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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 6 of 6. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Geno on April 30, 2002, at 16:27:45
Ok, what i gather from ghb, is when you ingest it, it temporarily raises seratonin levels. Then when it wears off, it returns to normal, unlike alcohol, it doesnt deplete it. It also creates dopamine, due to rebound effect. also gaba enhancement, via gaba b. You are right about baclofen, a gaba b enhancer. GHB for unknow reason, creates a substance called oxytocin in the brain, which is responsible for social states. Its funny how dose dependand g is. Just the right dose, makes one feel great. Just a litle more, good night. this is due to dopamine suppression, and gaba.
Now my question to you is. Iv been on zoloft 50mg for 2 weeks. Also been taking that small .25 xanax with it. Iv been steady, not sleepy, nor anxious. No mood improvement, only slighty, VERY slightly more talkative. Then i take .5mg to 1mg of klonopin at noon which takes me into the night, then remeron at bedtime 11pm.
Should i up the zoloft to 75mg and take .5mg of xanax? i know that ittybitty dose of .25 wont help. When you mean activaton, do you mean like stimulated feeling, due to the dopamine reuptake. I have a great book, called psychotropic drugs. it breaks down the drugs and receptors. IT SHOWS, welbutrin has dopamine reptake THE SAME score as zoloft at high doses. MMMM
Also, did your sex drive improve at 75-100mg doses? DId you just start at 75 when you started?
geno
Posted by jay on April 30, 2002, at 19:23:59
In reply to ZOLOFT{{{{{{ TO 3 BEERS, posted by Geno on April 30, 2002, at 16:27:45
Geno, I was on Zoloft for about two years, so I hope I can help. I honestly think that in your situation, the Zoloft+benzo (whichever one) is *the* most powerful combination. I would say up the benzo a bit more, and attempt between 75-100 mg's on the Zoloft. Just make sure you go VERY slow. I must emphasize though, keep the benzo dose high, as that caps the anxiety Zoloft causes. When you get the right mix, I found it excellent, but it took a very particular mix...it may be a bit different for you, so toy around with the mix. BTW...Benzo's work very differently then the mood stabalizers on GABA. So, no, Neurontin et al does not have near the same effect as benzos.Trust me, I have spent many years toying with benzos and a.d's, tried all the other crap, and these two (a.d. + benzo) still treat most psychiatric conditions very well. (All range of depressive and anxiety disorders.)
Good luck
Jay
P.S. Don't count on Zoloft's dopamine properties too much. Even if it does bind fairly strong to dopamine at high doses, the excessive serotonin stimulation will lower it's dopamine properties greatly.
> Ok, what i gather from ghb, is when you ingest it, it temporarily raises seratonin levels. Then when it wears off, it returns to normal, unlike alcohol, it doesnt deplete it. It also creates dopamine, due to rebound effect. also gaba enhancement, via gaba b. You are right about baclofen, a gaba b enhancer. GHB for unknow reason, creates a substance called oxytocin in the brain, which is responsible for social states. Its funny how dose dependand g is. Just the right dose, makes one feel great. Just a litle more, good night. this is due to dopamine suppression, and gaba.
>
> Now my question to you is. Iv been on zoloft 50mg for 2 weeks. Also been taking that small .25 xanax with it. Iv been steady, not sleepy, nor anxious. No mood improvement, only slighty, VERY slightly more talkative. Then i take .5mg to 1mg of klonopin at noon which takes me into the night, then remeron at bedtime 11pm.
>
> Should i up the zoloft to 75mg and take .5mg of xanax? i know that ittybitty dose of .25 wont help. When you mean activaton, do you mean like stimulated feeling, due to the dopamine reuptake. I have a great book, called psychotropic drugs. it breaks down the drugs and receptors. IT SHOWS, welbutrin has dopamine reptake THE SAME score as zoloft at high doses. MMMM
>
> Also, did your sex drive improve at 75-100mg doses? DId you just start at 75 when you started?
>
> geno
Posted by 3 Beer Effect on April 30, 2002, at 23:38:16
In reply to ZOLOFT{{{{{{ TO 3 BEERS, posted by Geno on April 30, 2002, at 16:27:45
I originally took Zoloft 50 mg/day which made me very sleepy- I would almost get 'knocked out' every time I took it & it didn't seem to work at all as an anti-depressant, so after 3 months I stopped taking it.
The next time I tried it about 6 months later at 100 mg in the morning. The anti-depressant effects took about 3-4 weeks to kick in but it is the best anti-depressant I have ever taken. It made me extremely sociable, even with strangers, to the point of changing my whole personality from a shy introvert to a confident extrovert. It is the best social disinhibitor i've ever taken, almost as good as alcohol- it is similar to a 2 beer effect 24 hours a day.
It had an activating effect for me to where I had energy to get up and do things all the time, all day long, but without anxiety or nervousness around people- kind of like Dexedrine but not as potent in activation & no nervousness or anxiety around others. Caffeine potentiates this activating effect and may push it from comfortable into nervousness/wired territory.
