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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by judy1 on June 18, 2002, at 20:45:27
al) for ADD and not for routine use? There was a news story about middle aged women who are trying to be perfect moms- children, jobs, immaculate home- and can only achieve it using speed. They said somthing like 40% women vs 25% men were getting jail time for possession, etc. I see a lot of posts using it for depression- has anyone gotten into trouble or do most of you use it at recommended doses like panic disordered patients use benzos or chronic pain people use morphine? This is a curiousity question, and by no means accusatory. Thanks, Judy
Posted by fachad on June 18, 2002, at 21:44:50
In reply to Just curious- do all of you use speed (ritalin et , posted by judy1 on June 18, 2002, at 20:45:27
First, the preferred nomenclature for these medications is psychostimulants, or pstims, not "speed".
Pstims are medically prescribed medications; speed carries a connotation of illegal street drugs.
What do you mean by "routine use"?
Your example of the housewife did not really make sense to me. If a housewife was trying to keep a clean home, bring up children, etc, and depression was keeping that from happening, and she was given Prozac to help her feel better about her life and get her old self back, is that the kind of thing you are talking about?
The psychostimulants are being used more frequently for depression and other conditions because they work very well for some people. It is because of drug abusers that some pdocs are reluctant to prescribe them, and some patients fear them.
As far as to your question about people "getting into trouble", I'm sure it's just like anything else. Some pain patients take their opiates for years without abuse; some start right off abusing them from the first day. Same for benzos, pstims, and anything else.
My pdoc says there are some people out there who will abuse anything. I've known people who drank a whole bottle of cough syrup to get off, or crushed and snorted Elavil, sniffed liquid paper, the gas from whipping cream, it goes on and on.
I have a big bottle of Vicodin from a back injury last year. It's sat around for a year and I've never said, "woohoo, party!". If my back hurts, I take some. Next to it is my bottle of Dexadrine. I'm supposed to take 2 tablets 2 times per day, but some days I forget, or I feel too jittery so I take less. That means I have extra tablets left over each month. But again, no party, no abuse.
What I've figured out from reflecting on this whole drug abuse issue is that the drugs themselves are not inherently evil or inherently addictive.
Drug abuse is a pathological tendency. It is not a feature of the normal, healthy personality. That statement is not meant to be judgmental to people with drug abuse problems, nor is it meant to imply that normal people never experiment with and enjoy the effects of psychoactive drugs.
What is does mean is that, in the absence of an addictive personality, a person can be exposed to psychoactive drugs, they may even experience pleasant subjective sensations from those drugs, but they will not develop a compulsive pattern of life-destroying drug abuse.
But the critical thing to keep in mind is that it is not ever the drugs themselves that cause problems or get people into trouble. The drugs are just the particular way a personality disorder, whether biologically or character based, or both, becomes manifest in the behavior of the affected individual.
This becomes very clear when you see how an addicted person can be removed from one thing, only to have the addictive traits clamp onto and manifest through another behavior.
> al) for ADD and not for routine use? There was a news story about middle aged women who are trying to be perfect moms- children, jobs, immaculate home- and can only achieve it using speed. They said somthing like 40% women vs 25% men were getting jail time for possession, etc. I see a lot of posts using it for depression- has anyone gotten into trouble or do most of you use it at recommended doses like panic disordered patients use benzos or chronic pain people use morphine? This is a curiousity question, and by no means accusatory. Thanks, Judy
Posted by judy1 on June 18, 2002, at 23:18:57
In reply to Many Uses of Psychostimulants vs. Substance Abuse » judy1, posted by fachad on June 18, 2002, at 21:44:50
Thanks for your answer, fashad. Basically it's what I thought- addictive personalities abuse drugs, and it really doesn't matter which one. The report was on NBC morning show and followed a woman who claimed she needed meth to fulfill all her obligations- I didn't get the sense of any mental illness, just abuse at up to $1500/day (which probably meant street drugs) Again thanks for your insights- Judy
Posted by Christina on June 19, 2002, at 19:33:26
In reply to Just curious- do all of you use speed (ritalin et , posted by judy1 on June 18, 2002, at 20:45:27
I take Adderall for ADD.
It doesn't make me super-mom or super anything.
It allows me to function at a basic level of normalcy.
Posted by IsoM on June 19, 2002, at 23:48:48
In reply to Just curious- do all of you use speed (ritalin et , posted by judy1 on June 18, 2002, at 20:45:27
Yeah, Judy, I saw that piece on the news too & thought "Great, another idiot that ruins it for us who use stimulants sensibly for ADD or whatever." It's these pieces on the news that make us cautious about telling others about our med use. And sadly, doctors are not above being influenced by such reports & thinking that we don't need it.
