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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by JohnX2 on March 21, 2002, at 13:44:33
what the heck is this light switch that people talk about?I think I felt it three times. 2 times on St. John's Wort and once on Wellbutrin. Both times in an instance my mood lifted and I had a sense of well being that accompanied a feeling of security
and serenity. I also felt more connected with people. This poops out in hours or days.Besides that everything else has been pretty much a free-for-all agitated "speed" like feelings of euphoria/dysphoria etc/mixed states..whatever, you name it.
The Lamictal and Serzone seem to have the tide roll in slowly so to speak in terms of helping the depression. Plop on some more mood stabilizers and things aint that bad.
So I never have gotton back to this "light switch on" state. I feel better. i.e. not depressed, and occasional I get this euphoric rush. But I wouldn't say I feel "complete" by any means. Am I missing the boat here?
What about these MAOIs? Would they give a different sort of response that I am missing out on? Like maybe I would hook into that light switch thingy?
My depression symptoms are atypical when not severe.
BTW, atypical depression seems like typical depression doesn't it?
John
Posted by jay on March 21, 2002, at 16:11:45
In reply to that light switch? MAOIs etc, posted by JohnX2 on March 21, 2002, at 13:44:33
>
> what the heck is this light switch that people talk about?
>
> I think I felt it three times. 2 times on St. John's Wort and once on Wellbutrin. Both times in an instance my mood lifted and I had a sense of well being that accompanied a feeling of security
> and serenity. I also felt more connected with people. This poops out in hours or days.
>
> Besides that everything else has been pretty much a free-for-all agitated "speed" like feelings of euphoria/dysphoria etc/mixed states..whatever, you name it.
>
> The Lamictal and Serzone seem to have the tide roll in slowly so to speak in terms of helping the depression. Plop on some more mood stabilizers and things aint that bad.
>
> So I never have gotton back to this "light switch on" state. I feel better. i.e. not depressed, and occasional I get this euphoric rush. But I wouldn't say I feel "complete" by any means. Am I missing the boat here?
>
> What about these MAOIs? Would they give a different sort of response that I am missing out on? Like maybe I would hook into that light switch thingy?
>
> My depression symptoms are atypical when not severe.
>
> BTW, atypical depression seems like typical depression doesn't it?
>
> JohnJohn, I think it's just the 'sync' of it all, really! Chemicals, receptors, PLUS, your own cognitive perception of it all (which is really f*&ked in depression, mania, etc..). There is of course a hell of a lot more to it, more than I think we could ever understand, but I myself feel it's important to add the cognitive part to the biological. I don't want to get into any arguments about therapy or anything, it's just my .02 cents. :-)
Jay
Posted by JohnX2 on March 21, 2002, at 17:01:17
In reply to Re: that light switch? MAOIs etc » JohnX2, posted by jay on March 21, 2002, at 16:11:45
Thanks. I do feel there are important psychological ramifications that therapy can address for certain individuals (like me). No argument there. But some times I just don't "get it" despite therapy. Sometimes on meds, something snaps and I "get it". Can't quite explain "it". ;)Regards
John> >
> > what the heck is this light switch that people talk about?
> >
> > I think I felt it three times. 2 times on St. John's Wort and once on Wellbutrin. Both times in an instance my mood lifted and I had a sense of well being that accompanied a feeling of security
> > and serenity. I also felt more connected with people. This poops out in hours or days.
> >
> > Besides that everything else has been pretty much a free-for-all agitated "speed" like feelings of euphoria/dysphoria etc/mixed states..whatever, you name it.
> >
> > The Lamictal and Serzone seem to have the tide roll in slowly so to speak in terms of helping the depression. Plop on some more mood stabilizers and things aint that bad.
> >
> > So I never have gotton back to this "light switch on" state. I feel better. i.e. not depressed, and occasional I get this euphoric rush. But I wouldn't say I feel "complete" by any means. Am I missing the boat here?
> >
> > What about these MAOIs? Would they give a different sort of response that I am missing out on? Like maybe I would hook into that light switch thingy?
> >
> > My depression symptoms are atypical when not severe.
> >
> > BTW, atypical depression seems like typical depression doesn't it?
