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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 24 of 24. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by janejj on May 11, 2002, at 17:32:53
Hi everyone,
Which is the best drug to take to make you more chatty ???? Otherwise I think I'll lose my job, which will do wonders for my self esteem and depression.
janejj
Posted by Krazy Kat on May 11, 2002, at 18:15:59
In reply to The best drug to make you more chatty, posted by janejj on May 11, 2002, at 17:32:53
if you're not encumbered by being "quiet", which i assume you are (quiet, that is), then change jobs if you can. change industries, change lifestyles. not all require a chatty personality. but i know i don't know all of your details.
i put up a false bravado for years and denied the fact that, at heart, I'm quiet. i am bipolar, so when manic i'm Really gregarious, and when depressed, I hide in the closet. On a mood stabilizer that works, Depakote, I am introverted - this is my true nature, so to speak. And I prefer A LOT of time alone.
There seems to be a stigma surrounding the non-chatty. I can't stand people who never shut-up. :)
But, again, janejj, if it seems like your true nature should be chattier, if you feel trapped by depression or a social phobia, then that's different. I'm not sure what's best -- i guess an AD. Or an Anti-Anxiety med. I'm trying to recall what I've read here...
Paxil? Or Prozac (as a Bipolar, Prozac made me manic, which meant I crashed later, but it was also my favorite AD).
Good luck!!!
- kk
Posted by Phil on May 11, 2002, at 18:56:56
In reply to Re: The best drug to make you more chatty » janejj, posted by Krazy Kat on May 11, 2002, at 18:15:59
Ritalin, Adderall etc. Well, I once talked to a fence post for two hours. No really, the stims, I needed for spacy ADD but they saved my ass in sales. I had been in sales for years but somedays just could not talk to people. On Ritalin and Paxil at the time I could pretty much rise to the occasion of greeting a customer and taking money from them in exchange for Italian and Danish furniture. I could talk to anyone while in sales but when I get home, I'm quiet and, preferably alone. You know, unless Charro is in town. Partay!! woohoo
Posted by paxvox2000 on May 11, 2002, at 20:16:51
In reply to Re: If your doc approves it, posted by Phil on May 11, 2002, at 18:56:56
Yes, we would ALL like the amphetamines to make us chatty, but alas..... Actually, what works for me is opiates. However, there is REALLY a lot of argument now on this type of therapy. Mark my words though, you will see this become more common in the future. Some people, like me, respond paradoxically to so-called sedatives. I guess this is why AMPS help ADD ( I mean why give speed to a hyper person?). Anyways, just my two cents.
PAX
Posted by Phil on May 11, 2002, at 20:36:27
In reply to Re: If your doc approves it » Phil, posted by paxvox2000 on May 11, 2002, at 20:16:51
Posted by 3 Beer Effect on May 12, 2002, at 5:03:27
In reply to The best drug to make you more chatty, posted by janejj on May 11, 2002, at 17:32:53
The 'activating' SSRIs, Prozac & Zoloft are said to "turn shy people into social butterflies". For more info on this phenomenon read the widely available paperback book "Listening to Prozac" by Dr. Peter D. Kramer.
I found Zoloft at 100 mg made me much more chatty, sociable. 75mg is probably the minimum required for Zoloft to work, 50 mg doesn't cut it for most people. It takes SSRIs atleast 2-4 weeks to work, so you might want to get an appointment with your doctor immediately if you want to be chatty at work in the next month.
Although I have never tried Prozac, I have read alot about psychopharmacology & social phobia/inhibition, & I would argue that Zoloft 100 mg would be superior to Prozac because Zoloft tends to cause less anxiety/nervousness, it performed slightly (although statistically insignificantly) better than Paxil in a double-blind social phobia trial, & Zoloft is the only SSRI that has slight dopamine reuputake inhibition properties- there is a strong possiblility that social phobia is related to a deficiency in BOTH Serotonin & Dopamine, with low Dopamine being implicated in timidity/lack of self-confidence/lack of self-esteem.
Supporting this dopamine + serotonin theory is that tricyclic antidepressants like imipramine that boost norepinephrine & serotonin are ineffective at treating social phobia while MAOIs which boost serotonin, norepinephrine, & dopamine are very effective- the MAOI antidepressant 'Nardil' is considered the "gold-standard" of social phobia medications, although Nardil is rarely prescribed anymore because of potentially fatal interactions it has with certain foods & drugs.
If you need something to work right away, your options are pretty much limited to an amphetamine such as Dexedrine or Adderall plus a high dose of the benzodiazepine Klonopin.
Dexedrine at lower doses 5 2-3x per day is great for social phobia, & besides SSRIs or Alcohol is one of the few good social 'disinhibitors'. But at higher doses such as 10-20 mg 2x per day Dexedrine/Dextrostat serves better as a medicine for Attention Deficit Disorder or an adjunct to severe lethargic/anhedonic depression.
