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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Jordan Rivers on September 6, 2003, at 17:13:19
Hi, I sure hope this gets posted, as I have spent hours getting registered and trying to send a message. I recently was given a perscription for 15 ADDERALL to help energize me after a surgical procedure requiring general anesthesia left me in a weakened state and it was necessary to get me up and walking.The perscribed dosage was 10mg. in the morning. I had never heard of "ADDERALL" and was told it was a strong stimulate, and they would give me only 15 because it was very addictive. I thought, yeah right, your talking to a 56 year old ex-Hippy/Marine who tried all the speed from Bennies to Preludin to crank in my earlier years.I took the initial dosage and felt absolutely nothing. The next morning I increased to 20mg., once againwith no effect. On day four I took 50mg. and felt no stimulation whatsoever.Upon returning home I looked up the medication and was surprised to find out it was composed of four Amphetamine Salts; essentially being Dexedrine and Benzedrine along with two other Amphetamine Salts.As I said, being 56 years old I had experienced both of these drugs recreationaly as well as in the Marine Corps to stay awake (and alive) on "Hot" patrols in Vietnam. I knew what it felt like to get a good speed high and I was surprised when I realized I had felt nothing from the ADDERALL.I knew Amphetamines were no longer perscribed for weight control etc. but I had no idea they are currently being perscribed almost exclusively for "ADD"; primarily in children but also adults, where they had a reverse effect, that of calming. This, of course, started me thinking about why I did not feel any stimulant effects from 50mg. of ADDERALL? I'm hoping it is not because I am "ADD" and the medication acted as it did because it was doing it's job. Can a person acquire onset of "ADD" later in life? Is ADDERALL formulated to keep the stimulate effect down on non-ADD people? I have other reasons to think I may have this condition but I won't go into that now. Please, someone respond, even if it is just to tell me I got this posted correctly. Thank you.
Jordan Rivers
Posted by katalina on September 6, 2003, at 20:01:57
In reply to Adderall; Urgent Question Pertaining to ADDHi,, posted by Jordan Rivers on September 6, 2003, at 17:13:19
Jordan,
I have taken Adderall XR (also IR previously) for the past two years and am prescribed 50 mgs. per day, although I only take 30 in the a.m. I believe I have ADD (inattentive, hypoactive type) and my dr. on my own diagnosis had no problem on me putting myself on an Adderall/klonopin program which has basically pulled me out of the bowels of existence into a productive, self motivated stay at home mother to two toddlers. On the outside I don't appear to have ADD, but I've always had struggles with certain things, mostly lack of patience, impulsiveness, very hard time doing anything dreadfully boring (grocery shopping, mundane activities of daily living, etc.).
Anyhow, I digress. My unauthorized answer to your question regarding whether Adderall would be effective (noticeable symptoms) to an "average" person is most definitely. Tons of kids/people sell prescription stimulants (amphetamines and ritalin, etc.) to non-ADD people, especially those looking to study intensely for hours, keep working, stay awake, etc. The euphoric effect probably can't be measured quanitatively or qualitatively amongst people, but I am willing to bet from the majority of users, that they do feel some sort of stimulated effect from adderall. (I also have first hand experience in letting a friend try one and feeling higher than a kite because they are not ADD. I am productive and alert during the day, but am able to sleep at night, I've given low doses to "regular" people and they were wired for 48 hours. I think the opposite may stand true as far as normal people not being affected by stimulants.
ANYWAY, you said it had been years since you took amphetamines in the Service. Do you know what kind of doses you were taking and exactly what kind and for how long? I can't imagine that if it's been years since you've used amphetamines that they are useless to you know, especially if you had a good result. I don't know if you're on any other meds, or if you're having an atypical responce to the general anesth. wearing off, which could prevent the Adderall from kicking in, but I would venture to guess that 50 mgs. of Adderall should make you feel something, if not "high" than definitely irritable.
Hope that helped somewhat. I'm interested in hearing other's responses. I don't know if you could be dopamine depleted, or if there's some way of testing for that. I would imagine that you would be extremely depressed and unproductive prior to the surgery if you were in fact dopamine deficient. Someone please correct me if I'm making false assumptions, I'm only speculating based on experiences of my own and those of others I've known personally.
