![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 6 of 6. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by den2 on March 31, 2003, at 18:13:35
nm
Posted by falconman on April 1, 2003, at 1:47:07
In reply to is kava kava as effective as benzos?, posted by den2 on March 31, 2003, at 18:13:35
Hi,
I have given Kava a couple of long trials at high doses, and It did nothing significant for me.
Benzo's give definite instant release, which I don't beleive you can get from Kava. However It is supposed to have some really nice properties such as a calmed alertness rather than sedation. Its worth a try, maybe it'll be of benefit.
peace
Mark
Posted by catmint on April 1, 2003, at 15:56:22
In reply to Re: is kava kava as effective as benzos?, posted by falconman on April 1, 2003, at 1:47:07
>I have given Kava a couple of long trials at high doses, and It did nothing significant for me.
>Hello Mark,
I am curious what you consider a high dose is? When Kava Kava is used in Western medical herbology, it is almost always used in ineffective doses or improper formulations (i.e. herb teas). Preparation of an effective concoction involves bringing the lactone resins into an emulsion, as this is the active portion of the root (containing the yangonine and kawaine) is relatively insoluble in water. The potency depends on the variety used as well as how effectively the prepatation method releases the resins from the woody rhizome and brings it into an emulsion for drinking.The traditional method of prepaing Kava by the people of New Guinea is a drink that is so pungent and soapy flavored, that in full strength, few Westerners would be inclined to regular use.
I have used Kava in this manner and found it to be extremely effective as a sedative, yet it did not cloud mental awareness. The problem is that it is is difficult to drink this stuff, it can really make you gag!
As for comparing it to Benzos, I have only taken Valium once and it caused euphoria, which Kava does not. Don't know about Klonopin.
By the way, this information is from the Botanical Preservation Corps, Box 1368, Sebastopol, Ca 95473
They make a number of produts that are far better than those you get from your average health food store. One such product is a liquid extract, employing the whole resin.
Posted by Viridis on April 1, 2003, at 20:45:09
In reply to is kava kava as effective as benzos?, posted by den2 on March 31, 2003, at 18:13:35
I've tried kava kava in various forms, at various doses. I agree with Catmint that the liquid emulsion is most effective, but very hard to swallow (literally) -- it tasted to me sort of like a weird mixture of dish detergent and very strong cilantro, with a slimy mouth feel.
I have gotten some calming benefits from it, but find benzos much more effective and reliable.
One concern with kava is that long-term use can cause health problems, and it's been linked to quite a few cases of liver failure. I believe that it was recently pulled off the market in Canada for this reason. So, just because it's "natural" doesn't necessarily mean it's safe, although it is used traditionally and apparently regularly in some parts of the South Pacific.
Posted by Sarah S on April 2, 2003, at 15:07:23
In reply to Re: is kava kava as effective as benzos? » falconman, posted by catmint on April 1, 2003, at 15:56:22
I've never tried kava before, but I use another natural sedative called valerian root, which you may want to try. My pdoc abruptly stopped prescribing Ativan for me, so I've been easing my gradual withdrawal from Ativan by taking valerian. I think it's actually working--unlike the other time I tried to quit Ativan, I haven't been having any mood swings or rebound anxiety. A few words of warning, though: valerian is possibly bad for your health if you take it for the long term, and furthermore I don't think it would work for severe anxiety. But. . .if your anxiety right now is mild and you just want a natural, short-term treatment, valerian can work.
Posted by catmint on April 2, 2003, at 15:29:47
In reply to Re: is kava kava as effective as benzos?, posted by Viridis on April 1, 2003, at 20:45:09
It is wise to be concious of the use of this herb. Heavy users (local chiefs and visionaries of the South Pacific), have been known to develop 'crocodilianism' or flaking of the skin, yellow eyes and utter lethargy, evidently from an overload on the liver which processes the resins. Such effects are associated with very heavy daily intake over a period of years, so it is hard to imagine any Westerner having such an adverse reaction. It is entitely possible that those persons who had liver failure from supposed use of Kava, already had a preexisting condition.
The FDA is hasty to restrict use of any herb that is associated with a handful of bad reaction. Similar restrictions have been replaced on Comfrey. It has potentially harmful chemicals, and like Kava should not be use heavily or over prolonged periods, but the benefits far outweigh this.
Often, a single chemical component of an herb is isolated and concentrated (i.e. a standardized extract). Without the sum total of all the hundreds of chemical components within the plant, the action of the herb on the body is altered. This denatured method is safe with benign herbs like St. John's Wort, but is it as effective as the whole herb? That is questionable.
As for Kava, the issue is not effectiveness but rather, safety, of which it is completely, if used wisely.
I am not sure if Kava comes in a standardized extract but if it does, that could be the reason for the negative reacions unless of course these people are taking above and beyond what a rational dose would be.
Perhaps Larry Hoover is reading and could chime in. I know he agrees with me about standardized extracts.
Amy
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.