Adderall 10 mg 2x per day or Adderall XR 20 mg/day also works for social phobia but causes a bit more anxiety than Dexedrine, although it does last longer.
Either Dexedrine or Adderall should be combined with 2-4 mg/day of Klonopin (the standard dose range for social phobia) divided into a 1 mg breakfast, 1 mg lunch, & a bedtime dose if necessary. Klonopin alleviates any anxiety & is one of the most effective social phobia medicines. Klonopin + Dexedrine/Adderall mutually potentiate each other's 'social disinhibition'/chattiness' properties and is the closest thing to a 'quick fix' if that is what you are looking for to keep from losing your job. THIS DEX/KLONOPIN COMBO WORKS FROM DAY ONE, & actually works well long term if you take breaks from the Dexedrine once in awhile to prevent tolerance to its socialbilizing effects.
If you have more time, the Zoloft 100 mg + Klonopin 2-4 mg combo would probably work best in the long run. (Notes: The starting dose of Zoloft is a low 50 mg & most doctors won't increase it more often than in 2 week intervals. Also, many doctors are afraid of prescribing benzodiazepines (largely because of reports of Xanax & Valium abuse), but Klonopin is arguably the least addictive of the benzos because it produces no euphoria, has a slow (1 hr) onset of action, long 30-40 hour 1/2 life, 12 hour (long) duration all of which are characteristics unfavorable to abuse.
Hope this helps- you might want to print this out to show to your doctor, except if I were you I would delete the name 3 Beer Effect,
3 Beers..........
Posted by jonh kimble on May 12, 2002, at 16:42:50
In reply to Zoloft 100mg or Prozac 20+mg or Dexedrine+Klonopin, posted by 3 Beer Effect on May 12, 2002, at 5:03:27
good post 3 beers. well janejj, like the last post said, other than crack and alcohol, youre not going to get a faster pro social response than trying dexedrin or adderall and klonopin. the effect is quite powerful as well. for me, however, dexedrin looses its pro social effect within a couple days. others have problems with insomnia, loss of appetite, tolerance... but really, the shit talk about stimulants in general greatly exceeds the real problems they cause. i cant really comment on klonopin, as i have never tried it. but it usually works from what i understand, and side effects and tolerance are not very big problems for most people. one problem here, good luck getting your doc to prescribe you both these substances at once. (even one can be hard.)
myself, i have been much to shy all my life and stims and benzos are not able to give me consistent results. there seems to be different sub types of social anxiety. some have social anxiety just at certain events or places, while others have chronic social anxiety. some people respond well to ssri's(probably zoloft and prozac would be best to make you more chatty) others respond to maoi's (nardil is possibly the most effective med out there, but most side effects and interactions too) many others like the french stims called adrafinil and provigil. apparently they can make people much more talkative and energetic. a handful of people get good results from wellbutrin, reboxetine, and other antidepressants. myself, i have had no response to any of the prievious meds. not to bring you down as you may very well respond to something on this list. i really believe that my social anxiety is centered on life long dopamine hypofunction. low self esteem, negative thinking, timidity, low energy, attention problems, and lack of motivation have dominated my life ever since i was a little kid. amisulpride is a very promising yet little known of dopaminergic med not available in north america. i hope to try it soon.
i know i sound like i only blaim social interaction problems on biological systems, but with so little talk about this available anywhere else, that is why my post only consists of that portion. good luck
jon
Posted by jay on May 12, 2002, at 17:24:15
In reply to Zoloft 100mg or Prozac 20+mg or Dexedrine+Klonopin, posted by 3 Beer Effect on May 12, 2002, at 5:03:27
Posted by jay on May 12, 2002, at 17:32:45
In reply to The best drug to make you more chatty, posted by janejj on May 11, 2002, at 17:32:53
> Hi everyone,
>
> Which is the best drug to take to make you more chatty ???? Otherwise I think I'll lose my job, which will do wonders for my self esteem and depression.
>
> janejjI think what is needed is to look more at your Dx, and symptoms. Quick fixes just won't hold permanently. If social withdrawl and anxiety are symptoms, and you switch or cycle through these, again I would highly suggest looking at a possible BP2 Dx, and to 'even' you out (not make more or less chatty...that is not really a psychiatric problem), a combination of possibly a few mood stabalizers and an antidepressant will likely help. I am honestly very suspicious of quick fixes.
Best wishes..