As far as sexual side effects it doesn't seem to cause impotence atleast in younger males, but merely prolongs (a great deal) the time to orgasm, but the orgasms do seem more intense. I am 23 & I think I went from between 7-15 minute man, to 30 minutes to an hour man. That porn-star like staying power is probably great if you are dating a woman over 30, but college girls aren't as comfortable with themselves & can get quite impatient/annoyed.
After about 3 months, Zoloft did cause quite bad insomnia for me, which my psychiatrist could have fixed with Klonopin or Ambien, but he insisted that I only take the Zoloft. He is no longer my psychiatrist- The lack of sleep led to lapses in judgement, drinking & taking Benadryl in order to ease the insomnia (alcohol & Zoloft are a very bad combination) and eventually led to a full blown zoloft-induced manic episode.
Looking back, I probably should have taken 75 mgs of Zoloft with 1-2 mg of Klonopin in the day & Ambien at night. Zoloft at 75 mg probably wouldn't have caused the bad insomnia & eventual mania I had at 100 mg, & at 75 mg Zoloft is still supposed to be activating & work well. My sister was on 75 mg of Zoloft for a long time, & did very well on it with some but mostly moderate sleep disturbance.
But everyone is different, & some people take up to 200 mg of Zoloft/day with no problems. Remeron at night would overpower any Zoloft induced insomnia & would lessen the sexual side effects, but for me Remeron flattens my mood (basically making me feel worse than nothing at all during the day- kind of like I had been popping Benadryl pills all night & all day long).
Prozac has very similar anti-depressant & social enhancing/disinhibiting effects to Zoloft in many patients, as anyone who has read the book "listening to Prozac" will attest to. It may be even more activating especially since the starting dose of 20 mg is equal to about 80 mg of Zoloft, which is probably why many people don't do well on the starting dose of 50 mg Zoloft- Pfizer screwed up by making the starting dose too low- it should have been 75 mg. But Prozac arguably has worse side effects, especially anxiety/nervousness as compared to Zoloft.
Posted by rainbowlight on May 1, 2002, at 1:46:49
In reply to re: my 6 months on Zoloft 100 mg, posted by 3 Beer Effect on April 30, 2002, at 23:38:16
Thanks!
Posted by johnj on May 1, 2002, at 9:24:52
In reply to Thanks for the support and info, posted by rainbowlight on May 1, 2002, at 1:46:49
I have added remeron to my mix about 10 weeks ago and just felt zoned or spaced out when I went from 30 to 45 mg. I loved the sleep, but short term memory is bad and I am foggy still at 15 mg. How did you get off of the remeron? I am unipolar and feeling really shity right now at 15 mg of remeron, when I tried 7.5 for sleep I felt sedated and depressed all day even after sleeping 10 hours. I have severe insomnia with my depression and have read been reading with interest about Celexa and Zoloft. Did the zoloft hurt your ability to concentrate? I am on nortryptline right now and it isn't cutting it. If I raise my dose the side effects are horrible (I am only on 50 mg a day, and am med sensitive). I am not sure how to handle the med switch without feeling like total crap. I am at a big crossroads. Thanks
Johnj
Posted by geno on May 1, 2002, at 15:59:40
In reply to Remeron question (3 Beers), posted by johnj on May 1, 2002, at 9:24:52
3 beers,
I take remeron at 30mg at night to get a good 8hrs sleep. With out it, my only other choice is ambien 10mg, then 10mg when i wake up again 4 hrs later. I may switch over to such.
Remeron does make me eat like a pig. It may be coutneracting some off zolofts anxiety or nausea effects. Im 2 weeks into zoloft 50mg, with .25 xanax. Im like level. No anxiety, no sedation, no mood improvement.
I want to up my zoloft dose, but my stupid pdoc is out of town, so i dont think .25mg of xanax will help with the upped dose. If could maybe dump the xanax, and take 1mg of klonopin in the am, then another 1mg in the pm, but my "side script of klonopin wont last. If i get my doc to back up the xanax to .5mg with 75mg of zoloft in the am, should be fine. Then six hours later when the xanax starts to wear off, take the other 1mg of klonopin. Then at 11pm, ill take the remeron.The other reason i like remeron and need it, is because like i said me sitting around at night, being bored and lonely, i take the g to socialize. when i stop the g at 10pm, the rebound dopamine sets in and remeron is very much needed for sleep. Like i said, i have ambien but only 30 10mg for the month, so 20mg a night wont last. So i have to remain on remeron until i could get my pdoc or a doc to give me more ambien or xanax.
I think with zoloft, at 75 or 100mg, the dopamine reuptake kicks in, causing the activating effect. Plus You stated your climax is improved which is what i need. I cant climax on zoloft or it takes forever. even on remeron it still hinders sex drive a bit at 30mg.
another plan is to up the remeron to 45mg with 10mg of ambien to fall asleep. then take 75mg of zoloft with .5mg of xanax in the morning, and 1mg of klonopin in the evening, thus dropping all g or alcohol. ANother example is at night, when i take remeron, for the first 30min, i feel sedated and bit more relaxed and social. then 45min later i feel really tired and fall asleep. I dream vividly all dam night! i may give zoloft another 5 days then monday up it to 75mg, my pdoc is back monday , ill call him and say im having panic attacts, please up the xanax dose.
geno
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