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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by glove on August 7, 2003, at 13:18:21
Hello everyone, I have been reading this website for some time now but this is the first time that I have posted. I am at a difficult point right now and would really appreciate it if you guys could just tell me what you think.
When I was 16 I broke up with my boy of 3 years and got very depressed...went into hospital for a couple of weeks and put on Prozac and Lithium. But I was also taking Accutane which was later shown to cause severe depression in patients. Recovered but always had a little bit of anxiety and OCD...nothing that bothered me. Father has OCD bad. At 18 was switched to Celexa...don't remember why. Celexa worked the same all through college until last summer. My parents told me that they are getting divorced...Dad has been cheating. I didn't acknowledge my pain until last X-mas. I began having severe panic attacks and didn't leave the house for two weeks. I was put on Paxil (50 mg), stopped smoking, and stopped drinking all at the same time. Attacks went away but was then suicidal for a couple of days. I did some research and found that birth control can cause problems (which I had been put on in October) so I got off the BP pills and started Wellbutrin (150 mg in morning and 150 mg at night)...depression went away. Now, since then I have had residual anxiety...worrying about mom dying, about boyfriend leaving me, etc. Also, sometimes I find it impossible to get full breaths in. I have started tai chi and exercise. Therapist suggested going to pdoc to get med adjustment. Went to pdoc and he suggested lithium and that I may be bipolar type 2. Now, I looked at the symptoms of bpII and do not relate at all. No family history of BP. My only problems are a little bit of OCD (skin picking) and anxiety. I don't have sleeping problems, no excess energy, no spending sprees, no excess esteem...nothing. I have asked friends and family if they recognize any of these signs and they adamantly say no. Pdoc also said that Wellbutrin may be making anxiety worse and high blood pressure med may be causing problems too. So, this is where I stand. I do not think that I need Lithium. I have decided to cut back on my Wellbutrin to 150 mg in morning and to cut back on BP med because I am exercising more ( I will monitor it though). I am also about to start grad school. Isnt it possible that I am just greiving the loss of my father and that I am freaked out about grad school...I am having to take out $20,000 in loans. I just don't know what to think. Also, I am currently in therapy and am in the process of reviewing an emotionally abusive childhood. I know you guys aren't docs but I would just really like to know what you guys think. Should I maybe increase the paxil? I have Ativen but am too scared to use it. Thank you guys so much for listening...it is such a comfort.
Posted by Susan J on August 7, 2003, at 13:35:19
In reply to advice from all, please, posted by glove on August 7, 2003, at 13:18:21
Hi,
I'm 36, been through the Accutane-induced depression, and have had depression episodes since about 12 or so.
I'm not a doctor at all, but it sounds to me like you are coping wonderfully! My depression was so bad last summer, I couldn't function. I can't even begin to describe the emotional pain it caused -- how I feared the next second or next minute of my day because it could be even more painful.
I'm a lot better now, but when things happen in my life to make me sad, it's hard to distinguish between what is normal grieving vs. slipping back into depression.
From what you've written, it seems very normal to be upset about your parents' separation/divorce and school coming up. Definitely talk to your doctor about a medication adjustment to see if it's necessary. But remember, too, that meds and therapy won't shield you from life's lowpoints -- they are supposed to put you on normal footing to help you deal with life's good points and bad.
It sounds like you are doing a wonderful job with exercise, healthy eating, etc. Your parents' divorce could cause you ongoing depression "and" anger, and I think therapy would be the best way to deal with that. The school debt, well, as a lawyer with $43,000 in school loans, I can tell you it is a bit stressful, but I also think of school debt as "good" debt because you are investing in yourself. No one can take away your education.
Good luck with everything. Sounds like you are doing great, but it's always a good idea to stay in touch with the docs..... :-)
Posted by Angelic9144 on August 7, 2003, at 16:01:27
In reply to advice from all, please, posted by glove on August 7, 2003, at 13:18:21
You and I, we are the same you and I. I rec.
1. chuck the wellbutrin
2. exercise 4 days a week
3. try upping the paxil cr to 62.5 (if that makes you mroe nervous try anywhere between 37.5 and 72.5)I have OCD (mostly obsessions) + anxiety. Always was anxious but OCD came back full force my Senior year of high school (coincidentally AFTER I went on Accutane) of 1999. I went on Paxil CR right off the bat last year, worked like a DREAM. Once it kicked in I had 80% remission of the obsessions, 0 anxiety. Would go up to 10 girls on my univ. campus a day and get #s, felt like my old self.
