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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by shellyvv on November 28, 2002, at 16:51:58
I have been taking effexor for about 4 years and seroquel for almost a year. I at one time took lithium for less than 6 months my hair is falling out horribly I am curious if seroquel or effexor could be causing my hairloss as I stopped taking the lithium some time ago. Does anyone know if your hairloss is permanent from lithium? I stopped taking it almost 6 months ago.
Posted by Larry Hoover on November 28, 2002, at 17:05:28
In reply to could seroquel or effexor be causing my hairloss?, posted by shellyvv on November 28, 2002, at 16:51:58
> I have been taking effexor for about 4 years and seroquel for almost a year. I at one time took lithium for less than 6 months my hair is falling out horribly I am curious if seroquel or effexor could be causing my hairloss as I stopped taking the lithium some time ago. Does anyone know if your hairloss is permanent from lithium? I stopped taking it almost 6 months ago.
Both seroquel and effexor have been associated with hair loss, but that could be a coincidence, or the result of mineral deficiencies caused by or associated with the drugs. Most people recommend trying zinc supplements (50 mg/day chelated zinc or citrate ought to do it), and often selenium is mentioned, too (200 mcg/day).
One sign of zinc deficiency is altered or diminished senses of taste and smell. The receptors which are responsible for those senses require zinc for their structure. Little white marks on your finger nails are another sign.
If it's the minerals, you can expect hair to grow back in stronger after only a few weeks, but it'll take months for the density to come back up.
Posted by Joel Maxuel on November 28, 2002, at 18:00:45
In reply to could seroquel or effexor be causing my hairloss?, posted by shellyvv on November 28, 2002, at 16:51:58
This has me worried cause i'm on effexor. I want my hair to turn grey, not lose it. but i probablyu have enough copper in my diet. Yeah I'm taking zinc, so theres probably not too much for me to worry about.
--
Joel Maxuel
ShamelessPlug(http://www.maxuel.ca);
Posted by Michael D on November 28, 2002, at 18:20:36
In reply to Re: could seroquel or effexor be causing my hairloss?, posted by Joel Maxuel on November 28, 2002, at 18:00:45
I started loosing my hair, on my legs and chest, last year when I had started Effexor XR.
I thought it was the Effexor and stopped immediately, and my hair started growing back. Again this year, I started loosing my hair. This time I wasn't on any medication.
I've come to the conclusion that both times it was a combination of anxiety and the time of the year. My psychiatrist agreed that it was probably from anxiety and not the medication.
Effexor increased my anxiety.
I also 'crash' every October-November - Seasonal affective Dissorder - and that might explain I noticed it, both times, in November.
I now take supplements that I got from the Health Store. They're called LifeTime Supreme Vital Hair.
You might want to try taking a multi-vitamin, and getting off the SSRIs or adding an anti-anxiety med.
Michael Dewolf
Posted by IsoM on November 29, 2002, at 0:10:11
In reply to Re: could seroquel or effexor be causing my hairloss?, posted by Larry Hoover on November 28, 2002, at 17:05:28
Larry, most people who have white flecks on their fingernails get it from minor trauma to their nails, not zinc deficiency. Too many people look at their nails, see white flecks & assume they need more zinc. When a person uses their hands a lot & bump the ends of their fingers against things, they'll often get white flecks.
I'd like to caution people to be aware that while some zinc supplementation is good (if their diet's on the low side), too much isn't. Higher levels of zinc can interfere with the absorption of other minerals like magnesium, calcium, & even iron. Sucking zinc lozenges for colds gives far more than any one needs & conversely, too much zinc can weaken our immune system.
I think 50 mg/day is the upper limit & 30 mg would be better. Don't get me wrong - zinc IS important but a deficiency is only one possible cause for white spots on nails & 50 mg is a little more than needed. After all, the RDA is only 15 mg, maybe a little low. It's not a nutrient like B vitamins that are water-soluble but too much zinc can unknowingly contribute to a magnesium definciency instead.
Posted by Larry Hoover on November 29, 2002, at 9:16:32
In reply to Re: white spots on nails » Larry Hoover, posted by IsoM on November 29, 2002, at 0:10:11
> Larry, most people who have white flecks on their fingernails get it from minor trauma to their nails, not zinc deficiency. Too many people look at their nails, see white flecks & assume they need more zinc. When a person uses their hands a lot & bump the ends of their fingers against things, they'll often get white flecks.
I appreciate the feedback, but I must state that my own personal experience has been that I had numerous white flecks all my life until I started supplementing zinc. I use my hands quite physically, and I no longer have any white flecks.
> I'd like to caution people to be aware that while some zinc supplementation is good (if their diet's on the low side), too much isn't. Higher levels of zinc can interfere with the absorption of other minerals like magnesium, calcium, & even iron. Sucking zinc lozenges for colds gives far more than any one needs & conversely, too much zinc can weaken our immune system.