> >
> > John
>
> John, I think it's just the 'sync' of it all, really! Chemicals, receptors, PLUS, your own cognitive perception of it all (which is really f*&ked in depression, mania, etc..). There is of course a hell of a lot more to it, more than I think we could ever understand, but I myself feel it's important to add the cognitive part to the biological. I don't want to get into any arguments about therapy or anything, it's just my .02 cents. :-)
>
> Jay
Posted by Lia Mason on March 22, 2002, at 21:54:25
In reply to that light switch? MAOIs etc, posted by JohnX2 on March 21, 2002, at 13:44:33
For what it's worth... I had that "light switch feeling" twice--the first time I took Prozac and with Parnate also which I stopped within days due to side effects.
For me, though, the "light switch" was a false, nearly hypomanic thing--very nice, but not real in the final analysis. I had a therapist call it "flight into health". I felt suddenly light and energized and compelled to call everyone and do everything I hadn't done in so long. And that ended within a few days. I'm not sure the med pooped out so much as reality set in. You come out of a depression and, ultimately, have to face the consequences of that depression--the lost time, relationships, etc--which is hard. But there is that window of relief before reality that is great.
It's kind of (I think) like people I've seen give up drinking. It's not that hard at first. They're firm in their conviction, energized by the newness and the drama. It's only later that it gets hard. That's the psych side. On the bio side, I firmly believe some people get hypomanic with these meds before they settle into working the way they're supposed to.
Don't get me wrong--med poop out is real. Prozac broke my heart over and over again. What I'm talking about is more new med honeymoon flush which I think is different--unrealistic and necessarily fleeting.
Or maybe I'm full of it, but that's my hypothesis after 15 years of riding the pharmaceutical rollercoaster.
L
Posted by JohnX2 on March 22, 2002, at 23:15:34
In reply to Re: that light switch? MAOIs etc, posted by Lia Mason on March 22, 2002, at 21:54:25
> For what it's worth... I had that "light switch feeling" twice--the first time I took Prozac and with Parnate also which I stopped within days due to side effects.
>
> For me, though, the "light switch" was a false, nearly hypomanic thing--very nice, but not real in the final analysis. I had a therapist call it "flight into health". I felt suddenly light and energized and compelled to call everyone and do everything I hadn't done in so long. And that ended within a few days. I'm not sure the med pooped out so much as reality set in. You come out of a depression and, ultimately, have to face the consequences of that depression--the lost time, relationships, etc--which is hard. But there is that window of relief before reality that is great.
>
> It's kind of (I think) like people I've seen give up drinking. It's not that hard at first. They're firm in their conviction, energized by the newness and the drama. It's only later that it gets hard. That's the psych side. On the bio side, I firmly believe some people get hypomanic with these meds before they settle into working the way they're supposed to.
>
> Don't get me wrong--med poop out is real. Prozac broke my heart over and over again. What I'm talking about is more new med honeymoon flush which I think is different--unrealistic and necessarily fleeting.
>
> Or maybe I'm full of it, but that's my hypothesis after 15 years of riding the pharmaceutical rollercoaster.
>
> L
No, I think you really bring up some good points.I've had med poop out that is real in the pharmacological sense, but also in the psychological sense you bring up.
When we are at the end of the rope, we are just focusing on getting our life recovered (i.e. staying alive). When this happens we are elated and get a short lived rush, feeling of relief, etc. Ultimately we face the backlog of damage the horrible disorder has left us and this just brings us back to earth (with more anxiety and a chance of slipping up again). Bummer.
Thanks for your insight.
Best of health.
John
Posted by Cindylou on March 24, 2002, at 14:40:24
In reply to Re: that light switch? MAOIs etc, posted by Lia Mason on March 22, 2002, at 21:54:25
Lia,
Your post is very intriguing to me. Talk about Prozac breaking your heart ... mine too ... "over and over again."I have been a regular poster here for about a year, but took a month or so "psychobabble hiatus." I don't recall reading your posts before ...
I'm wondering what, if any, meds you are on now, and if they are working for you??
