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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by 2sense on July 6, 2002, at 18:08:14
found a new pdoc and almost off the horror of carbamazepine (tegretol) only 100 mg left and then 2 weeks and it is out of the system BUT still have to be weaned off of the clonazepam and the new doc is saying .5 mg once a week and I think this is WAY to fast -- I had the grand mal sezure when I went 3 days w/o sleep and 4 days without the clonazepam (dose 4 mg for insominia but the old pdoc was backdooring me on the reason for the upped dose). I DO NOT want another seizure and it took a lot of money, time, stress, and aggravation to retain my driver's license.
Anyone had success? What weaning process did you use? I do NOT want to go on a 'complementary drug' the Tegretol added nearly 20 lbs. and now my thyroid (I have Hashimoto's) is VERY screwed up and the Synthroid stopped working basically because of the Tegretol but I need a real thyroid doctor because my reg doc is being so conservative and my hair is falling out, going gray, the depression, the weight, the whole nine yards I did 4 years ago -- my TSH is at 4 X it was when I first was treated the lower the Tegretol dose the higher the TSH (it the TSH was VERY depressed like hyperthyroid -- but the Tegretol has a side effect of DEPRESSING the TSH levels -- the new psych doc is horrified the meds I've been given -- she is surprised I didn't have more seizures long ago given the combo or WORSE). What side effects has anyone experienced?
PS and by the way they are telling me I probably not definitely have a mild case of MS slow moving and I get to start daily for the rest of my life injectiond of Copaxone starting August -- it is a relatively new (8 years) MS drug that doesn't cure it but slows it, stops it in its tracks -- except for a mild case of optic neuritis 3+ years ago I have had no symptoms at all and only know this due to the grand mal and the mri they did and they found a couple of small enhanced foci .... keep on trucking ... and thanks for being out there ... Sue
Posted by katekite on July 7, 2002, at 10:11:36
In reply to Withdrawal from Clonazepam (Klonopin), posted by 2sense on July 6, 2002, at 18:08:14
Hi Sue,
Sounds like you are going through a lot! Hang in there.
There is no reason to stress your body by doing 0.5 mg a week. At 0.5 mg a week you are not too likely to get seizures, but insomnia etc is not unlikely...and who really needs that?
I did 0.25 mg every two weeks. (I'm still on .25 mg a day at the moment). I found I would get a few days of insomnia about 4-5 days after every reduction. I have Cushing's syndrome so am more sensitive to meds and med changes than some might be. However mild your MS is, you are surely more sensitive to some drugs from it (I'm sure it doesn't feel 'mild'). Maybe as you are going down from the beginning you could do 0.25mg decrease a week, then switch to less often if you run into insomnia or jitters.
Have you read about curcumin for MS? Brand new research. I will try to find some info for you. No harm in eating lots of curry, which is why I remember about it. Of course, this is in mice so far... so it's hard to know if humans would react similarly.
Take care -- kate.
----------
Curry Spice May Halt Progression of MS
Hot on the heels of reports suggesting that curcumin, a compound present in the curry spice turmeric, can help to treat cancer researchers have now found that it may stop the progression of multiple sclerosis (MS). Dr Chandramohan Natarajan of Vanderbilt University discovered that mice with an MS-like disease developed little or no signs of disease symptoms after receiving injections of curcumin. Natarajan and his colleagues found that untreated mice developed full-blown experimental autoimmune encephalomyelitis (EAE) - an autoimmune condition used as a model for multiple sclerosis - and severe paralysis within just 15 days. However, mice treated with thrice-weekly 50-micrograms injections of curcumin only developed minor disease symptoms, and mice given a 100-microgram dose of the compound presented with no symptoms at all.
SOURCE/REFERENCE: Reported by www.reutershealth.com on the 24th April 2002
Posted by 2sense on July 7, 2002, at 15:53:01
In reply to Re: Withdrawal from Clonazepam (Klonopin), posted by katekite on July 7, 2002, at 10:11:36
Thanks for the info -- sleep deprivation CAUSES seizures too -- that was part of the problem I didn't have the clonazepam and didn't sleep -- I have no MS symptoms just the optic neuritis and then what they found on the MRI -- I have been to no less than 4 neurologists and one more soon early August who specializes in MS -- the upshot is that everyone thinks do the copaxone because of all the studies are saying. Thanks for the tip on the curry. I have to deal with the insomnia thing because the STRESS is and has been at an all time high for years and years. The diag I have (and have gotten before is) on going Post traumatic stress because it is the stress that never ends -- it is external but is wears the immune system out -- like the thyroid thing they are sort of mesh together but they all are caused by the excessive stress and you can't just walk away from your family -- at least I can't but you can't control their actions either and being the mother you are (I am) the center of the wheel. They do not think that the MS is going much of anywhere based statistically on how it is proceeding and no attacks and how it started, etc, etc. but who knows ... right now I have to deal with the stress all around and the anticipation of the clonazepam w/d -- and I have to get off the stuff because it has strange side effects -- which is why I wanted off of it in the first place that ... well anyway ... thanks.
