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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 5 of 5. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by david_maclean on July 23, 2003, at 14:48:15
I came across something tucked away in a document (se below for reference) which said that MAOI's can cause mood elevation in normal individuals.
Is this true?
It would certainly fit witht the idea that MAOIs have some amphetamine-like metabolites.
But is the statement that MAOI's can cause mood elevation in normal individuals actually true?
David==========
REFERENCE:
April 2003
Antidepressant and Stimulant Drugs
H.K. Proudfit
Dept. of Pharmacology
University of Iowa
http://www.medicine.uiowa.edu/pharmacology/Lectures/Lecturenotes/111/HKP-Antidepressants.pdfThe item is at the top of Page three
Posted by Jack Smith on July 23, 2003, at 15:35:34
In reply to Do MAOIs make normal people high?, posted by david_maclean on July 23, 2003, at 14:48:15
> Is this true?
>
> It would certainly fit witht the idea that MAOIs have some amphetamine-like metabolites.
>
> But is the statement that MAOI's can cause mood elevation in normal individuals actually true?
>The link you provided does not work. As for the question, I remember Dr. Bodkin commenting in an article that MAOI's uniquely provide a more euphoric AD effect than the other classes so I would guess that it is not out of the question that "normal" (whatever the hell that means) people could get a high using them but I would imagine that they would have to wait at least a week for the high.
As for the amphetamine metabolites, from what I understand that theory has been debunked.
JACK
Posted by rod on July 23, 2003, at 17:32:15
In reply to Re: Do MAOIs make normal people high?, posted by Jack Smith on July 23, 2003, at 15:35:34
> The link you provided does not work.try the url without ">" at the end of the line. in "url language" %3E. then it works...
Posted by david_maclean on July 24, 2003, at 2:12:27
In reply to Re: Do MAOIs make normal people high?, posted by Jack Smith on July 23, 2003, at 15:35:34
David Maclean wrote:
> >
> > Is this true?
> >
> > It would certainly fit witht the idea that MAOIs have some amphetamine-like
> > metabolites.
> >
> > But is the statement that MAOI's can cause mood elevation in normal
> > individuals actually true?
> >
>JACK wrote:
>
> I remember Dr. Bodkin commenting in an article that MAOI's uniquely
> provide a more euphoric AD effect than the other classes so I would
> guess that it is not out of the question that "normal" (whatever the
> hell that means) people could get a high using them but I would
> imagine that they would have to wait at least a week for the high.
That's interesting. I have low grade chronic depression and I get a response (not really a "high" but something like that) after only a few days on Moclobemide. Of course it depends on what dose one starts at. If one is starting very cautiously then it may take a little bit longer.My impression is that this is not unusual for people who take MAOIs.
This is so fast and is so contrary to textbooks on antidepresants (which talk about a couple of weeks or more to get a beneficial response) that I do not understand it. It most definitely occurs though!
>
> As for the amphetamine metabolites, from what I understand that theory
> has been debunked.
>Do you or anyone else have any more information on this?
Thank you.
-------
>
> The link you provided does not work.
>Try http://www.medicine.uiowa.edu/pharmacology/Lectures/Lecturenotes/111/HKP-Antidepressants.pdf
The link should take you stright to a PDF document.
If that fails then Google for "proudfit maoi mood elevation" and the only two hits you get are both the authors documents which contain the statement that MAOIs can elevate mood in normals.
Posted by john k on July 25, 2003, at 13:35:11
In reply to Do MAOIs make normal people high?, posted by david_maclean on July 23, 2003, at 14:48:15
> I came across something tucked away in a document (se below for reference) which said that MAOI's can cause mood elevation in normal individuals.
MAO-B inhibitor experiencesI have had some pretty exciting experiences with the MAO-B selective inhibitor selegiline (aka Deprenyl) for the past two months.
My initial chemical 'environment'It all started out by my transfer from Prozac (at 63 mgs/day--nothing beats exact dosings! ;) to Efexor XR. During the first couple of weeks I got some wonderful dopaminergic drives--both for general achievement and for sex--alot! This was very welcome, since (as probably most of you have experienced) the Prozac pretty much killed my sexdrive.