Stopped working 4 months later. I spiraled back into anxiety and self consciousness. I maxed out Paxil at 150mg (I tolerate all these meds really well, w/ 0 s/e's) but I never felt how I did back on 37.5 or 50mg. Got on Effexor XR, didn't work, went up to 375, and down to 275.
Tried adding Wellbutrin. It is VERY activating and is not good for people like us, I rec. chucking it. It makes anxiety worse and didn't help my depression because I just got more nervous.
Threw that in the trash. I decided add Paxil back but with Effexor XR. Told my psych and he thought it was a good idea of mine, "enhanced serotonin effect" is what they say it would give me. Helped me get to 60% of my former self. Got off the effexor cold turkey, no s/es or withdrawals. Paxil worked just as good w/o effexor (which was proven to be ineffective). Some days felt ok, some days not, but I could tell it had pooped out.
Tapered paxil down from the 50 I was on to 0, 2 week washout. Went through a LOT of red tape to get Nardil. Pediatrician didn't deal w/ MAOIS. My psych refused me as a partial punishment for calling all the shots with my meds and told me he wanted me on Prozac or Luvox. I had to go to a new psych and lie and say I was on the max dose. I now have a years supply of Nardil @ 90mg/day :) :) :). I hate lying but now I don't have to worry about it.
Been on Nardil for 3.5 weeks. 3 weeks @ 45, 3 days @ 60.
Current mood:
- Anxiety spiking today as people walk around me in the office. I keep looking when people walk in my work area or around me, and glancing over, thus breaking my concentration. It sends a sort of panic (rush of blood if you will) as they walk by. Although yesterday I talked to a girl like my old self at the mall, flirted a bit. Didn't ask for her # since I'll be shopping there again, figure I'll wait to see if this kicks in more, and I'll have another chance. Trying to do things in baby steps.
Any insight, advice? :) THANKS!
Posted by KimberlyDi on August 7, 2003, at 19:03:31
In reply to advice from all, please, posted by glove on August 7, 2003, at 13:18:21
first of all, you have a lot on your plate, no matter what med you take. sounds like you need to calm your anxiety without dulling your brain for graduate school. Effexor would be out of the question because of the common memory problems people experience on it. (Effexor can also raise blood pressure) Paxil used to work well for my anxiety. Lots of people need cocktails of meds. You may need increased dosage of Paxil but also have something else added that's stronger in the depression area. definately see a p-doc for that.
Wellbutrin wasn't great for anxiety but when i took that, depression was my problem. needs change when you go through life.
On the other hand, you sound very intelligent. You are exercising and going to therapy. People who want to get well usually get well quicker. I know that. <grin> I willed a broken foot into submission because I missed dancing in clubs so much. Cast off, black laced-up-tightly boots on, I danced until my foot was too swollen, giving up around midnight to hop one-footed back to my car. My doctor was amazed. Mind over matter. You can do it.
KDi in Texas
> Hello everyone, I have been reading this website for some time now but this is the first time that I have posted. I am at a difficult point right now and would really appreciate it if you guys could just tell me what you think.
> When I was 16 I broke up with my boy of 3 years and got very depressed...went into hospital for a couple of weeks and put on Prozac and Lithium. But I was also taking Accutane which was later shown to cause severe depression in patients. Recovered but always had a little bit of anxiety and OCD...nothing that bothered me. Father has OCD bad. At 18 was switched to Celexa...don't remember why. Celexa worked the same all through college until last summer. My parents told me that they are getting divorced...Dad has been cheating. I didn't acknowledge my pain until last X-mas. I began having severe panic attacks and didn't leave the house for two weeks. I was put on Paxil (50 mg), stopped smoking, and stopped drinking all at the same time. Attacks went away but was then suicidal for a couple of days. I did some research and found that birth control can cause problems (which I had been put on in October) so I got off the BP pills and started Wellbutrin (150 mg in morning and 150 mg at night)...depression went away. Now, since then I have had residual anxiety...worrying about mom dying, about boyfriend leaving me, etc. Also, sometimes I find it impossible to get full breaths in. I have started tai chi and exercise. Therapist suggested going to pdoc to get med adjustment. Went to pdoc and he suggested lithium and that I may be bipolar type 2. Now, I looked at the symptoms of bpII and do not relate at all. No family history of BP. My only problems are a little bit of OCD (skin picking) and anxiety. I don't have sleeping problems, no excess energy, no spending sprees, no excess esteem...nothing. I have asked friends and family if they recognize any of these signs and they adamantly say no. Pdoc also said that Wellbutrin may be making anxiety worse and high blood pressure med may be causing problems too. So, this is where I stand. I do not think that I need Lithium. I have decided to cut back on my Wellbutrin to 150 mg in morning and to cut back on BP med because I am exercising more ( I will monitor it though). I am also about to start grad school. Isnt it possible that I am just greiving the loss of my father and that I am freaked out about grad school...I am having to take out $20,000 in loans. I just don't know what to think. Also, I am currently in therapy and am in the process of reviewing an emotionally abusive childhood. I know you guys aren't docs but I would just really like to know what you guys think. Should I maybe increase the paxil? I have Ativen but am too scared to use it. Thank you guys so much for listening...it is such a comfort.