Jay
Posted by mist on May 12, 2002, at 20:06:35
In reply to The best drug to make you more chatty, posted by janejj on May 11, 2002, at 17:32:53
L-tyrosine
Klonopinmade me more talkative and outgoing
Posted by geno on May 12, 2002, at 20:22:57
In reply to Re: The best drug to make you more chatty, posted by mist on May 12, 2002, at 20:06:35
When i comes to this subject, 3 beers is a savior. He knows what hes talking about. I tried every dam med and still no luck. note iv been on ghb, which is probably the top in alieving social phobia, anxiety and depresion(short term), although illegal, and additive.
Coming off ghb, is very bad. You dont even wanna talk to yourself!!!!!! Its worse than alochol in relation to social phobia.
Iv concluded that the high dose of benzodiazapine (no more than 1mg of klonopin or .5mg of xanax at a time), Zoloft at 100mg over 1 month, adderal or dexadrine.
I also take remeron, which doesnt do anything for social phobia, but for me, regulats my poor sleep, thus waking up refreshed for the next day. Some users cannot take remeron, due to excess sedation. Iv used norepinephrine meds such as desiprmaine, but doesnt give me a social lift.
3 beers is so right when it comes to social phobia, anxiety meds. iv come to this:Remeron 30mg ( great for sleep, next day anxiety)
klonopin 1mg or xanax.5mg ( lessenes anxiety)
Dexadrine/adderal ( stimulant without excessvie anxiety
zoloft 100mg ( great antidpressant, lowers anxietyGive these meds 1 month to kick in.
although ghb and alcohol are far best social inhibitor, there addictive and illegal, esp ghb. also, you would have to drink 2 beers every darn hour or take 2g of ghb every hour to keep the required buzz.
Posted by Krazy Kat on May 12, 2002, at 20:29:24
In reply to Shouldn't be looking for 'chatty' drug... » janejj, posted by jay on May 12, 2002, at 17:32:45
Posted by jay on May 13, 2002, at 0:08:05
In reply to i agree - where have you been? (nm) » jay, posted by Krazy Kat on May 12, 2002, at 20:29:24
I am sorry KK, and to all, as I went through a bit of a nasty manic phase a few weeks ago (on pb-admin), ranting about the 2000-2001 boards, and I felt quite bad afterwards. I know this should be on social bable, but will switch it over as needed. I also miss going to pb open, and will return soon. Right now, I am self-treating the manic phase of my depression with heavy benzo use and the very sedating doxepin, while using Effexor to boost me up. It is just a very quick fix, as I am to the doctor this week and am likely going on *two* mood stabalizers, a.d., plus a benzo. It has worked before.Anyhow....thank you for the concern...tonight I nearly fell to tears just because I couldn't get the wrapper off a candy...heh. Hopefully talk to you and all on pb open, or psb....thanks again.:-)
Jay
Posted by IsoM on May 13, 2002, at 14:45:26
In reply to The best drug to make you more chatty, posted by janejj on May 11, 2002, at 17:32:53
Jane, I've read a lot of the responses & I'm curious if you've decided yet. As Sid, said, it depends on what your true nature is. I'm very talkative, but have enough common sense to shut up when needed or wanted by others. Quiet sorts find me easy to be around, they tell me.
If you're a quiet, introspected sort by nature, perhaps the company values you enough to give you a somewhat diff job position to make full use of your abilities.
I'm curious to what you've decided to do. Remember all my adrafinil posts? I still think it does marvelous as a social phobia drug for many.
Posted by IsoM on May 13, 2002, at 14:48:36
In reply to The best drug to make you more chatty, posted by janejj on May 11, 2002, at 17:32:53
Just wanted to mention that my son is very happy with Dexedrine & doesn't want to mess things up trying any new meds (my adrafinil). He's VERY quiet by nature but needs to deal with clients all the time with software development. I don't think he could if it wasn't for Dexedrine. Each weekend, he gives it a holiday & has been using it for 3-4 years, no problem.
Posted by manowar on May 14, 2002, at 13:22:29
In reply to The best drug to make you more chatty, posted by janejj on May 11, 2002, at 17:32:53
I prefer the Ritalin (Methylphenidate) type drugs (Concerta, Ritalin, Focalin, etc...) over Adderall or Dexadrine. They seemed to worsen my depression.
Posted by janejj on May 14, 2002, at 16:08:48
In reply to test (nm), posted by janejj on May 14, 2002, at 15:58:02
Hi, i keep trying to reply to everyone, and everytime I write a message my stupid laptop just gets rid of my message when I'm trying to post it. AGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. OK will try and write when this stupid piece of junk decides to work.
Janjj
Hopefully this will not get lost, I can't bear to write it out again !
Posted by JohnX2 on May 14, 2002, at 18:10:11
In reply to I am trying to Respond to all !, posted by janejj on May 14, 2002, at 16:08:48
> Hi, i keep trying to reply to everyone, and everytime I write a message my stupid laptop just gets rid of my message when I'm trying to post it. AGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. OK will try and write when this stupid piece of junk decides to work.