Also, I don't think people "acquire" ADD later in life. I think sometimes atypical cases (in my case, female, overachiever somewhat in school until rebelliousness kicked in, being constantly bored and feeling misundersood, foot in mouth syndrome, etc.) are overlooked in diagnosing ADD. If you're not hyperactive, many don't realize ADD has several subtypes (6, I belive according to Dr. Amen). Do a search for Daniel Amen and read his descriptions of the different types of ADD if you're interested. It seems unlikely to me that you suspect you do have ADD, but maybe something in his web site will hit home with you??
Good luck and keep us apprised of your progress. You might want to keep a diary that outlines your moods and energy levels several times a day to see if you're feeling better.
Just a thought. Sorry for rambling . . .
Katie
Hi, I sure hope this gets posted, as I have spent hours getting registered and trying to send a message. I recently was given a perscription for 15 ADDERALL to help energize me after a surgical procedure requiring general anesthesia left me in a weakened state and it was necessary to get me up and walking.The perscribed dosage was 10mg. in the morning. I had never heard of "ADDERALL" and was told it was a strong stimulate, and they would give me only 15 because it was very addictive. I thought, yeah right, your talking to a 56 year old ex-Hippy/Marine who tried all the speed from Bennies to Preludin to crank in my earlier years.I took the initial dosage and felt absolutely nothing. The next morning I increased to 20mg., once againwith no effect. On day four I took 50mg. and felt no stimulation whatsoever.Upon returning home I looked up the medication and was surprised to find out it was composed of four Amphetamine Salts; essentially being Dexedrine and Benzedrine along with two other Amphetamine Salts.As I said, being 56 years old I had experienced both of these drugs recreationaly as well as in the Marine Corps to stay awake (and alive) on "Hot" patrols in Vietnam. I knew what it felt like to get a good speed high and I was surprised when I realized I had felt nothing from the ADDERALL.I knew Amphetamines were no longer perscribed for weight control etc. but I had no idea they are currently being perscribed almost exclusively for "ADD"; primarily in children but also adults, where they had a reverse effect, that of calming. This, of course, started me thinking about why I did not feel any stimulant effects from 50mg. of ADDERALL? I'm hoping it is not because I am "ADD" and the medication acted as it did because it was doing it's job. Can a person acquire onset of "ADD" later in life? Is ADDERALL formulated to keep the stimulate effect down on non-ADD people? I have other reasons to think I may have this condition but I won't go into that now. Please, someone respond, even if it is just to tell me I got this posted correctly. Thank you.
>
> Jordan Rivers
Posted by utopizen on September 6, 2003, at 20:03:56
In reply to Adderall; Urgent Question Pertaining to ADDHi,, posted by Jordan Rivers on September 6, 2003, at 17:13:19
It doesn't actually "calm" people down. That's something doctors say to simplify the way it works to lay people.
It's a stimulant. It helps people stay focused. And most kids with ADHD require treatment for their lifetime, not just during childhood-- I'm 20, and I take Desoxyn (a more potent form of Adderall).
You most likely need to try something else. It doesn't mean you have ADD, it just means you're so tired it doesn't work. Desoxyn is a possibility, Provigil is one too, but Provigil is milder so if Adderall didn't work it won't either... Dexedrine (immediate release) might work. Adderall and Dexedrine's dosing range from 5mg-60mg, depending on the patient metabolism.
Posted by utopizen on September 6, 2003, at 21:49:26
In reply to Re: Adderall; Urgent Question Pertaining to ADDHi,, posted by katalina on September 6, 2003, at 20:01:57
The anesthetic effect, and any possible analgesic you may have been prescribed post-operation, have more to do with your problem than anything else.
A requisite for ADD is that the symptoms exist before the age of 7. I was diagnosed at 18, but I still remember having a hellish experience concentrating each day when I was 6 on my studies.
All doctors follow the same book, DSM-IV, which spells this out. And fatigue and AD/HD are separate matters, so I would be hesitant to draw too many coorelations.
In my case, I'm an inattentive subtype of AD/HD, and also have social anxiety disorder. Adderall makes my social anxiety worse. It never "calms" me. "Calm" is not a scientific word-- it's a word docs use to tell people things so they can understand them. It's a practice called "explanatory fiction"-- saves them time talking to patients. Like instead of saying they're going to use supersonic surgery, they'll call it "laser surgery" even if it's not. Otherwise they'd have to explain what supersonic means!
