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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by mair on October 29, 2002, at 21:21:39
I'm not sure this belongs here or on PPB.
My pdoc wants me to try using a light box this winter. Since I can't see just sitting in front of one, I've been looking at light boxes that operate as desk lamps. Maybe you're not as close, but you're exposed for a lot longer.
Has anyone had any experience with desk lamp boxes? Any info or opinions would be much appreciated.
Mair
Posted by Pfinstegg on October 29, 2002, at 23:26:09
In reply to Question about light boxes, posted by mair on October 29, 2002, at 21:21:39
I don't have first-hand experience, but have read that you can get one in the form of a light visor, so that you can wear it for an hour in the morning while you are doing other stuff.
Pfinstegg
Posted by IsoM on October 30, 2002, at 1:52:37
In reply to Question about light boxes, posted by mair on October 29, 2002, at 21:21:39
Mair, how much time do you sit at the computer? At least half-hour? Can you do it in the morning? How about any paperwork or such where you can put the light box on the top of the hutch of your computer desk or something similar?I've got one that's quite plain looking but gives more light than most. It doesn't say so on the web site but I've read reviews from other sources & the SADelite that I have is considered the cheapest but also one of the best. Here's the site:
http://www.northernlight-tech.com/eng/products.htmThe arm is movable so you can bend it way down or trun the light up towards you to adjust as you'd like. Even for close work, I love the bright light it gives to sharpen detail. The bulb has lasted for 3 winters now without replacing (only 85 watts) & I use it a lot. When I'm not using it myself, I turn it on when it gets dark & leave it on till I go to bed. My cats love to sleep under the light - artificial sunlight, & the gentle warmth (the bulb doesn't get hot, just warm) is much appreciated by one very old kitty I have.
Posted by mair on October 30, 2002, at 12:06:09
In reply to Re: Question about light boxes » mair, posted by IsoM on October 30, 2002, at 1:52:37
Thanks IsoM, I'll check out the site.
What I had in mind was for the desk in my office. I'm basically there all day, most days, although there's alot of shifting around from desk to computer table (a side extension to the desk) and the phone on the computer table and of course I'm up and down alot, so I probably don't sit there at the same distance from a lamp for any continuous period in excess of 20-30 minutes.
I would just envision having the light on all the time.Do you see a problem with this?
Thanks
Mair
Posted by IsoM on October 30, 2002, at 14:36:53
In reply to Re: Question about light boxes » IsoM, posted by mair on October 30, 2002, at 12:06:09
No problem at all. In fact, it sounds ideal - better than enforced inactivity in front of it for 20-30 minutes evry morning. Your way sounds more natural - kind of like being relatively active all day is better than 20-30 minutes intense activity once a day. I suspect you'll get more benefits from your plan.
I have another friend who has definite SAD & eb=very winter, she goes waaay down. Last years's summer, she spent a lot more time outside than she normally would. She wondered if there was a correlation between a MUCH milder spell of SAD the following winter & that it also started much later in the year for her.
It makes me wonder if you can't "store" up your sunlight quota for the darker period of the year. Years ago, doctors would say that there was just NO way to catch up on lost sleep. If you missed sleep during the week nights, you couldn't catch up by sleeping more on weekends. I remember thinking that it sure wasn't true for me & thought I might be unusual. But now, that view is changed & they admit one can catch up on missed sleep. Perhaps there's something to the extra sunlight hours garnered during summer helping through long, dark winters.
If the brightness of the lamp isn't too much for you, when you pause to think or when talking on the phone, you may want to lean forward a little & stare into the light source. The light isn't so bright that it does damage (I checked it out) & it's UV blocked. All a way of intensifying the treatment. Some of us need LOTS & LOTS of light to feel good.
Posted by Fenny3 on October 30, 2002, at 19:31:32
In reply to Question about light boxes, posted by mair on October 29, 2002, at 21:21:39
I have full spectrum fluorescent lights in my kitchen fixture. At first they looked a little pink, but now they seem normal. My dr. recommended them as they are much cheaper than a lamp or a visor.
Fenny
Posted by Leor on October 31, 2002, at 11:55:32
In reply to Re: Question about light boxes » mair, posted by IsoM on October 30, 2002, at 1:52:37
My p-doc (who has a fair amount of experience treating people with S.A.D.) told me that recent studies indicate that full spectrum light therapy appears to help only 30% of those who use it.
But because it is risk free I am trying it. At the very least, the light produces a nice placebo affect,
by relaxing my mood as I start out my day. The benefit of that is not to be underestimated!I have heard by word of mouth that a recent study drew a parallel between vitamin D consumption and seasonal affective disorder. Does anyone have info. about this (references or URLs would be helpful).