Posted by KimberlyDi on August 7, 2003, at 19:06:08
In reply to advice from all, please, posted by glove on August 7, 2003, at 13:18:21
ps, don't sweat the loan. You are investing in yourself. as good as an investment in a house. but don't take on too much. if therapy is too painful, back off the difficult stuff until summer break.
take CARE of yourself.
:)
KDi in Texas
Posted by galkeepinon on August 10, 2003, at 0:18:39
In reply to advice from all, please, posted by glove on August 7, 2003, at 13:18:21
WOW!!! I feel like I am reading my post! I have had residual anxiety...worrying about mom dying-really, really BAD up until I started Lexapro a week ago-and after reading this, I just realized that I haven't thought that way since starting the Lexapro-a new med for me. I'm wondering about Accutane myself too, I was on it, but couldn't finish full treatment because of side effects and I barely had acne-my family, friends, and my boyfriend at the time was like you're face is fine-looking back I did NOT need to be on Accutane. To this day, I truly believe it has made my depression worse. My grandmother and brother have OCD BAD!!!
It sounds like between the divorce, and you stopping smoking and drinking at the same time with all the other stress, is causing you distress and I'm so sorry to hear that-I truly am.
I've never been able to go on BC pills due to exactly what you said in this post too, it caused problems-depression made worse, etc.
**This was interesting, I was diagnosed with BP2 and I tried Lithium this summer. It did wonders for 2 weeks-but then I had all sorts of side effects-I could NOT and would not tolerate it anymore so I took myself off of it. I don't have the classical symptoms of bipolar either-excessive spending sprees, yada yada yada-everything the DSMIV states, but BP2 tends to be characterized by a more depressive side with hypomania tendencies. That's what I get. I currently take Lamictal, Lexapro, and Klonopin, and am doing pretty good, the rest-meds won't help. I have school loans also about $25,000 right now, but I know I will pay them off when I am done with school. It sounds like you are overwhelmed, and rightfully so!!!!!!
I am glad to hear you are in therapy, that will help a lot. Even going through emotionally abusive childhood issues, again, can be adding to your stress and frustration.
I tried Ativan, it worked well for me in conjunction with a 12-step program and therapy-so it may help you?
Keep me posted, I really hope you feel better and things get to where you feel better:-)
Gal
> Hello everyone, I have been reading this website for some time now but this is the first time that I have posted. I am at a difficult point right now and would really appreciate it if you guys could just tell me what you think.