>
> I think 50 mg/day is the upper limit & 30 mg would be better. Don't get me wrong - zinc IS important but a deficiency is only one possible cause for white spots on nails & 50 mg is a little more than needed. After all, the RDA is only 15 mg, maybe a little low. It's not a nutrient like B vitamins that are water-soluble but too much zinc can unknowingly contribute to a magnesium definciency instead.I will look into the zinc-magnesium interaction more fully. Thanks.
Posted by turalizz on November 29, 2002, at 10:06:28
In reply to Re: white spots on nails, posted by Larry Hoover on November 29, 2002, at 9:16:32
> I appreciate the feedback, but I must state that my own personal experience has been that I had numerous white flecks all my life until I started supplementing zinc. I use my hands quite physically, and I no longer have any white flecks.
Same here. My white spots are gone after I started taking 5 mg zinc in my multi-mineral supplement.
Too much zinc causes depletion of copper. I've read of a case where the patient self-administered very high (800-1000mg/day) doses of zinc for one year, and the tests revealed a copper deficiency. (You can find the abstract on medline)>
> I will look into the zinc-magnesium interaction more fully. Thanks.
Larry, actually I could use some information about zinc too. I am taking 100 mg/day right now (and no supplementary copper) for testosterone increasing purposes, and having very good results.Is this dose safe as it is? Should I just add some copper (and soething else maybe?) or just decrease the dose?
take care,
cem
Posted by Larry Hoover on November 29, 2002, at 11:32:37
In reply to Re: white spots on nails » Larry Hoover, posted by IsoM on November 29, 2002, at 0:10:11
> I'd like to caution people to be aware that while some zinc supplementation is good (if their diet's on the low side), too much isn't. Higher levels of zinc can interfere with the absorption of other minerals like magnesium, calcium, & even iron. Sucking zinc lozenges for colds gives far more than any one needs & conversely, too much zinc can weaken our immune system.
>
> I think 50 mg/day is the upper limit & 30 mg would be better. Don't get me wrong - zinc IS important but a deficiency is only one possible cause for white spots on nails & 50 mg is a little more than needed. After all, the RDA is only 15 mg, maybe a little low. It's not a nutrient like B vitamins that are water-soluble but too much zinc can unknowingly contribute to a magnesium definciency instead.Thanks for keeping my recommendations in line. I've long intuited a mineral malabsorption problem in myself, and perhaps I forget that others may not have a need for enhanced intake to counter reduced uptake. I'll try to be more careful in future.
Here's a pretty good review on zinc:
http://www.orst.edu/dept/lpi/infocenter/minerals/zinc/zinc.html
Posted by IsoM on November 29, 2002, at 12:03:26
In reply to Re: white spots on nails » Larry Hoover, posted by turalizz on November 29, 2002, at 10:06:28
Turalizz, can you get a blood check where you live to see what your mineral levels are? If not, I'd increase your calcium & magnesium intake to make sure you don't get deficient in those two. If you eat meat or other iron rich foods, you'll probably have enough iron along with copper. Most iron rich foods also have high amounts of copper, the two minerals are generally found together. Men need to be careful they don't get too much iron as iron-storage problems are more common in men usually.
Posted by IsoM on November 29, 2002, at 12:10:04
In reply to Re: white spots on nails, posted by Larry Hoover on November 29, 2002, at 9:16:32
Interesting, Larry, about your white spots & zinc. I don't get those spots but then maybe my zinc intake is fine & I use my hands a lot & am notoriously klutzy, always banging my hands. Perhaps, minor trauma causes white spots mostly in people who are border-line deficient in zinc then & dermatologists just have assumed it's normal.
It can be tricky when people supplement their diets with extra vitamins & minerals. I feel that a little is generally better than too much but that a good, varied diet is an absolute must. That way, nutrients enter our system in ways that are synergist with each other. I do take more vitamin D than is recommended but far under what's considered toxic. Especially lately, there's been so much more info on the benefits of vitamin D with bone density, immunity, & general health. Maybe I can't give the full credit to my iron-clad immune system to soy only. :)
I never get colds, flus, no allergies, nothing - just crappy shoulder joints & a screwed up neurosystem. Ahh, lots of good old DDT when I was growing up.
Posted by oracle on November 29, 2002, at 18:56:25
In reply to Re: white spots on nails » Larry Hoover, posted by IsoM on November 29, 2002, at 12:10:04
the problem I have with supplementation with the mins, which are very toxic, is how do you really know what you are already getting from food ?
Unless you get a blood test, you really do not know.
Zinc is a metal and all metals are toxic and deadly if taken too much.For me, spots are not enough for a test. If I have rickets, that would be another issue.
Posted by IsoM on November 29, 2002, at 19:30:49
In reply to Re: white spots on nails, posted by oracle on November 29, 2002, at 18:56:25
Oracle, the metals used in our body (like zinc, magnesium, copper, iron, cobalt, calcium, etc) are vital for life. To say that they're metals & all metals are toxic if too much is taken is true but not really accurate. So is too much water, or almost anything else. That's why I think a small amount of supplementation is safe, probably safer than the deficient diet most people eat. Most minerals are part of coenzymes & if we're low in them, metabolic processes don't run as well as should.