Those effects started to fade away by week three however.I was by then using the max dose of Efexor (375 mg) so I didn't want to go higher--and it had been difficult to persuade my pdoc to prescribe more. But after yet another week I turned pretty blue. I was feeling very, very low-serotonergic, with the OCD resurfacing and feelings of social distress coming up, in addition to plain old depressive feelings.
P-doc problemsI really didn't know what to do. I did a lot of researching on the web (PB psychopharmacology tips inter alia) and found out that a number of people have been successful on a combo of Efexor and Prozac. Unfortunately, my pdoc is a moron and a coward (excuse my language but it's unfortunately true) and would under no circumstances let me combine those meds (I've asked for similar things before, always met with the reply that "that's something we don't do".).
I had to be my own doc, and hey I'm the best I've had!So, I set out to do some psychopharmacological exploration on my own (as always, deeply inspired by the great guru of the trade, David Pearce of neuropharmacology.com). I added Prozac to the Efexor (still had lots of P/z left). After a few days on the combo I was back in the game, big-time! I was dopaminergically driven again and this time with a truly highserotonergic mind as well! But, the dopaminergic effect faded now too, leaving me with a very nice serotonergic effect (with a level of functioning in terms of happiness and achievement probably way above that of the average 'normal' person).
And now for ***selegiline***!I was doing great, by any measurement, but I missed that driven feeling (it's great--and I know, I sound like a junkie and I guess I am one, only with much better drugs available!). I took a look at the options and soon found out that the best dopaminergic out there definitely must be the MAO-B inhibitor selegiline. In addition to increasing dopamine, it increases the 'love' chemical phenytethylamine and lengthens the lifespan of rats by 40%. So I ordered a bunch of pills from an online pharmacy, and was lucky enough to have it pass customs without interception (this is in Scandinavia, and this kind of selfmedication-imports is illegal).
Its effectsI've gotten the dopamin-drive back, which means that I achieve a whole lot more; interact with a whole lot more people, while enjoying it much more; more interested in dating wonderful girls and actually making it happen; looking better--by the way girls look at me I think I ought to become a model ;).
The most typical effect is, I believe, that the medication lifts up what formerly were just pie in the sky daydreams into strong desires, making my body and mind perform the various actions almost automatically. I've also gained lots of muscles since I actually go and exercise instead of just planning to do it.Alright, this sounds like a sales presentation. A caveat would be that a great response to selegiline (like the one I have had in a stable way for almost two months now) probably requires a very well functioning serotonin system. Otherwise you may get into trouble--low MAO-B levels are closely correlated with criminal behavior, for example. And the drug would probably give a lot of anxiety were it not for the great effects I have from Efexor and Prozac. My doses for the VFS-combo (venlafaxin, fluoxetine, selegiline) are 375, 35, and 10, respectively.
So for the original question of the this thread: I believe I was 'normal' (not ill) before using selegiline, and it made me euphoric, life-loving, hedonistic--I guess that equals 'high', but without the negative effects normally associated with the state.
Be very, very careful though if you want to explore these things yourself! I have done some drug trials on my own before, often resulting in complete crashes.
Oops, another caveat is the fact that I've had some major mental 'muscle-building' going for the last 16 months thanks to a brain wave synchronizing technology called Holosync. That makes me much less sensitive to anxiety and may help to explain my wonderful med-effects.
Wow, that was a mouthful!
Cheers,
John
> Is this true?
>
> It would certainly fit witht the idea that MAOIs have some amphetamine-like metabolites.
>
> But is the statement that MAOI's can cause mood elevation in normal individuals actually true?
>
>
> David
>
> ==========
>
> REFERENCE:
>
> April 2003
> Antidepressant and Stimulant Drugs
> H.K. Proudfit
> Dept. of Pharmacology
> University of Iowa
> http://www.medicine.uiowa.edu/pharmacology/Lectures/Lecturenotes/111/HKP-Antidepressants.pdf
>
> The item is at the top of Page three
>
This is the end of the thread.
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