> When I was 16 I broke up with my boy of 3 years and got very depressed...went into hospital for a couple of weeks and put on Prozac and Lithium. But I was also taking Accutane which was later shown to cause severe depression in patients. Recovered but always had a little bit of anxiety and OCD...nothing that bothered me. Father has OCD bad. At 18 was switched to Celexa...don't remember why. Celexa worked the same all through college until last summer. My parents told me that they are getting divorced...Dad has been cheating. I didn't acknowledge my pain until last X-mas. I began having severe panic attacks and didn't leave the house for two weeks. I was put on Paxil (50 mg), stopped smoking, and stopped drinking all at the same time. Attacks went away but was then suicidal for a couple of days. I did some research and found that birth control can cause problems (which I had been put on in October) so I got off the BP pills and started Wellbutrin (150 mg in morning and 150 mg at night)...depression went away. Now, since then I have had residual anxiety...worrying about mom dying, about boyfriend leaving me, etc. Also, sometimes I find it impossible to get full breaths in. I have started tai chi and exercise. Therapist suggested going to pdoc to get med adjustment. Went to pdoc and he suggested lithium and that I may be bipolar type 2. Now, I looked at the symptoms of bpII and do not relate at all. No family history of BP. My only problems are a little bit of OCD (skin picking) and anxiety. I don't have sleeping problems, no excess energy, no spending sprees, no excess esteem...nothing. I have asked friends and family if they recognize any of these signs and they adamantly say no. Pdoc also said that Wellbutrin may be making anxiety worse and high blood pressure med may be causing problems too. So, this is where I stand. I do not think that I need Lithium. I have decided to cut back on my Wellbutrin to 150 mg in morning and to cut back on BP med because I am exercising more ( I will monitor it though). I am also about to start grad school. Isnt it possible that I am just greiving the loss of my father and that I am freaked out about grad school...I am having to take out $20,000 in loans. I just don't know what to think. Also, I am currently in therapy and am in the process of reviewing an emotionally abusive childhood. I know you guys aren't docs but I would just really like to know what you guys think. Should I maybe increase the paxil? I have Ativen but am too scared to use it. Thank you guys so much for listening...it is such a comfort.
Posted by galkeepinon on August 10, 2003, at 0:23:03
In reply to Re: advice from all, please » glove, posted by KimberlyDi on August 7, 2003, at 19:06:08
An education is something no one can ever ever ever take away from you *glove* remember that-it is well worth it;-)
> ps, don't sweat the loan. You are investing in yourself. as good as an investment in a house. but don't take on too much. if therapy is too painful, back off the difficult stuff until summer break.
>
> take CARE of yourself.
> :)
> KDi in Texas
Posted by glove on August 10, 2003, at 12:18:57
In reply to Right. don't sweat the loan :-).............glove., posted by galkeepinon on August 10, 2003, at 0:23:03
You guys are so great! I spoke with my pdoc and we decided that I would taper off of my Wellbutrin and blood pressure medication (leaving only the 50 mg of Paxil) and see how I do after a couple of weeks. I really do not think that I am bipolar, seriously. Also I am looking at taking a new supplement...do you guys know anything about GABA? I just feel so much better knowing that you guys are here. I cannot thank ya'll enough.
Posted by galkeepinon on August 10, 2003, at 20:38:44
In reply to Re: Right. don't sweat the loan :-).............glove., posted by glove on August 10, 2003, at 12:18:57
I also take Topamax-started it in late April-has done wonders for me and my weight too:-)
> You guys are so great! I spoke with my pdoc and we decided that I would taper off of my Wellbutrin and blood pressure medication (leaving only the 50 mg of Paxil) and see how I do after a couple of weeks. I really do not think that I am bipolar, seriously. Also I am looking at taking a new supplement...do you guys know anything about GABA? I just feel so much better knowing that you guys are here. I cannot thank ya'll enough.
Posted by Simcha on August 11, 2003, at 12:41:02
In reply to Re: Right. don't sweat the loan :-).............glove., posted by glove on August 10, 2003, at 12:18:57
Glove,
First off, $20,000 sounds cheap for grad school for me. When I get done I will have $75,000 in loans to pay off. (I'm studying to be an MFT "Marriage and Family Therapist" in California in a private school.) I see it as an investment in me. I believe that I'm worth it. I also believe you are worth it.
Also the interest rates for student loans are ridiculously low right now. The unsubsidized portion of my loans gather 2.75% annually. They are practically giving the money away at interest rates like that.
I have some OCD. My diagnosis is Major Depressive Disorder. I tolerate meds that seem not to work for you.
One med I do take is Neurontin. It works on GABA. Basically I take it as an anti-convulsant and it reduces anxiety. It is a slight hypnotic for me. I take 600mg at night. 600mg per day is actually a low dose. It is therapeutically significant for me.
Without the Neurontin I clench my jaw and grind my teeth at night. I end up biting my tongue and cheeks. Also I have restless legs. The Neurontin is working to keep these anxiety disorders in check while I sleep.
