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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 5 of 5. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by McPac on December 8, 2002, at 15:58:33
This question could apply to many, many people on this board.
I take Zoloft to increase my serotonin level.
Are there other ways---natural remedies---that could JUST AS EFFECTIVELY raise serotonin levels, thereby replacing the Zoloft?
I know there are other ways to raise the level..BUT can someone raise the level AS MUCH naturally as they can with a drug?
I've read about SAM-e and other natural amino acids, vitamins, minerals, etc., but am wondering if anyone here has been able to successfully, LONG TERM pull this off? I figured that I'd ask you Larry, since you have a scientific background..was wondering if you've ever been able to put together a comination of products that replaced the anti-dep. that you're on (if you are on one)? It would seem that someone would be able to combine enough supplements to replace an anti-dep. However, I don't seem to read about anyone here completely replacing their meds with supplements. Any response (by anybody) would be appreciated!
Posted by mattdds on December 8, 2002, at 17:37:29
In reply to Larry Hoover/ Anybody, posted by McPac on December 8, 2002, at 15:58:33
Hey McPac,
I'm afraid I don't know much about naturally occuring compounds that would augment serotonin levels. Sorry. Larry Hoover is smart and seems to know lots about this stuff.
The question does occur to me, however: why exactly do you want to "increase your serotonin levels"?
What exactly is bothering you and when? What convinces you that raising your brain serotonin levels will solve the problem? Has increasing your serotonin levels with Zoloft solved such problem? If so, why do you want to switch to something natural?
Please do not misinterpret this as cynical or sarcastic! This is certainly not my intention!
However you accomplish it, I hope you get feeling well.
Matt
Posted by BrittPark on December 8, 2002, at 18:28:15
In reply to Larry Hoover/ Anybody, posted by McPac on December 8, 2002, at 15:58:33
I think you are perhaps oversimplifying the Zoloft (or any other SSRI) story. The immediate effect of SSRIs is to increase serotonin levels in certain parts of the brain. It is not at all clear that this is what relieves depression. The fact that it takes several weeks for SSRIs to work argues for a more subtle set of changes.
As to your original question I do not believe that there are any really effective "natural" antidepressants. St John's Wort does enjoy a certain popularity but has never been shown to be effective for anything other than mild to moderate depression. In short I think you are better off with an SSRI than with a "natural" remedy.
Feel well,
Britt
Posted by Larry Hoover on December 9, 2002, at 9:36:17
In reply to Larry Hoover/ Anybody, posted by McPac on December 8, 2002, at 15:58:33
> This question could apply to many, many people on this board.
> I take Zoloft to increase my serotonin level.
> Are there other ways---natural remedies---that could JUST AS EFFECTIVELY raise serotonin levels, thereby replacing the Zoloft?If there was a simple answer to that question, I think we'd already know it. There are lots of things you can do that might help, but few will have the dramatic effect of a drug that directly acts on the brain.
> I know there are other ways to raise the level..BUT can someone raise the level AS MUCH naturally as they can with a drug?
> I've read about SAM-e and other natural amino acids, vitamins, minerals, etc., but am wondering if anyone here has been able to successfully, LONG TERM pull this off? I figured that I'd ask you Larry, since you have a scientific background..was wondering if you've ever been able to put together a comination of products that replaced the anti-dep. that you're on (if you are on one)?Over time, I'm more resilient. I don't get hit as hard by mood declines as I once did, and they don't seem to last as long. Now is that because of supplemental nutrition, or because I have a tool-box full of coping strategies learned through cognitive-behavioural therapy? I don't know, and I'm the expert on me.
I'm not anti-med, but I am med-avoidant. I'm on Remeron right now, but it's the first time I've been medicated in a couple years. I'm med-avoidant because I don't tolerate them well, not because I worry that they'll hurt me, or something. And maybe if I was a little bit more focussed on my supplements, I wouldn't have let myself get run down again. <shrug>
>It would seem that someone would be able to combine enough supplements to replace an anti-dep. However, I don't seem to read about anyone here completely replacing their meds with supplements. Any response (by anybody) would be appreciated!
Well, people talking about EmPower + have been saying that it might replace meds, It's a comprehensive nutritional supplement, but it's rather arbitrary about what's in it, and how much. I think individuals might vary substantially on how much and how much of what they need added to their diet.
Supplements have two purposes, broadly speaking. One is obvious, to overcome any deficiencies which have occurred. Stress alone can change an adequate diet into an inadequate one, and anyone who knows depression knows stress. The other purpose is the one that is tricky, and it's only tricky because we're all so individual. It has to do with genetic defects. If pressed to do so, I could probably come up with a list of over 100 different enzyme defects that could lead to the symptoms of depression. And, as far as I know, there is very little you can do to figure out just what is going wrong. Depression is simply proof that something is awry. So, there is that element of experimentation, intuition, and all that kind of stuff, in the realm of supplements and herbs.
It's my opinion that the biochemical disturbance that leads to depression is ongoing for years, if not decades, before the symptoms break the surface into consciousness. Attempts to remedy those disturbances are bound to take some time as well. And, there's maybe something else to consider. I use metaphor a lot, so I hope this one does the trick.
If you own a car, and you get really busy and forget all about changing the oil or topping it up, you can get into some long-term problems. One day, the light bulb goes on (either in your head or on the dash), you pop the hood, pull the dipstick, and there's no oil even on the stick. After a Homer Simpson moment, you get some oil and bring it up to the full mark. But afterwards, the motor starts going through oil at a rate far above what it used to do. So, you have to start paying intimate attention to the oil level, constantly topping it up. It needs far more oil than it ever did, and it will continue to need that oil far into the future.
Well, maybe our bodies are something like that motor. Maybe we need extra supplements simply because we've once been depressed.
What supplements, and how much? I can only offer guidelines, at best. Look at all the debate around fish oil. One guy can't take any because of insomnia, while another swears by 5 grams a day of EPA/DHA. You can only know by "doing the experiment". No amount of thinking will give you any evidence.
Posted by McPac on December 9, 2002, at 15:11:48
In reply to Re: Larry Hoover/ Anybody, posted by Larry Hoover on December 9, 2002, at 9:36:17
Thanks Larry!
Your responses are always very much appreciated!
This is the end of the thread.
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