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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Disillusioned on September 18, 2002, at 3:27:12
This is total bullshit!
My psyciatrist has me on Zoloft and Clonopezam. Both of these make me feel sick. When I need the clonopezam, I know it. I can feel the physiological effects. When I need the zoloft, hell I dunno when I need it! I feel emotionally crummy all the time. I desperately want off the clonopezam! I am addicted! More than likely, I need to taper off on the Zoloft too! But, recently I had a very severe depression episode, and I agreed to try effexor. My doc had been wanting me to try it for some time. I kept saying no. Now, thanks to you all, I know it's not for me! I DO NOT WANT TO BE ADDICTED TO ANY DRUG, PRESCRIBED OR ILLEGAL!
THia is it! I've had it! These 'medicines' just make me feel terrible, and make me need more. They are DANGEROUS!
Now, I've used marijuana before, and chronically. I can stop taking it with no side effects! NONE! ZERO! NADA! ZILCH! And you know what? Marijuana doesn't make me feel bad! it make me euphoric! I don't suffer from physiological symptoms when I take it or stop taking it. So why the hell am I taking a KNOWN dangerous drug, when 'they' haven't proven anything about marijuanna being dangerous.
One reason Marijuana is illegal because it is said to be a gateway drug. But hell, some of these prescription drugs require you to take other drugs to get off them, then other drugs to get off of those!
I can truthfully say to you, marijuanna has no physiological symptoms if you stop taking it COLD TURKEY! None of the prescribed drugs can claim that! Not one!
It is claimed that marijuana affects your short term memory. Look at any of these psyochropics! They affect your short term memory too.
Look at the warnings on many of the anti-depressants. You'll see 'may cause depression'! OMG! What is this poison the doctors are prescribing?
I'm taking matters into my own hands. I'm sick of this foolishness! All the doctors come from the same academy: Science! They can't see the forest for the trees! They need test after test and still can't find a solution. Well, damnit, I've found one, and if I "might have to take this the rest of your life", then I'm going to something that really helps!BEWARE! BE AFRAID! BE VERY AFRAID! "Marijuana has a high potential to be abused!" So do patients, by doctors that are locked in a mindset that is going nowhere fast! The drugs they prescribe can actually kill you if you decide to abuse them! Have you ever attempted suicide, or had a suicide plan? I'll bet 10 to 1 that that attempt or plan including using the pills the doctors prescribed you.
I'm outta this 'scientific' scene! Science is lost when it comes to dealing with emotional disorders! The scientists know NUTHING, and are fools for even trying. They have a solution right before their eyes, but it isn't acceptable becuase the government says it isn't.
Yeah, I may find myself in a hypnotic stupor thanks to marijuana, but I can't take the physical discomforts that come with these scientists' 'medicines'.
Thanks for input. All I see here are people messed up on drugs! I don't see one post that says "I'm well again!". Not one!
Posted by Phil on September 18, 2002, at 6:09:23
In reply to THANKS for the warning!, posted by Disillusioned on September 18, 2002, at 3:27:12
I'm in remission, don't think depression will ever be totally exorcized.
Some people here will, but I have no issue w/ pot.
We've basically got in growing wild and they legislate it? Don't get me started.
If you feel the depression graying down your universe, try a new doc. Or, alternative methods. Depression is real and sometimes the 'right' drugs can really save you.
This board is for treatment resistant people who have had a lot of difficulties getting drugs that will work.
Luckily, there are people out there that get well very easily with, you know, 10 mg Prozac. Drives me nuts.
Me, I just drive..35!!!!!
Posted by Eddie Sylvano on September 18, 2002, at 9:58:15
In reply to THANKS for the warning!, posted by Disillusioned on September 18, 2002, at 3:27:12
> I'm outta this 'scientific' scene! Science is lost when it comes to dealing with emotional disorders! The scientists know NUTHING, and are fools for even trying. They have a solution right before their eyes, but it isn't acceptable becuase the government says it isn't.
I'm alarmed by the growing backlash in (the United States, anyways) against science. Science isn't a cult with an agenda. It isn't owned or controlled by anyone or any group. It's just a method of obtaining knowledge that is devised in a way that rigorously culls incorrect ideas of causation. It's very egalitarian, and is largely responsible for the many advances that society has made since its growing utilization began hundreds of years ago.
As human beings, we're not wired to be scientific, so it's understandable that people worry about vaccines causing autism or cell phones causing cancer. We're also living in a time in which modren advances have been the norm for the total of our lifetimes. We don't know what it's like to die at 30 from tuberculosis, or have a barber exsanguinate us to balance our humours.
I will grant that medicine isn't in as good a shape as it could be, which I blame largely on the quality of physicians. It's remarkable to me that a person can be ardent enough to graduate medical school, but still be a relatively useless diagnostician. Much of the medcial community has become little more than mediocre go-betweens for pharmaceutical companies. It's a backward way to do things, and it needs to change. The body, and it's myriad interactions, are so complex that I forsee a future where exponentially increasing information drives doctors to become operators of computers which can more completely and accurately utilize that information in diagnostic algorithms.
