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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Bekka H. on April 20, 2002, at 17:49:24
Hi everyone,
Do any of you think that antidepressants don't really "kick in" until you've done your aerobic exercise? I often feel that way. The meds may work a little bit (i.e., they work enough to get me to begin exercising), but they seem to work much better AFTER I've exercised vigorously for at least 30-40 minutes.
I read that phenylacetic acid, a byproduct of phenylethylamine (PEA), is increased by as much as 70 times in people who exercise vigorously. Phenylethylamine is the antidepressant-like substance that is in chocolate! It is similar to amphetamines. I guess it would be easier to eat chocolate all day than to exercise, but I feel much better after exercising than I do after eating chocolate. I do think that the PEA plus whatever antidepressant I'm on must work synergistically. What do you think?
Bekka
Posted by beardedlady on April 20, 2002, at 19:14:28
In reply to Medications and Exercise, posted by Bekka H. on April 20, 2002, at 17:49:24
Exercise ALONE works that way. Maybe you feel better simply because exercise works. They say it is the number one thing you can do to find relief from symptoms of depression.
joggin' beardy : )>
Posted by IsoM on April 21, 2002, at 0:33:11
In reply to Re: Medications and Exercise, posted by beardedlady on April 20, 2002, at 19:14:28
Yep, exercise works, period. Just sometimes it's very hard to get yourself going without an external push. Exercise on its own gives me a real mental/emotional boost but only lasts for a few hours after I've stopped, even if done day after day. That's why I need something other than exercise alone. If it would work alone, I'd be more than satisfied with keeping active instead of meds.
Posted by beardedlady on April 21, 2002, at 5:44:19
In reply to Re: Medications and Exercise, posted by IsoM on April 21, 2002, at 0:33:11
Posted by BarbaraCat on April 22, 2002, at 13:35:29
In reply to Medications and Exercise, posted by Bekka H. on April 20, 2002, at 17:49:24
Yes, absolutely, ADs are for me a means to enable myself to partake in exercise - the best antidepressant on earth. My depression always has a stuck energy, sludgy life force quality. When I'm really down and not on ADs, my body feels like it's seized up, viscous and brittle and I just don't have the will power or clear thinking to get it together. ADs help me past that point, but like you said, the movement helps the ADS, so it's truly a synergistic thing. I like to dance the best, but this time of year, gardening is so wonderful. - Barbara
Posted by johnj on April 22, 2002, at 18:34:14
In reply to Re: Medications and Exercise - without a doubt! » Bekka H., posted by BarbaraCat on April 22, 2002, at 13:35:29
aerobically I feel like hell and don't sleep as well. It doesn't matter what time of day I excercise either. But, lifting weights helps me feel better. I think it is the AD or lithium combo??
Posted by LynnPerley on April 22, 2002, at 21:12:46
In reply to Medications and Exercise, posted by Bekka H. on April 20, 2002, at 17:49:24
I'm just about to test this theory. I think exercise is the only thing that helped me get through the last four years. It really is the best natural antidepressant around. I felt better about myself and I had a much ahppier outlook on life once I began lifting weights, and then I added aerobic exercise later. Things finally got so bad I went to a counselor and then started meds. Due to life's busyness unrelated to the meds I have not exercised much since I started taking the meds. However, I've been on Effexor XR for almost six weeks and I confess I have lacked motivation to exercise. Tomorrow night is the first Tuesday I have had the chance to go to my "regular" aerobics class since I started these meds - so I'll keep you posted.
Posted by BarbaraCat on April 22, 2002, at 21:34:24
In reply to Re: Medications and Exercise, posted by LynnPerley on April 22, 2002, at 21:12:46
Good luck and you know what they say - Just Do It! One thing I've found really helps is having weights, videos, workout stuff here at home. I can just roll out of bed and do something and that usually gets me going. If there's any obstacle in my path, like tying my shoes, or getting in the car and driving somewhere, I can make all kinds of excuses. But if I just do something to get moving I can usually overcome the lethargy. You go, girl!
> I'm just about to test this theory. I think exercise is the only thing that helped me get through the last four years. It really is the best natural antidepressant around. I felt better about myself and I had a much ahppier outlook on life once I began lifting weights, and then I added aerobic exercise later. Things finally got so bad I went to a counselor and then started meds. Due to life's busyness unrelated to the meds I have not exercised much since I started taking the meds. However, I've been on Effexor XR for almost six weeks and I confess I have lacked motivation to exercise. Tomorrow night is the first Tuesday I have had the chance to go to my "regular" aerobics class since I started these meds - so I'll keep you posted.