Even organically grown foods can be deficient in many minerals depending on where they're grown & how long the soil has been built up using compost & organic fertilizers. Few of us have the luxury of being able to buy or grow our foods where we'd like to. I know I desperately miss the huge vegetable garden I used to have when I had my own place. I literally grew broccoli with heads more than a foot wide & could haul off peppers, tomatoes, eggplants, cukes, & much more in 20 gallon buckets. I had more than enough for winter storage & lots to give neighbours & friends. And NO poisons at all.
But produce tested now, even to a degree, organic produce, is often much lower in nutrients than years past. If you ever see broccoli in stores with a darker hollow centre to the stem, that's a boron deficiency most times, but then too much boron in the soil is also bad for plants. If the soil is low in boron, what else is missing from it? I know by certain signs when I'm not getting enough magnesium, even though I do eat magnesium-rich foods.
Still, in essense, I agree with you. Foods are the best way to get what we need & any supplementation should just be to augment what we're low on in foods.
Posted by Larry Hoover on December 1, 2002, at 11:32:21
In reply to Re: white spots on nails, posted by oracle on November 29, 2002, at 18:56:25
> the problem I have with supplementation with the mins, which are very toxic, is how do you really know what you are already getting from food ?
> Unless you get a blood test, you really do not know.
> Zinc is a metal and all metals are toxic and deadly if taken too much.
>
> For me, spots are not enough for a test. If I have rickets, that would be another issue.I totally agree that white spots on the nails are insufficient to diagnose a zinc deficiency. There are a number of symptoms of functional zinc deficiency, and the deficiency itself is really quite common (according to Medline).
My own symptoms are deficiencies of smell and taste, prostate irritation, and the white spots. I know when my body needs more zinc. As I've frequently expressed, doing trials of supplements, one at a time, will be informative in ways that supplementing a number of nutrients simultaneously will not. It takes patience to learn how your own body works.
Posted by utopizen on December 1, 2002, at 12:14:06
In reply to Re: white spots on nails » Larry Hoover, posted by IsoM on November 29, 2002, at 12:10:04
> It can be tricky when people supplement their diets with extra vitamins & minerals.
>I wouldn't take specific vitamins unless your doctor tells you have deficiencies in them already (rather than taking them because you heard it is healthy... ever think you might already get a sufficient amount?)
I've always been healthy, not sick for 5 years, and that was just during a week with a kid in my team who gave something to everyone...
I'm vegan, and have been lucky enough to have acne, because of that I took Accutane, which required 5 straight months of extensive blood tests, where I could track things like anemia, cholesterol, etc. I have a cholesterol of 129, which guarantees I will never have a heart attack (no reported cases under 150, ever).
So I take an Iron (Feosol, I'm a sucker for SK&B's OTC brand), Vitamin E (for skin, poor circulation... although skin hasn't been proven, it also hasn't been disproven) Vitamin C for whenever my throat is feeling warm (for some reason that's the worst I get sickness-wise) and a B-100 complex for my nerves, and because I'm vegan.
I wouldn't suggest anyone take specific vitamins unless they have had blood testing on their nutrients and report a deficiency. Multi-days are fine, and so is nothing at all, provided one has a balanced diet and eats regularly.
Of course eating is hard for me, with H. Pylori in my stomach still. But I finally got this diagnosed, and in a few more days will get treatment for it... I'll miss this dull, gnawing pain someday. Apparently 1 out of 10 people get it. I've had it for years but never mentioned to my doctor my problem, and I just happened to find a quack who felt like testing my blood for everything he could. Sometimes quacks are all right, you know... =)
Posted by utopizen on December 1, 2002, at 12:17:08
In reply to Re: white spots on nails, posted by Larry Hoover on December 1, 2002, at 11:32:21
>>
ms are deficiencies of smell and taste, prostate irritation, and the white spots. I know when my body needs more zinc. As I've frequently expressed, doing trials of supplements, one at a time, will be informative in ways that supplementing a number of nutrients simultaneously will not. It takes patience to learn how your own body works.
> >I don't think everyone should get nutrient blood tests during their physicals (they don't, which saves lotso f $) but if you think you have a problem it's much better to get one and be sure. No sense in trial and error when over-dosing a nutrient is impossible to catch by listening to your body... and most people are sufficent in most vitamins... chances are if you have any deficiency, it's only one or two minerals, not a whole bunch.
Posted by Joel Maxuel on December 1, 2002, at 20:01:39
In reply to Re: white spots on nails » Larry Hoover, posted by IsoM on November 29, 2002, at 0:10:11
Makes ya wonder why they put zinc in with cacium-magnesium supplements.
--
Joel Maxuel
ShamelessPlug(http://www.maxuel.ca);
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