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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 4 of 4. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by loolot on September 5, 2003, at 2:01:29
I have been on provigil as a supplement to Wellbutrin (pooping out) for a few days now. I only take 50 mg a day so far (I tried 100 the first day and felt great but was up all night)
It really helps with my inability to focus, etc, so I like the effects of the med, but I cant sleep at all.
It is really strange because, unlike sleeplessness from a stimulant or caffeine, I dont wake up feeling bad-I dont feel like I need the sleep anymore, but I like sleeping and certainly it must be necessary to one's health, right? Its lonely staying up all night, too.
I also feel a lot of nausea and terrible headaches in the afternoon, a little bit short tempered, too. Can anything be done about this stuff?
I am currnetly taking the provigil at 8:30 a.m
Can anyone give me some advice on how to lessen the sleeplessness or is it always going to be a problem? I would really like to raise the dose but I am afraid it will be worse. Does any of this wear off over time? I am afraid I will start having to take a sleeping pill or something.
Also does provigil affect weight?
I hope I can stay on this med but I have to get the side effects under control.
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on September 5, 2003, at 8:54:52
In reply to I like provigil, but I miss sleeping! Advice?, posted by loolot on September 5, 2003, at 2:01:29
Most certainly sounds to me like Provigil isn't for you. Headaches are an extremely common side effect, occurring in 50% of those who participated in the clinical trials. And the fact that such a very, very low dose is interfering with your sleep (when Provigil should not affect sleep at all) *and* causing irritability is not a good sign.
> Can anyone give me some advice on how to lessen the sleeplessness or is it always going to be a problem? I would really like to raise the dose but I am afraid it will be worse. Does any of this wear off over time?
To my knowledge, tolerance doesn't build to the therapeutic or adverse effects of Provigil... if you're absolutely set on staying on that particular med, you probably will end up needing something for sleep.
> Also does provigil affect weight?
According to their website, 5% of the subjects taking Provigil during clinical trials experienced "anorexia", so weight loss could possibly occur. You never know though, weight gain *could* be an issue for some people. For example, stimulant drugs are used as appetite suppressants to help people lose weight, but some people find the stimulants don't affect their appetites at all -- they just eat *really fast*, lol.
It sounds to me as if your body is reacting to the Provigil as if it were methylphenidate or something... perhaps you have some metabolic problem that's hindering its excretion from your system, thus prolonging and exaggerating the effects? Have you tried any amphetamines? They're absolutely wonderful in improving cognitive ability -- more so than Provigil, IMO. Of course it sounds like you'd probably require a very low dose... maybe 5-10mg of a long-acting amphetamine (Adderall XR, Dexedrine Spansules, Desoxyn CR) just once a day.
If you *still* intend to keep trying with the Provigil, I'd suggest taking it with a benzodiazepine, and perhaps keep some beta-blockers on hand (e.g. Inderal, Corgard, Tenormin) for the headaches -- I read something not very long ago that they can greatly help with that problem.
Good luck!
Posted by loolot on September 5, 2003, at 13:17:34
In reply to Re: I like provigil, but I miss sleeping! Advice? » loolot, posted by Ame Sans Vie on September 5, 2003, at 8:54:52
> Most certainly sounds to me like Provigil isn't for you. Headaches are an extremely common side effect, occurring in 50% of those who participated in the clinical trials. And the fact that such a very, very low dose is interfering with your sleep (when Provigil should not affect sleep at all) *and* causing irritability is not a good sign.
>
> > Can anyone give me some advice on how to lessen the sleeplessness or is it always going to be a problem? I would really like to raise the dose but I am afraid it will be worse. Does any of this wear off over time?
>
> To my knowledge, tolerance doesn't build to the therapeutic or adverse effects of Provigil... if you're absolutely set on staying on that particular med, you probably will end up needing something for sleep.
>
> > Also does provigil affect weight?
>
> According to their website, 5% of the subjects taking Provigil during clinical trials experienced "anorexia", so weight loss could possibly occur. You never know though, weight gain *could* be an issue for some people. For example, stimulant drugs are used as appetite suppressants to help people lose weight, but some people find the stimulants don't affect their appetites at all -- they just eat *really fast*, lol.
>
> It sounds to me as if your body is reacting to the Provigil as if it were methylphenidate or something... >>What is methylphenidate? A stimulant?
<<perhaps you have some metabolic problem that's hindering its excretion from your system, thus prolonging and exaggerating the effects? Have you tried any amphetamines? They're absolutely wonderful in improving cognitive ability -- more so than Provigil, IMO. Of course it sounds like you'd probably require a very low dose... maybe 5-10mg of a long-acting amphetamine (Adderall XR, Dexedrine Spansules, Desoxyn CR) just once a day.