I'd venture to say most of us are responsible in our use of such meds. We're aware that tolerance can develop with increasing doses & do our best to use these medications in a wise manner.
How's your precious little one & hope you don't mind me asking - still nursing her?
Posted by noa on June 20, 2002, at 16:39:10
In reply to Re: Many Uses of Psychostimulants vs. Substance Abuse » fachad, posted by judy1 on June 18, 2002, at 23:18:57
Hi, Judy. $1500/day is quite steep and does suggest a very different picture than medical use of psychostims. Just like, as you say, medically appropriate use of benzos in treatment is a different picture than abusive use of benzos. I've basically kept a steady dose of psychostim as long as I've been on it(about 6 years), with very few increases at all--just minor adjustments, beside changes of the particular medicine after a couple of years on each (from Ritalin to Ritalin SR to Adderall to Adderall XR).
Posted by BLPBart on June 20, 2002, at 18:24:07
In reply to Re: Many Uses of Psychostimulants vs. Substance Abuse, posted by noa on June 20, 2002, at 16:39:10
Hi Judy,
Another pstim user here. I have been on dexedrine since January for a combination of ADD and depression. I am prescribed 40 mg/day but often take less than that or none at all. I spend $22.00 a month since my insurance covers it. I have never gotten a euphoric feeling from it which is what I think causes many people to keep upping the dose because they want to continue to get that feeling after it wears off. For me, it just helps me get through a day.
Posted by Schuyler on June 21, 2002, at 10:31:26
In reply to Just curious- do all of you use speed (ritalin et , posted by judy1 on June 18, 2002, at 20:45:27
> has anyone gotten into trouble or do most of you use it at recommended doses like panic disordered patients use benzos or chronic pain people use morphine? This is a curiousity question, and by no means accusatory. Thanks, Judy
I am very fortunate that I have never been hooked on alcohol or any other drug, including Ritalin, which I use per Rx.
Posted by judy1 on June 22, 2002, at 1:26:54
In reply to Re: Just curious- do all of you use speed (ritalin et » judy1, posted by IsoM on June 19, 2002, at 23:48:48
Thanks for the info and asking about my baby- she's doing incredibly well but I did stop nursing because my klonopin levels were high and she was sleeping a little too well. So I gave it my best and between pumping when I was off meds and actually nursing she got 3 good months- a nice healthy start :-). Take care, Judy
Posted by judy1 on June 22, 2002, at 1:33:50
In reply to Re: Just curious- do all of you use speed (ritalin et , posted by Schuyler on June 21, 2002, at 10:31:26
I think the common denominator with any of the drugs that can be abused is the feeling of euphoria and not increasing the dose on your own. I have to admit that I did get euphoric at first on pain meds (morphine) which was probably why it's such a great AD, but if I had chased that high I would have been in big trouble and I tapered off pretty easily, which I guess is common with chronic pain patients. So I think you're right Judy, the news sensationalized a story, and there was no professional addressing the legitimite uses of ritalin et al. Take care, Judy
Posted by Phil on June 22, 2002, at 6:29:41
In reply to Thanks everyone!!!, posted by judy1 on June 22, 2002, at 1:33:50
Posted by judy1 on June 22, 2002, at 23:29:01
In reply to $1500.00 of meth a day??? I don't think so : ) (nm) » judy1, posted by Phil on June 22, 2002, at 6:29:41
That was the dollar amount given on the show by the woman in prison; I know in my younger days I've spent that much on coke. Is meth that much cheaper? Thanks-judy
Posted by Phil on June 23, 2002, at 5:26:17
In reply to Why Phil?, posted by judy1 on June 22, 2002, at 23:29:01
After I posted that, I thought about how long it's been since I used it and how much of a drug some people can take.
If I did that much coke or crank, I'd be dead as a door knob. 15 times over.
So, it's probably not that unusual but I had two friends die and one basically burnt his brain to oblivion on a whole lot less crank.
Posted by judy1 on June 23, 2002, at 12:44:10
In reply to Re: Why Phil?, posted by Phil on June 23, 2002, at 5:26:17
Don't you feel fortunate that you were able to stop? I've lost friends also- we used to free-base all day with people who had a lot of money- she went down to 80-90 pounds and some self-preservation part of me told me to get out. I've always felt fortunate that way, I've used many drugs and was always able to stop. Was it the same for you?- Take care, Judy
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