Still, that's not a condemnation of science. It's more a restatement of the fact that people don't usually make good scientists.
As for the marijuana, a competent medical community would recognize the benefits and mechanisms behind its use, instead of fobbing it off because of an ingrained bias. As you mentioned, its pharmacologic profile is typically superior to most FDA approved medications. The problem isn't science in general; it's indeed a lack of good science.
Posted by Disillusioned on September 18, 2002, at 11:58:02
In reply to Re: THANKS for the warning!, posted by Eddie Sylvano on September 18, 2002, at 9:58:15
Well said. I cannot agree with you more. And what I have decided is my decision and should not be interpreted as a recommendation for others. But you name it, I've tried. From MAO inhhibitors to SSRI's. The list is too long to remember all the names. They do not work for me. My current medications have me just as immobilized as I will be when I'm 'high' 12-16 hours a day.
But you wrote "[science] is largely responsible for the many advances that society has made since its growing utilization began hundreds of years ago." Yeah? Name one! The twentieth century has been the bloodiest century in history. We eat processed food. We drive automobiles that pollute the air. We languish in front of the Moron Tube, TV, and accept any of the propoganda fed to us. I don't believe that we've advanced at all. Don't confuse change with advancement. Change is inevitable, but growth is optional, and our society is not about growth, it's about money! More for the rich and less scrupulous, and less for those who just want a decent life. It's a world economy! Business offers 'competitive' wages. Who are you competing with? Third world workers who will work for less? As you grow older, workers who are younger and less expensive? Or, in this information age that offers the wonderful Internet, the countless volunteers who offer technical help for free? Microsoft, one of the largest multi-million dollar companies, hands out MVP awards to volunteers who help others with technical info. But those same MVPs are asking for contributions to keep their websites up because Microsoft isn't willing to compensate them with cash.
I'm not depressed, I'm disillusioned. You have the right to assemble, but only with a permit, and it better not be in Waco, TX. You have the right to bear arms, but not arms that are equal to the arsenal of the National Guard and army. And if you do have such arms, you're a terrorist! You have the right to remain silent, but only after you're arrested. Until then, you're guilty of 'not cooperating'. You have the right to freedom of religion, as long as it's not an upstart religion which is commonly labled a cult with all the bad connotations that go with it. You have the right to privacy, but you gotta piss in a bottle to get a job! Gimme a break.
Sixty years ago, running numbers was an illegal activity run by the mafia. Now it's embraced by the federal government. Cigarettes were fashionable and fairly taxed. Not any more! Now the feds take 60% of a price of cigarettes in their "effort to cleanse society" of this addictive substance, and they keep raising the taxes because they need funding! None of that money goes into quit smoking programs. The goverment keeps raising the taxes because as Alan Greenspan testified, "people who are addicted will pay anything."
Thirty years ago, when I entered the workforce, I could find no work better than working in a car wash. I was making close to $2 an hour. My wife and I bought a brand new car and paid $2700 for it. Now, an equivalent car costs $27,000, ten times as much, but car washworkers aren't making ten times as much.
I finally woke up and went to college. Not long after graduating, I was making $50,000 a year. Then, suddenly, out of the blue, I suffered a traumatic brain injury. My Social Security 'award' is less than 1/4 of my previous income, and my meds are not paid for by Medicare. My cost of living adjustimet went up 3.5 % this year, but my Medicare part B insurance went up 10%. The Zoloft costs me over $100 per month, and the insurance won't pay for it! I'm locked in my house not only by my disease, but also by lack of finances.
I'm remitting this label. I'm not 'depressed'. I'm disillusioned! This 'greatest nation in the world' isn't very great, and surely isn't willing to share it's great wealth. It isn't helping me, an American, but it's over in Pakistan, and soon Iraq, to among other things, help the culturally afflicted women. Just like we helped the Serbs get rid of Milosevic, by bombing their factories and their standard of living.
I get my meds and 'therapy' from county mental health. They just got themselves a new $6 million building, but they have no money or resources to provide competent one on one care. I've been in two county mental health hospitals in two different states. These are nothing but jails! They are surrounded by high fences and barbed wire. Lunch consists of one piece of balogna between two slices of white bread. And the treatment! Wow! There is no groups, no RET or Cognitive therapy. You get to see your doc for 15 mins once per week. The rest of the time is babysitting by the TV.
Call me a rebel. Call me disillusioned. Call me alienated. Call me a criminal. Call me a pot head. Call me a terrorist! Call me a realist!! But don't call me depressed. I won't be victimized by that word again.
p.s. Is a terrorist someone that is spreading terror? Is G.W. spreading terror? Wouldthe US allow the Pakistanis to occupy our country to look for a terrorist named Osama Bin G.W.? You do the math! I'd rather get stoned.