Posted by Bekka H. on April 22, 2002, at 22:18:00
In reply to I am on nortryptiline and when I excercise, posted by johnj on April 22, 2002, at 18:34:14
> aerobically I feel like hell and don't sleep as well. It doesn't matter what time of day I excercise either. But, lifting weights helps me feel better. I think it is the AD or lithium combo??
**********************************************
Hi John,
Do you feel well at other times? You said weight-lifting feels good. What about the rest of the day? What do you think of the med combo you're taking?
Bekka
Posted by pedr on April 23, 2002, at 7:39:26
In reply to Medications and Exercise, posted by Bekka H. on April 20, 2002, at 17:49:24
Bekka,
I generally find that I'm better for about half an hour to an hour after cycling home from work. Then my mood dives down to where it was before the excercise.
I agree with beardedlady [great name b.t.w.] that it's nothing to do with augmenting the AD or acting as some kind of catalyst. Lots of "healthy" [read: not depressed] people get physically addicted to doing weights/aerobics because of the high they get from enorphins released by the body during exercise.Cheerio,
pete
Posted by johnj on April 23, 2002, at 20:15:20
In reply to I am on nortryptiline and when I excercise-johnj, posted by Bekka H. on April 22, 2002, at 22:18:00
I feel pretty well when I don't excercise, but I want to keep in good shape. I never feel bad when I excercise it is later, and usually comes with sleep disturbance. I don't think the pamelor is something I want to stay on. I can't go up beyond 50 mg or the side effects get worse. The remeron has been great for sleep(usually), but at any higher dose and I am totally spaced out. Do you take remeron?
John
Posted by BarbaraCat on April 23, 2002, at 21:18:35
In reply to Re: I am on nortryptiline and when I excerc--Bekka, posted by johnj on April 23, 2002, at 20:15:20
Hi John,
This is Barbara. I take Remeron at 45 mg. I only feel spaced out when I try to get up early in the morning. But if I force myself, have a cup of coffee, I'm usually ready to go within 20 minutes. About the exercise, I can give my experiences. I have fibromyalgia which makes exercising challenging because the body doesn't recover easily. If I do something where my muscles get a workout I'm sore much longer than normal and I'm also totally wiped out for a few days afterwards. But I have to force myself anyway because if I don't get exercise it's like a car that doesn't get oil. I feel like I seize up. I also get much lower energy level. Stretching is good, so I do yoga and general stretches. Fibromyalgia also affects the sleep cycle in that it's hard to get a restful, stage 4 sleep where all the muscle recovery goes on. I'm not indicating that you have fibromyalgia (you DON'T want it!), however if any of your medications are interfering with stage 4 sleep, you'll experience many of the same symptoms as fibro and this may well explain the exericise challenges you're having. - BCat. > I feel pretty well when I don't excercise, but I want to keep in good shape. I never feel bad when I excercise it is later, and usually comes with sleep disturbance. I don't think the pamelor is something I want to stay on. I can't go up beyond 50 mg or the side effects get worse. The remeron has been great for sleep(usually), but at any higher dose and I am totally spaced out. Do you take remeron?
> John
Posted by omega man on May 4, 2002, at 12:58:10
In reply to Medications and Exercise, posted by Bekka H. on April 20, 2002, at 17:49:24
I went out clubbin on effexor and omega 3 last night....the deep physical experience helps tie mind and body together thru the trunk and spine...
Posted by Cybele on March 16, 2004, at 15:35:26
In reply to Medications and Exercise, posted by Bekka H. on April 20, 2002, at 17:49:24
Here's an article about the study cited in the original post:
http://www.reactivereports.com/21/21_1.html
So far, aerobic exercise (e.g., elliptical 12-14 calories/minute for 45-50 minutes; walk/run for 40 minutes; or spinning class) is the only thing that has ever worked for me. I am taking an AD (WB), but it doesn't seem to be doing anything as the only days I feel good are the days I exercise.
From the linked article:
The team found that phenylacetic acid increased by 77% after exercise, although how much it rose after exercise varied considerably among the volunteers (from between 14 and 572% than on the day before in 18 of the 20 men). Three of the volunteers rated the exercise as hard, and the highest rises in phenylacetic acid were seen in two of them.
END OF QUOTE
I am positive I am one of those ~600% responders. I'd love to submit myself as a subject for studies on this. I've done a mood diary and the difference before exercise and after is night and day. In fact, once I start sweating I can feel my brain starting to work right again. On days off exercise I start on a decline. I had to take a week off recently when I was sick, and I slid right back down, day by day. If I exercise 4x a week steadily for months, then I no longer have the decline on days off.
Bioevolutionarily speaking, I think I'm just meant to be a hunter-gatherer, not a computer nerd.
This is the end of the thread.
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