I've tried them all (SSRIs, tricyclics, stimulants, APs, and combos of these) -- except for MAOIs and most mood stabilizers. Currently I am taking 75 mg. Lamictal, and I've been trying to add Prozac but can only tolerate ridiculously low doses (2 mg!!) -- and then, I can only tolerate that for a few days. I am eerily med-sensitive.
Prozac HAS worked for me in the past, but it "crashes" on me after two months. I've tried it 3 times over the span of about 10 years, and every time, it worked great, then crashed on me after 2 months.
Thanks for listening ... look forward to hearing what has worked/is working for you ...
cindy> For what it's worth... I had that "light switch feeling" twice--the first time I took Prozac and with Parnate also which I stopped within days due to side effects.
>
> For me, though, the "light switch" was a false, nearly hypomanic thing--very nice, but not real in the final analysis. I had a therapist call it "flight into health". I felt suddenly light and energized and compelled to call everyone and do everything I hadn't done in so long. And that ended within a few days. I'm not sure the med pooped out so much as reality set in. You come out of a depression and, ultimately, have to face the consequences of that depression--the lost time, relationships, etc--which is hard. But there is that window of relief before reality that is great.
>
> It's kind of (I think) like people I've seen give up drinking. It's not that hard at first. They're firm in their conviction, energized by the newness and the drama. It's only later that it gets hard. That's the psych side. On the bio side, I firmly believe some people get hypomanic with these meds before they settle into working the way they're supposed to.
>
> Don't get me wrong--med poop out is real. Prozac broke my heart over and over again. What I'm talking about is more new med honeymoon flush which I think is different--unrealistic and necessarily fleeting.
>
> Or maybe I'm full of it, but that's my hypothesis after 15 years of riding the pharmaceutical rollercoaster.
>
> L
Posted by Bekka H. on March 24, 2002, at 14:51:45
In reply to Re: that light switch? MAOIs etc » Lia Mason, posted by Cindylou on March 24, 2002, at 14:40:24
Hi Cindy Lou,
I was wondering where you were. I've been looking for you. The last time we "spoke," we discussed stimulant plus Lamictal combos, and you said you were unable to tolerate them.
Recently I began on Lamictal, and even at a tiny dose, it's been giving me insomnia. I tried going without the dexedrine for a few days to see whether that was the culprit, but Lamictal still gives me terribly shallow, non-restorative sleep. This is so discouraging. How are you doing on Lamictal alone? Does it interfere with your getting a good night's sleep?
Thanks.
Bekka
Posted by Cindylou on March 24, 2002, at 15:03:14
In reply to Re: that light switch? MAOIs etc-Cindy Lou, posted by Bekka H. on March 24, 2002, at 14:51:45
Hi Bekka,
Sorry to hear about your trouble sleeping with the Lamictal. That happened to me when I first started as well. Every time I increased my dose I would get very agitated and had trouble with sleep.The things that helped me were: 50 mg. Serzone and a very small dose of Klonapin (like 1/4 of a .25 mg tablet). The Serzone worked so well that I usually only needed the Klonapin during PMS or when I first titrated up on the Lamcital.
After I would stablize on a dose of Lamictal (about a week or so), the agitation would subside ... but it would start again when I went up again. I big PAIN! It ended up being worth it for awhile, but I am having a lot of trouble again with moods. I need to augment the Lamictal I think, or perhaps try to increase it again -- but the last time I got up to 125 mg I felt a lot of side effects.
Anyway, I hope you find help sleeping! I have never had trouble with Klonapin being addictive or anything. I can take it when I need it, and not take it when I don't -- it's never caused any trouble.
Good luck, and take care!
cindy> Hi Cindy Lou,
>
> I was wondering where you were. I've been looking for you. The last time we "spoke," we discussed stimulant plus Lamictal combos, and you said you were unable to tolerate them.
>
> Recently I began on Lamictal, and even at a tiny dose, it's been giving me insomnia. I tried going without the dexedrine for a few days to see whether that was the culprit, but Lamictal still gives me terribly shallow, non-restorative sleep. This is so discouraging. How are you doing on Lamictal alone? Does it interfere with your getting a good night's sleep?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Bekka
Posted by Bekka H. on March 24, 2002, at 16:19:14
In reply to Re: that light switch? MAOIs etc-Cindy Lou » Bekka H., posted by Cindylou on March 24, 2002, at 15:03:14
Hi Cindy Lou,
Thanks so much for your help. I am going to discuss some of these options with my doctor when I see him.