Posted by katekite on July 8, 2002, at 10:07:58
In reply to Re: Withdrawal from Clonazepam (Klonopin), posted by 2sense on July 7, 2002, at 15:53:01
What weird side effects do you get from klonopin?
Do you have an endocrinologist?
Kate
Posted by 2sense on July 8, 2002, at 11:49:42
In reply to Re: Withdrawal from Clonazepam (Klonopin), posted by katekite on July 8, 2002, at 10:07:58
Irritability, behavioral type of things -- weight gain though I am not certain since the Tegretol (diferent reason I was on it and am down to the last 3 days on it -- not for mood stabilizing) affects the appetite portion of one's brain.
It is also highly addictive -- 4 mg. is not a low dose. When I cold turkeyed it and went without sleep for 3 days straight I had the seizure hence the Tegretol, blah, blah. I have a new pdoc but my point of service doc is the one who does the thyroid but the new pdoc gave me a name of a good endocrinologist for the thyroid -- since I am seeing the point of serivce guy Wednesday I thought I would wait and see what he said. My TSH was at 16.5 and my hypothyroid symptoms are WORSE than ever and it is hard to know what symptoms go with what, if you know what I mean. Plus when I was first diagnosed with the Hashimoto's and finally treated (it took 2 years different story -- doctors drive me batty) after just a couple of weeks on the Synthroid it was like being dug up from the grave but the damage had been done to the carpal tunnel in the wrist and I had to have 2 hand surgeries and thank God because the right one was so bad I would have lost use of the hand.
Hope that answer the question. I know that Tegretol (which stinks) is used for helping people w/d from benzo (even alcoholics) but I do not want the side effects from it -- does anyone know if Topamax would do the same thing as a "complementary" drug?
Thanks as always --
Sue
Posted by katekite on July 9, 2002, at 9:03:41
In reply to Re: Withdrawal from Clonazepam (Klonopin) » katekite, posted by 2sense on July 8, 2002, at 11:49:42
When researchers study panic, they use a gaba receptor antagonist (opposite of a benzodiazepine) to induce panic attacks. Nothing else works quite as well, apparently.
Stopping a benzodiazepine is pretty much the same as giving yourself a gaba antagonist....
As far as tapering, I have been going off of klonopin now for about 6 months, LOL. It can take a long time. The other thing to be aware of is if you will be having endocrine tests being in withdrawal can screw them up: you may want to wait for an ok from the endocrinologist before tapering. It's probably something you could call and ask before the appointment if the appointment isn't for a while.
As far as I've read, the best substitute for a benzo is another benzo. Ativan, for example. It will be slightly different so you could still get a little withdrawal. I've been told, but don't know if it's true, that if one uses the crutch benzo for less than a couple weeks you won't have time to become dependent on it.
Take care,
kate
Posted by judy1 on July 9, 2002, at 11:52:53
In reply to Re: Withdrawal from Clonazepam (Klonopin), posted by katekite on July 9, 2002, at 9:03:41
I agree, tapering over a very extended period is the best. At one time I went from 6mg/day to 0- about .25mg/week, sometimes I would have to give my body an extra week or 2 to get used to the new level. I also took clonidine, for some reason 0.2mg/day sticks in my mind (but I'm not positive). That really helped with the irritability and problems with sleep. Best of luck, judy
Posted by Shawn. T. on July 10, 2002, at 17:33:26
In reply to Re: Withdrawal from Clonazepam (Klonopin), posted by katekite on July 8, 2002, at 10:07:58
Valerian root helps some people. I don't know about Ativan for Klonopin withdrawal. I didn't mind withdrawing from Klonopin, but withdrawing from Ativan was no fun.
Posted by Mr. Scott on July 11, 2002, at 0:03:02
In reply to Re: Withdrawal from Clonazepam (Klonopin), posted by Shawn. T. on July 10, 2002, at 17:33:26
Posted by johnj on July 11, 2002, at 8:25:18
In reply to Switch to Clorazepate and taper by 3.75mg per week (nm), posted by Mr. Scott on July 11, 2002, at 0:03:02
HI,
A few years back I went from 15 mg to 7.5 mgs and experienced a lot of leg twitching. More annoying and troublesome than anything else. I have since had to go back up to 15 and recently had to add another 7.5 mg. So much for getting off. I actually thought that klonopin might be better for me since it seems to help more with depression. Anybody know about that?
Posted by 2sense on July 11, 2002, at 10:44:56
In reply to Clorazepate Withdrawl, posted by johnj on July 11, 2002, at 8:25:18
Klonopin (Clonazepam) is prescribed (quantity I don't know -- but a PDR would tell you) for the "restless leg syndrome" -- sounds like it could be interrelated?
Just my 2sense
Posted by judy1 on July 11, 2002, at 18:36:05
In reply to Clorazepate Withdrawl, posted by johnj on July 11, 2002, at 8:25:18
I think you're very fortunate that klonopin helps your depression since a lot of people have the opposite problem. I am going to guess that your depression is anxiety related and since klonopin is so helpful with anxiety/panic disorders perhaps by getting rid of that symptom you've gotten rid of the secondary one. take care, judy
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