Posted by utopizen on September 6, 2003, at 22:09:29
In reply to Re: Adderall; Urgent Question Pertaining to ADDHi,, posted by utopizen on September 6, 2003, at 20:03:56
Your doctors were right to let you know amphetamines are addictive. That's why they're schedule-II drugs.
They're a few bizarre categories in which a Schedule III should be a Schedule IV
(Xyrem is a Schedule IV by the WHO and other Int'l bodies, but our paranoid country places it as Schedule III) and then there's cases where a Schedule IV really has no abuse potential
(Provigil, for instance-- the stuff really doesn't even work for me for therapeutic purposes, it's difficult to imagine someone abusing them for recreational purposes, it takes hours to kick in if it ever does)
Amphetamines are very addictive, and should not be increased in their dose unless your physician indicates that. There are objective studies, including the benzedrine-meprobamate-pentobarbital abuse potential test, that have measured amphetamines as a highly abusable drug with re-inforcing characteristics.
Your Adderall dose isn't working because your anesthetic is overwhelming your body right now, and that justs needs to be slept off. If it is still a problem after a week, I'd call your doctor back and you can see your options. Patients with abuse histories tend not to be prescribed amphetamines, so you may want to tell your doctor your history of abusing stimulants and ask about non-stimulant treatments like Provigil or Wellbutrin.
Posted by EscherDementian on September 7, 2003, at 9:43:06
In reply to Re: Adderall; Urgent Question Pertaining to ADDHi,, posted by katalina on September 6, 2003, at 20:01:57
Jordan, hello and welcome-
I must agree 100% with Katie here, on all of her points and even parallel profile. (I, too have atypical non-hyperactive ADD, with symptoms just as Katie described through youth -undiagnosed until recently)
And similar to you, Jordan, about 20yrs or so ago, i enjoyed 'speed', and couldn't imagine how i could've "gotten" ADD this late and why my perscript of 45mg per day could be so calming. (a friend's response to 10mg was totally stimulating).I read in the book "_Driven to Distraction_" about adult ADD, that most people who found that speed or cocaine felt good, or were 'relieved' by the 'better sanity'(!) have probably always had ADD/ADHD or have dopamine deficiencies. Whether the deficiency could have been caused by 20+ yrs ago drug use is a question i also have wondered. Haven't found any info on that yet (Anyone else?)
i do know, that my 45mgs calms me, not stimulates me, and has helped immensely for all the reasons that Katie has listed. My fatigue was the first to go - but without any noticeable 'high'.
It has been a blessing for me in terms of self-motivation and continuing productivity in a career that requires absolute attentiveness, patience, focus, calm, and is very active.Just one more share here- to address 'addiction' (?) i have unfortunately had to quit my last pdoc, and in the lengthy process of beginning with another, ran out of my Adderall and do without for near 2 months. i've felt NOTHING that i would call addiction withdrawal symptoms. There has been no 'getting sick', no craving, EVER. It was a feeling was that it was 'wearing off', and about 4 days later- the old fatigue began to return, and increased daily, until it became a 'depleted/exhausted' struggle and also depression -just like before. At 11-12 days without Adderall, the scatterminded inability to complete a task (or even a sentence, sometimes) returned full force, and my thoughts were once again 'all over the board' all at once. It was psychologically *painful* to lose my 'sanity', now that i knew the difference.
(BTW, this is why i tried to make light of it to raise my spirits and changed my 'post name' from Quixote to EscherDementian: goto "psyscho-babble social" and read "An ADD Hello"... i was joking, thinking others might relate to the 'psychological pain' of ADD, but i think i scared everyone. No one would reply to it.)Anyway, GUSH i'm glad to have these boards to read about other's knowledge/experience, and get my own questions answered since going thru' that lengthy registering. i hope i've been of some help for you, Jordan - welcome welcome welcome and Hello :)
Escher
P.S. no, i haven't been back on Adderall yet. Got an apptmt with a pdoc Monday. Wish me well, i hope i like him. If i change my name back to "Quixote", you'll know i'm sane again. Well, sortof. ;)
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 7, 2003, at 16:09:27
In reply to Re: Adderall; Urgent Question Pertaining to ADDHi,, posted by EscherDementian on September 7, 2003, at 9:43:06
> I read in the book "_Driven to Distraction_" about adult ADD, that most people who found that speed or cocaine felt good, or were 'relieved' by the 'better sanity'(!) have probably always had ADD/ADHD or have dopamine deficiencies...
