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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Peter on August 20, 2002, at 23:48:32
Hi all:
I read among our posts and also throughout the web that the amino acid l-tyrosine helps maintain healthy levels of dopamine and NE, and could thus have anti-tolerance affects on adderall. So I went out and bought TwinLab 500mg capsules. Upon surfing the web later in the day, I found articles stating that l-tyrosine interacts negatively with SSRI's, and I take zoloft. Does anyone know about this? If it's safe to take w/SSRI and, for that matter, if it's really positively synergistic with amphetamine?
Posted by oracle on August 21, 2002, at 12:53:29
In reply to L-tyrosine for stim-induced dopamine depletion, posted by Peter on August 20, 2002, at 23:48:32
Nope. Stims don't deplete dopamine, and adding excess L-tyrosine does not cause more dopamine to be made.
Posted by jerrympls on August 21, 2002, at 18:49:39
In reply to Re: L-tyrosine for stim-induced dopamine depletion, posted by oracle on August 21, 2002, at 12:53:29
> Nope. Stims don't deplete dopamine, and adding excess L-tyrosine does not cause more dopamine to be made.
They don't? I've had many pdocs tell me that stimulants cause receptor burn out and drain the supply of dopamine, etc. Are those facts untrue? I wouldn't be suprised as the docs who have told me this were those "I'm not going to prescribe stimulants or anything addicted because I'll get my license revoked...blah blah blah."
What does deplete dopamine?
Posted by oracle on August 22, 2002, at 11:42:43
In reply to Re: L-tyrosine for stim-induced dopamine depletion » oracle, posted by jerrympls on August 21, 2002, at 18:49:39
> They don't? I've had many pdocs tell me that stimulants cause receptor burn out and drain the supply of dopamine, etc. Are those facts untrue? I wouldn't be suprised as the docs who have told me this were those "I'm not going to prescribe stimulants or anything addicted because I'll get my license revoked...blah blah blah."
However many pdoc say just to oppsite. I have only heard this in persons who abuse amphetamine
for years at very high doses.
>
> What does deplete dopamine?It is helpful to stop using the work "deplete"
in assoc with NT's. Parkinsons kills off dopamine
receptors/sites.
Posted by oracle on August 22, 2002, at 11:42:58
In reply to Re: L-tyrosine for stim-induced dopamine depletion » oracle, posted by jerrympls on August 21, 2002, at 18:49:39
> They don't? I've had many pdocs tell me that stimulants cause receptor burn out and drain the supply of dopamine, etc. Are those facts untrue? I wouldn't be suprised as the docs who have told me this were those "I'm not going to prescribe stimulants or anything addicted because I'll get my license revoked...blah blah blah."
However many pdoc say just to oppsite. I have only heard this in persons who abuse amphetamine
for years at very high doses.
>
> What does deplete dopamine?It is helpful to stop using the word "deplete"
in assoc with NT's. Parkinsons kills off dopamine
receptors/sites.
Posted by Jerrympls on August 22, 2002, at 22:39:51
In reply to Re: L-tyrosine for stim-induced dopamine depletion, posted by oracle on August 22, 2002, at 11:42:43
> > They don't? I've had many pdocs tell me that stimulants cause receptor burn out and drain the supply of dopamine, etc. Are those facts untrue? I wouldn't be suprised as the docs who have told me this were those "I'm not going to prescribe stimulants or anything addicted because I'll get my license revoked...blah blah blah."
>
> However many pdoc say just to oppsite. I have only heard this in persons who abuse amphetamine
> for years at very high doses.
> >
> > What does deplete dopamine?
>
> It is helpful to stop using the work "deplete"
> in assoc with NT's. Parkinsons kills off dopamine
> receptors/sites.
>
>
>
>Hmm. Interesting. I feel - and please correct me if I am mistaken - as if you interpreted my message as some sort of challenge. Perhaps I should have been more basic - If a depletion of dopamine does not occur, what accounts for the tolerance? It is well known that stimulants release NE and dopamine. Would you agree? I have not fully researched this as well as you have, but I would theorize that tolerance comes from post-synaptic downregulation among other events. What have you found while researching this?
Also, if I understand you correctly, because I have had a psychiatrist tell me he won't prescribe stimulants because "they cause receptor burn out" and/or "I'll lose my license.." that means - most likely - that I am an amphetamine junkie? If so, why wouldn't my doctor talk to me about my seemingly obvious problem with abusing stimulants and try to help me into rehab? Wouldn't it be wrong of the doctor to ignore the problem and instead excuse his/her way out of the situation with these apparently bogus claims of burn out, etc.? Interesting that one would would be guilty of such an addiction by simply asking a doctor about stimulant augmentation. I would find it rather odd and uncomfortable to hear a well-trained doctor become so instantly paranoid about his job safety after having simply asked about a common augmentation strategy. It seems as if you have done much careful study and/or have known many amphetamine abusers to throw such a blanket statement around. Fascinating.
Hmm, so, let's see - I should be careful about asking my doc what he thinks of "Tough-Actin' Tinactin" for athletes foot because he may get wind of my fungus fetish?
Brilliant.
Posted by oracle on August 22, 2002, at 23:30:47
In reply to Re: L-tyrosine for stim-induced dopamine depletion » oracle, posted by Jerrympls on August 22, 2002, at 22:39:51
> Hmm. Interesting. I feel - and please correct me if I am mistaken - as if you interpreted my message as some sort of challenge. Perhaps I should have been more basic - If a depletion of dopamine does not occur, what accounts for the tolerance? It is well known that stimulants release NE and dopamine. Would you agree?
Yes and there is plenty to go around, if you do not over do it.
I have not fully researched this as well as you have, but I would theorize that tolerance comes from post-synaptic downregulation among other events. What have you found while researching this?
Tolerance to amphetamines resolves quickly (days)
but does not happen at the normal doses perscribed, in most. This accounts for most
finding a dose and not needing to raise it.
Downregulation happens later, it is the at once
release of NE (more so) and dopamine (less so)
that accounts of the almost at once effectiveness
of amphetamines. The whole balence of neurology
is changed at once, instead of slowly, as in AD's.>
> Also, if I understand you correctly, because I have had a psychiatrist tell me he won't prescribe stimulants because "they cause receptor burn out" and/or "I'll lose my license.." that means - most likely - that I am an amphetamine junkie?Sorry, you are way off the mark here. Your doc and I are saying totally the oppsite things. You cannot add the 2 together and come up with a true statement. But, speaking of true statements:
1) "I'll lose my license.."
Come one ! Lots of doc's perscribe stims
and still have their DEA number. You have
clearly been lied to. (if in the states)2) "they cause receptor burn out"
Really ? I have been on 30 mgs Dex for 10
years, no tolerance, no burn out. And so have
many ADD'ers. I can go on and off Dex as a please
with 0 effects. (thanks to my HMO, I do this
too often !)JFK got us through the Cuban Missle Crisis
on meth.
Posted by Jerrympls on August 22, 2002, at 23:36:45
In reply to Re: L-tyrosine for stim-induced dopamine depletion, posted by oracle on August 22, 2002, at 23:30:47
Ok Cool! For a moment there I didn't understand where you were coming from - but I'm on your side. I also have not had problems with tolerance. The Dexedrine may not work exactly as it had 5-6 years ago when I was on it, but it still helps.
Thanks for the info!
Jerry
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