>
> If you *still* intend to keep trying with the Provigil, I'd suggest taking it with a benzodiazepine, and perhaps keep some beta-blockers on hand (e.g. Inderal, Corgard, Tenormin) for the headaches -- I read something not very long ago that they can greatly help with that problem.>>
Thanks! You are really helpful!
Do you think that the fact that I am already getting extra adren. from the wellbutrin might be contributing to the problem? I wonder if I should try a lower dose of wellbutrin?
I really like the wasy this drug effects my mood and ability to get things done, etc when I am on a slightly higher dose, butI wish I didnt have these side effects.
Do you really think I could have some metabolic issue? How long does it usually take for provigil to be extreted?
amphetamines are my next move, but, darnit, I really like this drug. Despite some irritablity it generally boosts my mood. Maybe you are right, though. I was hoping to hear that these things wear off. LOL
I guess another option would be to try the weaker version of provigil (adrafinil). do you know anything about that drug? Are side effects worse or better or the same?
What do you think about sleep meds. Are they problematic and addictive?
Thanks so much
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on September 5, 2003, at 14:03:27
In reply to Re: I like provigil, but I miss sleeping! Advice? » Ame Sans Vie, posted by loolot on September 5, 2003, at 13:17:34
> What is methylphenidate? A stimulant?
Yep, just the generic name for Ritalin.
> Thanks! You are really helpful!No problem, glad to help. :-)
> Do you think that the fact that I am already getting extra adren. from the wellbutrin might be contributing to the problem? I wonder if I should try a lower dose of wellbutrin?
That's a definite consideration... though I wouldn't get my hopes up. I mean, 50mg of modafinil is a very low dose, and regardless of the additive effects of any other drugs, the fact that you're having such problems with such a small dose indicates to me that modafinil simply isn't the right medication for you. I mean, what really concerns me is that modafinil is not supposed to affect sleep (i.e. cause insomnia) -- just the fact alone that you're experiencing that sets off an alarm in my head.
> I really like the wasy this drug effects my mood and ability to get things done, etc when I am on a slightly higher dose, butI wish I didnt have these side effects.
Believe me, if you decide to give amphetamines a run, it won't be long before Provigil becomes a vague, distant memory, lol. Amphetamines also greatly elevate mood, increase drive, motivation, confidence, and physical and psychic energy. Their effects are sooo much better than modafinil's (though this is just my opinion, I'm sure many others here would back me up on this).
The three amphetamines that you could try have somewhat subjective, but often quite predictable effects. Adderall (a combination of dextroamphetamine, levoamphetamine, and amphetamine) works well, but seems to cause anxiety/irritability in some. Dexedrine/DextroStat/Ferndex/Spancap #1/Oxydess II (dextroamphetamine), my personal stimulant of choice, seems to be more effective than Adderall and does not cause nervousness. Desoxyn (methamphetamine) I found to be the best of all the amphetamines for mood elevation (though dextroamphetamine isn't far behind), but not as effective as dextroamphetamine for my ADD symptoms. Of course, these are my experiences, and Your Mileage May Vary.
> Do you really think I could have some metabolic issue? How long does it usually take for provigil to be extreted?
It's a distinct possibility... I'll look a bit more into this and then let you know what I find out.
> amphetamines are my next move, but, darnit, I really like this drug............
^^^^Read above. :-)
> I guess another option would be to try the weaker version of provigil (adrafinil). do you know anything about that drug? Are side effects worse or better or the same?
Adrafinil, while certainly quite a bit less expensive, is harder on your liver than modafinil. I don't know, I assume you may have the same sort of reaction to adrafinil as you have to modafinil, being that they're so closely related.
> What do you think about sleep meds. Are they problematic and addictive?
Most sleep medications won't work for more than a couple weeks if used on a nightly basis. Ambien, Sonata and Imovane are possible exceptions to this -- though nothing is strong enough to put me to sleep (except Xyrem and really high doses of barbiturates or opioids). Many find Ambien works wonderfully for them, though. But, just some advice, I would personally try switching medications before adding more and more meds to counteract side effects, you know? For what it's worth, I am taking Zyban (same as Wellbutrin SR) at a low dose, 150mg daily, and there is no negative interaction with my dextroamphetamine.
> Thanks so much
Anytime. :-) Any more questions, let me know; I'll get back to you on that whole metabolism issue when I find something.
This is the end of the thread.
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