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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by velaguff on July 31, 2002, at 12:56:14
As I've posted earlier, I'm intrigued by the AD possibilities of phenylethylamine (PEA). Cocoa powder contains 66/100 of 1% by weight of PEA, measured in grams, 100g Cocoa = 660mg PEA. When I was in college in the early 80's, there was a rumor going around that chocolate would make you high, if you ate enough. I ate a whole pound, didn't do a thing for me. Chocolate contains several psychoactive ingredients, but PEA is chief among them. Some people, especially women, seem to get a "chocolate high". I'm not saying they're just under the sway of the placebo effect (who knows?) but PEA is supposedly almost all destroyed in the digestive tract. I personally known quite a few women who swear that chocolate gives them a unique kind of "high", plus a sensual mood, and relief from depression (unfortunately, it's fattening). Men, if they get relief from any food, seem to get it from meat (particulary beef). Anyway, I mixed 25g cocoa powder with 4oz DMSO (skin-penetrating solvent, but quite benign), and a half-ounce of water. Mixed in blender. I wanted to see if I could "ingest" chocolate without eating it, thus leaving the PEA intact to reach the charred ruin of my alcoholic brain. I must of looked quite comical, standing there in my shower stall, applying this mixture to practically all of my body except my face. Unlike the archaic unenlightened vaudevillians of old, I was not in "blackface", but in "blackbody". This wasn't a practical AD approach, mind you, just an experiment. After smearing it on, I left it on for about 3 minutes. DMSO produces, in me at least, an uncomfortable (but not painful) burning & tingling sensation. I tasted the garlickly taste of DMSO in my mouth (by penetrating the skin, it gets into your saliva), but also a DEFINITE taste of chocolate; the cocoa was penetrating. I showered off the residue, it rinsed off easily. I'm very cynical, and the placebo effect isn't likely, but I admit it's possible. But I definitely feel that I did experience a nice peaceful feeling, with increased motivation. Lasted about 1.5 hours. Now, consider: pure PEA is 150 times stronger than cocoa. Mix that with the more practical DMSO gel, add peppermint oil to prevent bad breath (and body odor, the garlickly smell also gets out through one's sweat), and you might be onto something. The gel would rub in without dripping off, no need to shower afterwards, and at the much higher strength, much less would be needed. Might last longer, too.
Posted by Ritch on July 31, 2002, at 13:27:00
In reply to Mondo Bizzaro Chocolate Experiment, posted by velaguff on July 31, 2002, at 12:56:14
> As I've posted earlier, I'm intrigued by the AD possibilities of phenylethylamine (PEA). Cocoa powder contains 66/100 of 1% by weight of PEA, measured in grams, 100g Cocoa = 660mg PEA. When I was in college in the early 80's, there was a rumor going around that chocolate would make you high, if you ate enough. I ate a whole pound, didn't do a thing for me. Chocolate contains several psychoactive ingredients, but PEA is chief among them. Some people, especially women, seem to get a "chocolate high". I'm not saying they're just under the sway of the placebo effect (who knows?) but PEA is supposedly almost all destroyed in the digestive tract. I personally known quite a few women who swear that chocolate gives them a unique kind of "high", plus a sensual mood, and relief from depression (unfortunately, it's fattening). Men, if they get relief from any food, seem to get it from meat (particulary beef). Anyway, I mixed 25g cocoa powder with 4oz DMSO (skin-penetrating solvent, but quite benign), and a half-ounce of water. Mixed in blender. I wanted to see if I could "ingest" chocolate without eating it, thus leaving the PEA intact to reach the charred ruin of my alcoholic brain. I must of looked quite comical, standing there in my shower stall, applying this mixture to practically all of my body except my face. Unlike the archaic unenlightened vaudevillians of old, I was not in "blackface", but in "blackbody". This wasn't a practical AD approach, mind you, just an experiment. After smearing it on, I left it on for about 3 minutes. DMSO produces, in me at least, an uncomfortable (but not painful) burning & tingling sensation. I tasted the garlickly taste of DMSO in my mouth (by penetrating the skin, it gets into your saliva), but also a DEFINITE taste of chocolate; the cocoa was penetrating. I showered off the residue, it rinsed off easily. I'm very cynical, and the placebo effect isn't likely, but I admit it's possible. But I definitely feel that I did experience a nice peaceful feeling, with increased motivation. Lasted about 1.5 hours. Now, consider: pure PEA is 150 times stronger than cocoa. Mix that with the more practical DMSO gel, add peppermint oil to prevent bad breath (and body odor, the garlickly smell also gets out through one's sweat), and you might be onto something. The gel would rub in without dripping off, no need to shower afterwards, and at the much higher strength, much less would be needed. Might last longer, too.
