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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Suzi on December 2, 2002, at 5:30:48
Once a drug is taken (In this case let's say an SSRI) does the brain go through actual physical changes? And if so, can it (the brain) ever return to it's original state once the drugs are stopped?
I see so many people who have tired every drug under the sun, does this ultimately cause any sort of damage?
Posted by linkadge on December 2, 2002, at 7:19:27
In reply to Receptor/brain damage?, posted by Suzi on December 2, 2002, at 5:30:48
I invite you to read some of the above posts on this topic. In general these drugs go through rigorous testing to see for their potential to dammage the brain. In general they do not induce irreversable changes.
The best analogy I can give is the following.
You need glasses and so your eyes strain and strain to see what others see clearly. Finally you get the right prescription. After this your eyes don't need to work as hard, and begin to adjust to the glasses. After you take the glasses off, you see worse than you did without them because your eyes are not working as hard as they did before getting the glasses.It is the same with the brain, it ajusts to a medication. When you were depressesed, you probably had a million and a half little coping mechanizms, or sayings to keep you going. After you take the med that works, you don't need these and drop these things. Many people who go off their meds mistake this as brain dammage.
They feel worse than they began the meds - this is true.Now if you gave it enough time - without the meds and without glasses, your brain/eyes would return its/their prior state of overwork.
The brain has incredable placticity. But it can only go so far.
Linkadge
Posted by rjk on December 2, 2002, at 8:19:31
In reply to Receptor/brain damage?, posted by Suzi on December 2, 2002, at 5:30:48
Antidepressants work by damaging brain receptors and by changing a persons EEG. This is a medical fact. However, in most people their brain will return to normal after several months off the drugs, usually 3 to 4 months.
> Once a drug is taken (In this case let's say an SSRI) does the brain go through actual physical changes? And if so, can it (the brain) ever return to it's original state once the drugs are stopped?
>
> I see so many people who have tired every drug under the sun, does this ultimately cause any sort of damage?
Posted by rjk on December 2, 2002, at 8:23:07
In reply to Re: Receptor/brain damage?, posted by linkadge on December 2, 2002, at 7:19:27
If I had known how these drugs work I would never have taken them. If you want a more detailed reason for why I am saying this, see my post higher up this page titled "How psychiatry ruined my life"
Posted by linkadge on December 2, 2002, at 8:42:51
In reply to Re: Receptor/brain damage? » linkadge, posted by rjk on December 2, 2002, at 8:23:07
I understand that some people who come here
have had very bad experiences with medication, psychiatrists and the like.These medications do not work by dammaging brain receptors, in fact, when an antidepressant works it causes a significant increase in the volume of the hippocampus. Also, when an antidepresant works it also prompts the developement of a significant number of new neural connections.
In, general people who come to this board are the ones who are having problems with their medications. They are looking for help.
For the majority of people out there who get depressed, these medications help to sucessfully abort a painful depression, and when it is finished, they have no problem tapering of the medication.
Posted by Larry Hoover on December 2, 2002, at 8:52:16
In reply to Receptor/brain damage?, posted by Suzi on December 2, 2002, at 5:30:48
> Once a drug is taken (In this case let's say an SSRI) does the brain go through actual physical changes? And if so, can it (the brain) ever return to it's original state once the drugs are stopped?
Yes, and yes. Antidepressants cause changes in the way your genes are expressed, but they don't affect the genes themselves. One of the most important aspects about current brain research is that we are discovering that long-held assumptions about the brain just aren't true. You're constantly growing new brain cells (so long as your brain is stimulated), changing connections between cells, changing the sensitivity and number of receptors, and so on. Antidepressants take a few weeks to work, it is now presumed (only a theory), because it takes a few weeks for the gradual physical changes in receptor number and sensitivity to have a substantial impact on the way the brain is wired.
> I see so many people who have tired every drug under the sun, does this ultimately cause any sort of damage?
I have not found any compelling evidence for that conclusion. There are short-term changes which occur in the withdrawal phase which raise concern, but there is always re-adaptation to the drug-free state. I like Linkadge's analogy to wearing glasses. When you take them off, your vision is quite blurry. Did the glasses damage the eye? No. You've simply become accustomed to the changes the glasses provide.
Posted by djmmm on December 2, 2002, at 11:18:48
In reply to Receptor/brain damage?, posted by Suzi on December 2, 2002, at 5:30:48
I think Larry Hoover offers the best explanation. Antidepressants (ssri) do cause such changes in neurons as morphology, activity, size/number. Dammage refers to destruction of a neuron or axon terminal, and is generally not postive, whereas "changes" can and do elicit positive results.
Studies show SSRIs increase the number of neurons in various parts of the brain, and cause downregulation of various receptors, resulting in their antidepressant effects.
There is only one study I can think mentioned brain damage, and very large doses of SSRIs were used. The theory behind this method was to mimic what long term SSRI use would do to the brain. I haven't seen any similar studies
As far as "returning to normal" after antidepressant use, I believe the changes caused by SSRIs are permanent or at very least semi-permanent. One general rule is to be on the medications one year after you feel better, at least that is what my docs tell me...to ensure that these "changes" have occured, and lesson the risk of a relapse when I stop.
Posted by FredPotter on December 2, 2002, at 14:03:32
In reply to Re: Receptor/brain damage?, posted by Larry Hoover on December 2, 2002, at 8:52:16
A theory I read recently was that serotonin has a quite separate property of stimulating nerve cell regeneration, and that is what SSRIs do to relieve depression and why it takes a few weeks to happen
Posted by rjk on December 4, 2002, at 9:14:33
In reply to Re: Receptor/brain damage?, posted by Larry Hoover on December 2, 2002, at 8:52:16
I can provided you with definite proof that antidepressants can cause long term brain damage.
This is the end of the thread.
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