Blessings,
Simcha
> You guys are so great! I spoke with my pdoc and we decided that I would taper off of my Wellbutrin and blood pressure medication (leaving only the 50 mg of Paxil) and see how I do after a couple of weeks. I really do not think that I am bipolar, seriously. Also I am looking at taking a new supplement...do you guys know anything about GABA? I just feel so much better knowing that you guys are here. I cannot thank ya'll enough.
Posted by katia on August 13, 2003, at 2:51:39
In reply to Re: OK, Please don't sweat the loan at all... :-) » glove, posted by Simcha on August 11, 2003, at 12:41:02
Hi,
just piggy backing on Simcha, I too am in grad school (very expensive and private in n. cal.) and I am well beyond your amount. I feel I'm doing my soul and spirit such healing that I can't imagine spending this money on anything but my own healing! I hate to advocate for spending money, but I finally bite the bullet and took out student loans and finally I can breathe!!!
If you can create enough space in life, something essential can emerge. it's how I'm looking at it after years of cramming things in.
It is tough figuring out the meds with grad school. I've been going thru' it the past year after a suicidal depression last summer too.
I took out student loans recently just to pay for my pdoc and meds! it's totally worth it for me! otherwise, where would I be?
katia
Posted by galkeepinon on August 13, 2003, at 3:32:45
In reply to financial or emotional debt? » Simcha, posted by katia on August 13, 2003, at 2:51:39
I have to admit, I live off my student loans. Besides paying for school it helps with other expenses too. I think a lot of us do. LOL :-)
> Hi,
> just piggy backing on Simcha, I too am in grad school (very expensive and private in n. cal.) and I am well beyond your amount. I feel I'm doing my soul and spirit such healing that I can't imagine spending this money on anything but my own healing! I hate to advocate for spending money, but I finally bite the bullet and took out student loans and finally I can breathe!!!
> If you can create enough space in life, something essential can emerge. it's how I'm looking at it after years of cramming things in.
> It is tough figuring out the meds with grad school. I've been going thru' it the past year after a suicidal depression last summer too.
> I took out student loans recently just to pay for my pdoc and meds! it's totally worth it for me! otherwise, where would I be?
> katia
Posted by Simcha on August 13, 2003, at 4:32:44
In reply to Re: financial or emotional debt? » katia, posted by galkeepinon on August 13, 2003, at 3:32:45
Galkeepinon and Katia,
Katia, you speak from my very soul. I'm going to school in Orinda, CA at JFKU. I'm getting an MA in Counseling Psychology with a Specialization in Transpersonal Psychology. This is all about my healing and helping others to heal, thus strengthening my healing process. My debts will be large. I know I will be able to pay it all back. I have a business plan forming and I might not get licensed because I find the BBS here in California to be way to Orwellian (1984) (Gestapo like...).
Galkeepinon,
Man, without student loans there is no way I would be able to afford to live in the San Francisco Bay Area without student loans. I borrow to the max. This means $18,500 per three quarters. We do four quarters in a year and it's a three year program. You do the math. If I chose to do the non-licensed route, I will be making more money faster. I could even go for a Ph.D. and pay for it. I have a niche that is endless for this area.
Many Blessings on All of Your Studies All of You!
Simcha> I have to admit, I live off my student loans. Besides paying for school it helps with other expenses too. I think a lot of us do. LOL :-)
>
>
>
> > Hi,
> > just piggy backing on Simcha, I too am in grad school (very expensive and private in n. cal.) and I am well beyond your amount. I feel I'm doing my soul and spirit such healing that I can't imagine spending this money on anything but my own healing! I hate to advocate for spending money, but I finally bite the bullet and took out student loans and finally I can breathe!!!
> > If you can create enough space in life, something essential can emerge. it's how I'm looking at it after years of cramming things in.
> > It is tough figuring out the meds with grad school. I've been going thru' it the past year after a suicidal depression last summer too.
> > I took out student loans recently just to pay for my pdoc and meds! it's totally worth it for me! otherwise, where would I be?
> > katia
>
>
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 13, 2003, at 7:48:06
In reply to financial or emotional debt? » Simcha, posted by katia on August 13, 2003, at 2:51:39
> I feel I'm doing my soul and spirit such healing that I can't imagine spending this money on anything but my own healing!
This is an important issue, but doesn't have that much to do with medication, so I'd like to redirect it to Psycho-Social-Babble. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20030808/msgs/250488.html
Bob
This is the end of the thread.
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