyone has they're own tale to tell on this board. For me, meds saved my life--literally. I was becoming far too adept at suicide and self-harm attempts that I feared the with next one, I would have succeeded. The funny thing is, I never really wanted to die...I just wanted the depression to stop.
Best of luck to both of you and please keep us posted!
Karen
Posted by nickm on October 24, 2003, at 15:42:56
In reply to Re: Worried About the Future with Antidepressants etc, posted by T_R_D on October 24, 2003, at 10:11:13
Thank you, Karen. Your message makes much sense. I'm just afraid she'll get started again - the new doc wants her on Effexor and Remeron - and find that the side effects, etc., will intensify again.
Will see. Will keep you posted.
Nickm
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