Hi, I like that subject line! Somewhat akin to the Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test. Seriously, it might be possible to develop a transdermal patch for PEA that might prove to be helpful. Do you remember Mr. Mike's Mondo Video and the swimming pool full of cats?Mitch
Posted by velaguff on July 31, 2002, at 16:53:40
In reply to Re: Mondo Bizzaro Chocolate Experiment » velaguff, posted by Ritch on July 31, 2002, at 13:27:00
I never saw that, Mitch, but I'll watch for it at the video place. That was around in the 70's, I think, but, somehow I missed it. Hope those cats had a sense of humor (OH, they do...they're laughing at their "masters" <HA!>, but I love them just the same).
Posted by velaguff on July 31, 2002, at 16:59:25
In reply to Mondo Bizzaro Chocolate Experiment, posted by velaguff on July 31, 2002, at 12:56:14
Sorry, I think I'm used to seeing either "Rich", 4 letters, or "Mitch", 5 letters, and subconsciously blended the two.
Posted by Jaynee on July 31, 2002, at 17:10:40
In reply to Re: Reply to Mitch Mondo Bizzaro, posted by velaguff on July 31, 2002, at 16:53:40
I love my chocolate before my period. Of course I've looked up the different theories as to why this is. The one that stuck was the theory of low magnesium. It has been fasinating. Look it up on Google and Pub Med. Low Magnesium. I have started taking magnesium and calcium supplements. I've only been taking it for about 3 weeks now, and they say it takes about 6 months to notice the difference. I have a metabolic disorder called hemochromatosis that causes me to absorb to much iron, which interfers in the absorbtion of other minerals, magnesium being one of them. Of course I had to figure all this out on my own. I even had to ask for the genetic test to get a proper diagnosis of Hemochromatosis. They were about to treat me for lupus. This is a whole other story. But the magesium theory is an important one for many of us depressive types. So is excessive iron levels.
Here is some info, but there is better out there. Check it out!!!
Magnesium
Covers common conditions linked to a deficiency
Part One
Read my disclaimer and terms of use.
Magnesium is a must. The diets of all Americans are likely to be
deficient in magnesium....Even a mild deficiency causes
sensitiveness to noise, nervousness, irritability, mental depression,
confusion, twitching, trembling, apprehension, insomnia, muscle
weakness and cramps in the toes, feet, legs, or fingers.Adelle Davis, writing in Let's Have Healthy Children
Magnesium is a trace mineral that is known to be required for several
hundred different functions in the body. A significant portion of the
symptoms of many chronic disorders are identical to symptoms of
magnesium deficiency. Studies show many people in the U.S. today
do not consume the daily recommended amounts of magnesium. A
lack of magnesium be a major factor in many common health
problems in industrialized countries. Common conditions such as
mitral valve prolapse, migraines, attention deficit disorder,
fibromyalgia, asthma and allergies have all been linked to magnesium
deficiency. Perhaps, not coincidentally, these conditions also tend to
occur in clusters together within the same individual. A magnesium
deficiency as a root cause would provide a logical explanation of why
some people suffer from a constellation of these types of problems.Many of the following conditions commonly occur in conjunction with
each other and all have been linked to a magnesium deficiency.Disorders Linked to Magnesium Deficiency - Part 1
Allergies, Chemical Sensitivities and Magnesium
Anxiety and Psychiatric Disorders
Aorta Strength
Magnesium and Asthma
Attention Deficit Disorder
Calcification of Soft Tissue Including Heart Valves
Also see Magnesium - Part Two
Return to top
Allergies and Chemical Sensitivities
In the book Encyclopedia of Natural Medicine, the authors note that
food allergies are usually associated with low hydrochloric acid levels
and poor digestion. The authors' rationale for this is that low
stomach acid leaves food undigested and fermenting in the intestinal
tract. This fermentation causes gas, bloating and stomach upset,
the symptoms of irritable bowel syndrome. Undigested and
fermented food causes the body to raise histamine levels, which
produce allergic reactions. This is why people take antihistamines
for allergies, to lower histamine levels. Interestingly, magnesium is
needed to reduce histamine levels.Low stomach acid levels reduce levels of beneficial intestinal bacteria
which is needed for absorption of magnesium. When lab rats are
deprived of magnesium, a wide variety of studies have noted that
they develop allergy like symptoms. Their ears turn red and they
develop skin problems. Rats with magnesium deficiencies have
increases in histamine levels. They also have raised levels of white
blood cell counts. Magnesium deficiency has been implicated in
allergies and allergic skin reaction in many studies on humans, too.