Posted by Eddie Sylvano on September 18, 2002, at 15:07:00
In reply to Re: THANKS for the warning!, posted by Disillusioned on September 18, 2002, at 11:58:02
>Yeah? Name one! The twentieth century has been the bloodiest century in history. We eat processed food. We drive automobiles that pollute the air. We languish in front of the Moron Tube, TV, and accept any of the propoganda fed to us. I don't believe that we've advanced at all.
-----------Science is neutral, but the people applying it aren't. A rock, gun, and nerve gas can all kill. What we've got are bad motivations. When television was first invented, a lot of scientists envisioned it being a medium for real education, conveying more information than books, and in a more engaging way. What they didn't realize is that just because they thought that way, other people didn't. It's the responsibility of the individual to better themselves.
>society is not about growth, it's about money! More for the rich and less scrupulous, and less for those who just want a decent life. It's a world economy! Business offers 'competitive' wages. Who are you competing with? Third world workers who will work for less?
-------------I basically agree with you here. It alarms me that our economy is based on the notion of perpetual growth (which, mathematically, can't be sustained), and all the practices this method requires (disposability, artificially induced consumption, inflation). The problem is that there isn't a viable alternative, and by viable, I mean something that the majority of people will comply with. The state of affairs is a result, once again, of the innate motivations of people. No one is controlling it. It's an emergent system derived from each person's relative desire to have more (be superior to) than others. Every dollar spent is a vote in an election of economic ideas.
> I'm not depressed, I'm disillusioned. You have the right to assemble, but only with a permit, and it better not be in Waco, TX. You have the right to bear arms, but not arms that are equal
--------That's a whole philosophical quagmire that I can't address with any usefulness.
>You have the right to privacy, but you gotta piss in a bottle to get a job! Gimme a break.
----------Private organizations shouldn't have the right to screen their voluntary employees in whatever way they feel is useful? I agree that drug use isn't a solid indicator of employee utility, but neither are GPA or appearance, yet they are regularly applied.
>goverment keeps raising the taxes because as Alan Greenspan testified, "people who are addicted will pay anything."
------------Actuarial tables suggest that cigarette usage costs the government (in medicare) more than the tax they collect on them, so it makes some sense to me. Move closer to an Indian reservation, or smoke less, I guess (and yes, I smoke too).
>Now, an equivalent car costs $27,000, ten times as much, but car washworkers aren't making ten times as much.
--------------Economists would argue that although prices of certain goods relative to median income may rise, the rise should be expected, due to the increasing *quality* of goods (known as Quality Bias). Cars 30 years ago were death-traps that got poor mileage, had no power steering, cd players, anti-lock brakes, etc. Expectations have risen, even if wages haven't.
>The Zoloft costs me over $100 per month, and the insurance won't pay for it! I'm locked in my house not only by my disease, but also by lack of finances.
-------------Our current health insurance system *is* pretty retarded (short-sighted). Medical care is a national *need*, just like utilities or sanitation, and would be best addressed collectively. For that matter, drug prices might not be so high if the cost of the approval processes and potential litigation weren't such hamstrings.
>It isn't helping me, an American, but it's over in Pakistan, and soon Iraq, to among other things, help the culturally afflicted women.
-----------People will shit their pants if we're attacked again, in greater magnitude, and nothing was done to prevent it. I'm surprised how few people consider the potential of a nuclear device being detonated in Manhattan as possible. People with collective means and ample motivation are working for it right now.
> I get my meds and 'therapy' from county mental health. They just got themselves a new $6 million building, but they have no money or resources to provide competent one on one care. I've been in
------------It's ridiculous how both the criminal justice system and the mental health system operate, but it's actually what people seem to want. Mental health is still viewed as a personal weakness by a public that still thinks schizophrenia means "he thinks he's 5 different people!"
>You do the math! I'd rather get stoned.I'll join you there ;)
Posted by utopizen on September 18, 2002, at 16:00:22
In reply to Re: THANKS for the warning!, posted by Eddie Sylvano on September 18, 2002, at 15:07:00
> >You do the math! I'd rather get stoned.
>
> I'll join you there ;)Am I the *only* one on this list who gets paranoid on pot?
Posted by Phil on September 18, 2002, at 18:10:55
In reply to Re: THANKS for the warning!, posted by utopizen on September 18, 2002, at 16:00:22
I'll be over in 20 minutes, disallusioned. 8 ^ D
Posted by catmint on September 18, 2002, at 18:38:59
In reply to THANKS for the warning!, posted by Disillusioned on September 18, 2002, at 3:27:12
Dissilusioned,
If the meds make you feel terrible, there are other options for depression that work. Believe me, I know a lot about supplements if your interested.
I wish I could smoke pot successfully, but it makes me manic and anxious. If it works for you, great!
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 18, 2002, at 20:02:09
In reply to Re: THANKS for the warning!, posted by Eddie Sylvano on September 18, 2002, at 15:07:00
> Science is neutral, but the people applying it aren't...
Discussion about science in general is fine, but I'd like it to take place at Psycho-Social-Babble, thanks.
Bob
PS: And follow-ups regarding posting policies to be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration.
This is the end of the thread.
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