I'd just like to plug the double double quotes feature at this site:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#amazon
The first time anyone refers to a book without using this option, I post this to try to make sure he or she at least knows about it. It's just an option, though, and doesn't *have* to be used. If people *choose* not to use it, I'd be interested why not, but I'd like that redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20020918/msgs/7717.html
Thanks!
Bob
Posted by KimberlyDi on September 8, 2003, at 9:49:55
In reply to Adderall; Urgent Question Pertaining to ADDHi,, posted by Jordan Rivers on September 6, 2003, at 17:13:19
I wouldn't jump to conclusions on ADD or ADHD. I think it's based more on symptoms causing you trouble in your life rather than your lack of reaction to a certain medication. If you had experienced all those stimulants before in life, you may still have a bit of tolerance built up to stimulants. If you have any questions, see a doctor and ask for a questionaire on adult ADD/ADHD symptoms.
Good Luck!
KDi in Texas
Posted by Gina88 on August 1, 2007, at 19:27:16
In reply to Re: Adderall; Urgent Question Pertaining to ADDHi, » Jordan Rivers, posted by KimberlyDi on September 8, 2003, at 9:49:55
> I wouldn't jump to conclusions on ADD or ADHD. I think it's based more on symptoms causing you trouble in your life rather than your lack of reaction to a certain medication. If you had experienced all those stimulants before in life, you may still have a bit of tolerance built up to stimulants. If you have any questions, see a doctor and ask for a questionaire on adult ADD/ADHD symptoms.> Good Luck!
> KDi in Texas
> I've been on ritlin on and off since I was 5. I've tried Adderall and Desoxyn is the one. My name is Gina. People that really know me know I'm a bookmark case, can't sit still etc; I also take Zolft for depression to combat the results of not being excepted in society ,kids can be cruel; Any way, I felt I needed more.. I kept falling into depressions, so I added Lactimal to the list. If anything I feel more productive with having taken the medication steadlily. And people can toleate me better. I come across as loud and impaitent when not medicated. To say I've been good is an understatment. ,,, Ive taken my pills for 4mnths straight 75mgs of lactimil and 100 of zolft and 200mgs of 5mg dosoxyn.I have been reawokened Ive even had dreams of telling people I'm not lost anymore. The only thing that burdens me is the neediness and seperation anxiety which is new to me. Being a self motivated person who took drugs to cover my emosions is making me feel so vunerable know. I hate AA dont even suggest it. Its not for me . Its a downer and I leave it at that. Would someone talk to me about something new.
.Gina Rockville MD,USA
Posted by Gina88 on August 1, 2007, at 22:47:20
In reply to Re: Adderall; Urgent Question Pertaining to ADDHi, » Jordan Rivers, posted by KimberlyDi on September 8, 2003, at 9:49:55
> I wouldn't jump to conclusions on ADD or ADHD. I think it's based more on symptoms causing you trouble in your life rather than your lack of reaction to a certain medication. If you had experienced all those stimulants before in life, you may still have a bit of tolerance built up to stimulants. If you have any questions, see a doctor and ask for a questionaire on adult ADD/ADHD symptoms.> Good Luck!
> KDi in Texas
> I've been on ritlin on and off since I was 5. I've tried Adderall and Desoxyn is the one. My name is Gina. People that really know me know I'm a bookmark case, can't sit still etc; I also take Zolft for depression to combat the results of not being excepted in society ,kids can be cruel; Any way, I felt I needed more.. I kept falling into depressions, so I added Lactimal to the list. If anything I feel more productive with having taken the medication steadlily. And people can toleate me better. I come across as loud and impaitent when not medicated. To say I've been good is an understatment. ,,, Ive taken my pills for 4mnths straight 75mgs of lactimil and 100 of zolft and 200mgs of 5mg dosoxyn.I have been reawokened Ive even had dreams of telling people I'm not lost anymore. The only thing that burdens me is the neediness and seperation anxiety which is new to me. Being a self motivated person who took drugs to cover my emosions is making me feel so vunerable know. I hate AA dont even suggest it. Its not for me . Its a downer and I leave it at that. Would someone talk to me about something new.
.Gina Rockville MD,USA
This is the end of the thread.
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