Variations of allergies, skin allergies, and raised white blood cells
have all been noted as features of many chronic disorders.People with chemical sensitivities also commonly have other
conditions linked to magnesium deficits such as allergies,
fibromyalgia, mitral valve prolapse and anxiety disorders. They also
tend to have TMJ, which has been linked to abnormalities of
hyaluronic acid. Perhaps not coincidentally, hyaluronic acid is
dependent upon magnesium for its synthesis.
Asthma is has been linked to magnesium deficiencies in a wide
variety of studies. Asthma and allergies not only frequently occur
together, but they frequently occur together along with gastrointestinal
upset in many chronic disorders including Mitral Valve Prolapse
syndrome and Ehlers-Danlos syndrome. Gastrointestinal upset is
often a sign of malabsorption problems, which can be a cause of
nutritional deficiencies.
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Anxiety and Psychiatric DisordersMagnesium deficiency causes increased levels of adrenaline, which
can lead to a feeling of anxiety. Rats who become magnesium
deficient have an increased level of urinary catecholamine excretion
(a by-product of adrenaline).People who have mitral valve prolapse have also been found to have
an increased state of anxiety and have an increased level of urinary
catecholamine excretion, the exact same condition found in rats who
are magnesium deficient.It is not surprising then, to find that people with mitral valve prolapse
are usually low in magnesium, and that magnesium supplementation
alleviates the symptoms of mitral valve prolapse and reduces the
level of urinary catecholamine excretion, i.e. it also reduces the
anxiety symptoms.Researchers in Spain found a correlation between anxiety disorders
and hypermobility. In fact, they found that patients with anxiety
disorder were over 16 times more likely than control subjects to have
joint laxity. If you put the study results together, then there's a link
between anxiety and hypermobility, a link between anxiety and mitral
valve prolapse, and a link between mitral valve prolapse and
hypermobility.These studies tell us that anxiety disorders occur in many people
who simply have mitral valve prolapse and/or joint hypermobility,
meaning anxiety disorders are not specific to EDS or any particular
connective tissue disorder. Marfans also have mitral valve prolapse
and joint hypermobility which would lead one to conjecture that they,
too, have anxiety related disorders. As it turns out, a connection
between Marfans and anxiety related disorders has been noted.A study in Bulgaria also found magnesium abnormalities in patients
with schizophrenia and depression. The authors thought the
schizophrenia and depression caused the magnesium deficiencies,
but I disagree that that was necessarily the case. When you look at
this study within the context of all the other studies mentioned in this
section, it is more likely that the magnesium abnormalities caused
the mental illness. (There are quite a few studies on magnesium and
mental illness on Medline. I just included a few to highlight my
points.)In a study from England, there was a strong association for more
disturbed and excitable patients to have abnormal (either high or low)
magnesium levels. The authors thought that the patients who
seemed most disturbed may have some abnormality of magnesium
metabolism.To read up on the link between cholesterol levels and anxiety,
depression and suicide, see my web page on low cholesterol levels.I found that in addition to changing my diet to get more magnesium,
gentle stretching and yoga exercises also helped me to reduce my
anxiety levels. One of the books that helped me in this area is Relax
and Renew.
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Aorta StrengthIn an experiment on lab rats, the animals had their thoracic aortas
injured with balloons. They were then fed diets with low, normal or
high magnesium concentrations. The rat aortas with the high
magnesium diets healed better than the normal and low magnesium
diets.
For more information on aortae, also see my section on Marfan
Syndrome - The Similarities to Copper Deficiency..
Return to top
Asthma
Magnesium sulfate is used as a treatment for asthma.Magnesium is known to be important for proper lung functioning.
Magnesium is being increasingly looked at as a treatment for
asthma.A study from Brown University showed "remarkable" improvement in
children with asthma who were treated with intravenous magnesium.Low polymorphonuclear magnesium content has been observed in
patients with bronchial asthma. The study authors believe that
polymorphonuclear magnesium content may have an important role
in causing asthma.A study reported on in the Lancet, notes that people who have diets
lower in magnesium have more asthmatic symptoms. People with
diets higher in magnesium have less asthmatic symptoms.Magnesium prevents pre-asthmatic lung changes in animal studies.