> Janjj
> Hopefully this will not get lost, I can't bear to write it out again !This annoys the crap out of me too. Not good for my
Klonopin supply.If things are flaky, I will type a longer response
in a Wordpad or Notepad file first, and save it.
Then I just cut-n-paste as I *try* to submit.John
Posted by janejj on May 16, 2002, at 16:36:00
In reply to Re: I am trying to Respond to all ! » janejj, posted by JohnX2 on May 14, 2002, at 18:10:11
Hi,
Thanks to everyone who responded. Well the situation at work has got better, it was my first week and I was really nervous around everybody. I feel like I am more settled now.
The stimulants sound like a good idea, but I'm sure that I would have a very hard time persuading my doc to precribe them, unless I make up some fake symptoms( is that what people do ?). I am already taking 50 mg Prozac, which doesn't really seem to have a pro social effect on me, although I feel contented most of the time.
I have Ativan, but Klonopin(sp?) sounds like It might be more effective because of its longer half life. Does it make you sleepy ? When I take Ativan I fall asleep !
L-Tryosin sounds interesting ! How would this react with Prozac, Trazodone, Ativan and B complex vitamins ?
Pleeasseeeee God let this post!!!!
Thanks Janejj
Posted by janejj on May 16, 2002, at 16:46:57
In reply to Have you decided yet?... » janejj, posted by IsoM on May 13, 2002, at 14:45:26
Hello Iso,
I'm wondering what you take the adrafinil for ? You don't have to answer. Just seeing whether I could get it prescribed to me ! I'm glad that you finally got yours !! I guess that you will be going back to the old online pharmacy !
I am in between quiet and extroverted. I am v. chatty with friends, but it takes me a while to warm up to people. I also have days where I just can't be bothered to talk and I'm very quiet. Hope i don't have a dual personality . People tend to think I'm cryptic, but I don't think so !
Regards
Janejj
Posted by IsoM on May 16, 2002, at 19:31:28
In reply to Re: Have you decided yet?... » IsoM, posted by janejj on May 16, 2002, at 16:46:57
I can be quite talkative most times, but I need serious quiet time alone & some days, like you, while I still feel happy, I'm just not talkative. I like to think of it as a varied personality - never dull. Some of us just need to regroup from too much social stimulation.
Adrafinil isn't prescribed for me - it's not a prescription drug in Europe but is only available there, not in North America. I have narcolepsy (but not so severe that I fall over asleep while standing up) that interferes with my daily activity. If I'm not continuously active, I'll want to sleep & even then I'll crave my bed desperately. I can be working hard & active & yawn & yawn till the tears are running down my face & my nose is all congested. That can go on most of the day. I also have ADHD & mild/moderate depression. Adrafinil looks after all those problems for me, but not all people benefit from it like I do. I do know that Iago Camboa enjoys its benefits like I do.
When I've taken Ativan, it just puts me to sleep too, but Xanax (alprazolam) doesn't - it relaxes me, but others experience just the opposite. Each med can affect different people so differently.
I've never exaggerated or lied about how I've felt to doctors but it can be hard to find a doctor who believes you without thinking you are making it up. That's why I can't bother arguing the issue & just order my adrafinil on-line. I never expected to receive the other benefits I do from it - I was just looking for something to keep me awake.
Posted by mist on May 16, 2002, at 22:41:25
In reply to Response and more Q's, posted by janejj on May 16, 2002, at 16:36:00
> L-Tryosin sounds interesting ! How would this react with Prozac, Trazodone, Ativan and B complex vitamins ?
Unfortunately I don't know the answer to this except that you are supposed to take it with B vitamins. I just took L-tyrosine by itself (except for the usual B vitamins I take anyway). It worked like a stimulant for me. It took roughly 5-7 days to begin to feel its effects. I only took it for a week each time though. Don't know if it would have the same effect over a longer period of time.
Posted by mist on May 16, 2002, at 22:54:34
In reply to Re: Response and more Q's, posted by mist on May 16, 2002, at 22:41:25
I meant to say I took L-tyrosine for another week *after* its effects kicked in (which took about a week), so it was a total of about two weeks both times I tried it. -mist
> > L-Tryosin sounds interesting ! How would this react with Prozac, Trazodone, Ativan and B complex vitamins ?
>
> Unfortunately I don't know the answer to this except that you are supposed to take it with B vitamins. I just took L-tyrosine by itself (except for the usual B vitamins I take anyway). It worked like a stimulant for me. It took roughly 5-7 days to begin to feel its effects. I only took it for a week each time though. Don't know if it would have the same effect over a longer period of time.
Posted by Zo on May 18, 2002, at 3:57:50
In reply to Re: Have you decided yet?... » IsoM, posted by janejj on May 16, 2002, at 16:46:57
This is the end of the thread.
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