Best,
Leor
Posted by Ritch on October 31, 2002, at 12:20:14
In reply to Re: Question about light boxes, posted by Leor on October 31, 2002, at 11:55:32
> My p-doc (who has a fair amount of experience treating people with S.A.D.) told me that recent studies indicate that full spectrum light therapy appears to help only 30% of those who use it.
> But because it is risk free I am trying it. At the very least, the light produces a nice placebo affect,
> by relaxing my mood as I start out my day. The benefit of that is not to be underestimated!
>
> I have heard by word of mouth that a recent study drew a parallel between vitamin D consumption and seasonal affective disorder. Does anyone have info. about this (references or URLs would be helpful).
>
> Best,
>
> Leorhttp://www.dr-bob.org/babble/19990726/msgs/9870.html
Posted by IsoM on October 31, 2002, at 14:19:32
In reply to Re: Question about light boxes » Leor, posted by Ritch on October 31, 2002, at 12:20:14
Don't get me wrong - it's quite possible that an increase in vitamin D can help with SAD, but I wonder. The study done was so small & brief. Because I'm a small-boned woman who has nursed 3 babies for lengthy periods of time & am mid-menopausal, I take supplemental vitamin D. The standard recommended daily requirement is just 400 IU but recent studies suggest it may be too low. Because other foods may have vitamin D added (like milk & butter) & it's a fat-soluble vitamin that's stored in the liver, doctors are reluctant to suggest higher amounts. But there's proof that higher doses are beneficial for more than just maintaining bone density. It's now known that vitamin D also plays a role in strengthening the immune system by stimulating immunogenic & antitumour activity.
I take 1000 IU daily & have for many years. Toxicity isn't a problem if the amount taken isn't too high.
"Vitamin D 1000 µg (40,000 IU)/day produces toxicity within 1 to 4 mo in infants, and as little as 75 µg (3000 IU)/day can produce toxicity over years. Toxic effects have occurred in adults receiving 2500 µg (100,000 IU)/day for several months." (from Merck Manual, Sec. 1, Chap. 3) This link gives info on vitamin D in easy to undestand wording:
http://www.gnc.com/health_notes/Supp/Vitamin_D.htmBut despite my intake, I still get SAD every winter. Maybe it would be much worse without vitamin D but I still question that study about D & SAD.
Posted by Ritch on October 31, 2002, at 22:35:16
In reply to Vitamin D intake and SAD, posted by IsoM on October 31, 2002, at 14:19:32
> Don't get me wrong - it's quite possible that an increase in vitamin D can help with SAD, but I wonder. The study done was so small & brief. Because I'm a small-boned woman who has nursed 3 babies for lengthy periods of time & am mid-menopausal, I take supplemental vitamin D. The standard recommended daily requirement is just 400 IU but recent studies suggest it may be too low. Because other foods may have vitamin D added (like milk & butter) & it's a fat-soluble vitamin that's stored in the liver, doctors are reluctant to suggest higher amounts. But there's proof that higher doses are beneficial for more than just maintaining bone density. It's now known that vitamin D also plays a role in strengthening the immune system by stimulating immunogenic & antitumour activity.
>
> I take 1000 IU daily & have for many years. Toxicity isn't a problem if the amount taken isn't too high.
> "Vitamin D 1000 µg (40,000 IU)/day produces toxicity within 1 to 4 mo in infants, and as little as 75 µg (3000 IU)/day can produce toxicity over years. Toxic effects have occurred in adults receiving 2500 µg (100,000 IU)/day for several months." (from Merck Manual, Sec. 1, Chap. 3) This link gives info on vitamin D in easy to undestand wording:
> http://www.gnc.com/health_notes/Supp/Vitamin_D.htm
>
> But despite my intake, I still get SAD every winter. Maybe it would be much worse without vitamin D but I still question that study about D & SAD.
>IsoM, It might be possible based on the link you gave to add a "standard-dose" (100%RDA) supplement if you are taking thyroid hormone for bipolar or depression and you may be concerned with bone density problems. What do you think?
Mitch
Posted by IsoM on November 1, 2002, at 0:27:39
In reply to Re: Vitamin D intake and SAD » IsoM, posted by Ritch on October 31, 2002, at 22:35:16
Hi Mitch. No I'm not overly concerned with bone density but I'm being aware 'cause many women lose bone mass as they get older & I want to be safe.
I drank lots of milk as a child & teenager so I probably have built good bone density when young, when it's really important. I also do a fair amount of weight bearing activity. My intake of vitamins A through E are good, either through food or supplements. Same with minerals, except I should add selenium. Same with essential fatty acids. I'm one of those "weird" people that love the taste of healthy foods & dislike the taste of junk foods. See my post on what I consider 'comfort food' - http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20021022/msgs/31666.html
Thanks for the suggestion though. I appreciate the thought.
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