Asthma is a common finding in connective tissue disorders, as are
keratoconus, mitral valve prolapse, rachitic skeletal defects and
many other conditions associated with magnesium
deficiency. Asthma occurs frequently along with allergies, seizures
and many other disorders that can all be linked to a magnesium
deficiency.Click here to go to my diet page for foods that have helped my
breathing problems.Also see my cool links section for more information on asthma.
Related topic:
Pregnant women could prevent their children developing asthma and
other allergies by eating food which is rich in vitamin E, new research
has suggested.
Return to top
Attention Deficit Disorder
A medication containing magnesium has been used successfully to
treat attention deficit hyperactivity disorder.In a study from Poland, children with ADHD were been found to more
deficient than controls in a selected number of bioelements.
Magnesium deficiencies were the most pronounced difference.
Magnesium supplementation in the ADHD children decreased their
hyperactivity.
In a study from Germany, boys with reactive behavior problems were
treated with a medication containing magnesium with positive
results.
I don't know if this relates directly to ADD or ADHD or not, but I found
the following study interesting. In a study on guinea pigs, a group of
the animals that had magnesium deficiencies induced showed
changes in their brain waves.In a study from England, there was a strong association for more
disturbed and excitable patients to have abnormal (either high or low)
magnesium levels. The authors thought that the patients who
seemed most disturbed may have some abnormality of magnesium
metabolism.Also see my cool links section for more information on ADD.
Return to top
Calcification Of Soft Tissue Including Heart ValvesMagnesium is a known treatment for a variety of types of calcification
of soft tissues.Magnesium levels have been found to be greatly reduced in calcified
mitral valves.In a study of rats, magnesium deficiency has been shown to cause
aortic calcification.Vitamin K deficiency has also been linked to calcification of soft
tissues.
Return to top
Continued at Magnesium - Part Two
Visit my connective tissue disorder home page and use my search
feature for more information on magnesium and related topics.If you need a good book for back, neck or scoliosis pain, common
conditions in people with nutritional deficiencies, I recommend the
book:
Back Care Basics : A Doctor's
Gentle Program for Back and
Neck Pain Relief
Also see my recommended book list for other books I found helpful.
Many of these topics are also covered in my Cool Links section.
Related sections of interest:
Nystagmus
TMJ
Mitral Valve Prolapse
Scoliosis
Some good links for magnesium information:
The Importance of Magnesium to Human Nutrition
The Magnesium Website - an amazing amount of information related
to magnesium, including books and a link with information on a
magnesium hotline number!How to Eat Enough Magnesium
Disclaimer and Terms of Use
Posted by katekite on July 31, 2002, at 17:55:48
In reply to Re: Reply to Mitch Mondo Bizzaro, posted by velaguff on July 31, 2002, at 16:53:40
Posted by velaguff on July 31, 2002, at 19:24:48
In reply to Mondo Bizzaro Chocolate Experiment, posted by velaguff on July 31, 2002, at 12:56:14
Ritch's PEApatch (HA!) approach goes one better RE: PEA. If one buys magnesium supplements, be sure to get either magnesium ASPARTATE, CITRATE, or OROTATE, or some combination of those. "Colloidal" mineral blends might be good, but I haven't looked into those. Magnesium OXIDE is almost useless (not a bioavailable form), but vitamin makers like it because it's cheap. It's what you'll find in "Centrum" type multivites, nurses who process stool samples have said that those hard things pass through practically undigested.
Posted by Ritch on July 31, 2002, at 23:33:02
In reply to Re: Reply Mondo Bizzaro RITCH, not Mitch, posted by velaguff on July 31, 2002, at 16:59:25
> Sorry, I think I'm used to seeing either "Rich", 4 letters, or "Mitch", 5 letters, and subconsciously blended the two.
>
>
>So did I. Bizarre, hmmmm.
Posted by Ritch on July 31, 2002, at 23:38:11
In reply to Re: Reply to Mitch Mondo Bizzaro, posted by velaguff on July 31, 2002, at 16:53:40
> I never saw that, Mitch, but I'll watch for it at the video place. That was around in the 70's, I think, but, somehow I missed it. Hope those cats had a sense of humor (OH, they do...they're laughing at their "masters" <HA!>, but I love them just the same).
Mr. Mike is Michael O'Donaghue (writer from SNL in the '70's). They tossed all of these cats into this Olympic swimming pool (in the middle-of course), and they all started making beelines for the edges of the swimming pool (all equally *dog-paddling* away to the nearest non-water destination).
Mitch
This is the end of the thread.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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