It's good to have you back!
Bekka
Posted by Lia Mason on March 28, 2002, at 0:17:46
In reply to Re: that light switch? MAOIs etc » Lia Mason, posted by Cindylou on March 24, 2002, at 14:40:24
Hi Cindylou,
I'm sorry. I was out of town for a few days. Hope you find this.
I've been on everything. Literally. I did all the MAO's which were fantastic antidepressants--truly "light switches" with terrible side effects. I also respond very well to SSRI's, but... there's the Prozac poop out which, as I've said, is heartbreaking.
One important thing I will tell you... Prozac pooped out on me for years. Awful. I'd get 6 months and then crash. Then, in 1994, I started taking Depakote with it and it made all the difference. I really believe--in my case--that Depakote kept the Prozac working--for years. I took the Prozac/Depakote combo until 2000 and depression-wise I was fine. But the sexual side effects continued to bother me, so... I started looking around. I tried Sam-e and did really well with that for a year (at a high, expensive dose--1200). Then, after this good year, I had some health problems (unrelated to Sam-e) that stressed me A LOT and I got depressed again. I'm now on Sam-e and Effexor and about to start Lamictal.
I don't know how much we have in common, but... I feel strongly that the addition of the mood stabilizer boosted my antidepressant a lot. I simply never got that kind of mileage out of Prozac alone.
My situation now is that I'm trying to find an antidepressant that doesn't numb me out sexually. I'm hoping Lamictal will help.
I hope this is somewhat useful. Good luck.
Lia
Posted by Cindylou on March 28, 2002, at 6:42:36
In reply to Re: that light switch? MAOIs etc- CindyLou, posted by Lia Mason on March 28, 2002, at 0:17:46
Hi Lia,
Thanks for the response ... I hope that Lamictal works well for you! I think there is a lot of good about it -- although I have reached a stand-still on my dose of 75 mg. For awhile, it really seemed to help with my anxiety ... a lot of people noticed the difference. I think for it to help with my depression I need to increase it, or find an antidepressant I can tolerate to add to it.I am considering SAM-e -- I bought a bottle at GNC, but haven't had the guts to try it yet. Did you have any side effects with it? Do you take it with sublingual Vitamin B, like I read from someone else in an earlier post? I'm curious about this new option.
Thanks, and keep me posted on how the Lamictal works for you. One thing you probably already know about it -- it takes PATIENCE. I had a difficult time with it every time I titrated up -- agitation coupled with fatigue -- it almost seemed to make things worse until I stabilized at that dose, and then I had to go through it all over again. But when I finally settled at a dose for a few weeks, things evened out for me.
I got up to 125 mg at one point, but began to have severe bloating, and even had to go out and buy new pants! I also felt extremely fatigued. I am going to try again, more slowly -- Emme suggested trying the 5 mg tablets.
Good luck! And take care,
cindy> Hi Cindylou,
>
> I'm sorry. I was out of town for a few days. Hope you find this.
>
> I've been on everything. Literally. I did all the MAO's which were fantastic antidepressants--truly "light switches" with terrible side effects. I also respond very well to SSRI's, but... there's the Prozac poop out which, as I've said, is heartbreaking.
>
> One important thing I will tell you... Prozac pooped out on me for years. Awful. I'd get 6 months and then crash. Then, in 1994, I started taking Depakote with it and it made all the difference. I really believe--in my case--that Depakote kept the Prozac working--for years. I took the Prozac/Depakote combo until 2000 and depression-wise I was fine. But the sexual side effects continued to bother me, so... I started looking around. I tried Sam-e and did really well with that for a year (at a high, expensive dose--1200). Then, after this good year, I had some health problems (unrelated to Sam-e) that stressed me A LOT and I got depressed again. I'm now on Sam-e and Effexor and about to start Lamictal.
>
> I don't know how much we have in common, but... I feel strongly that the addition of the mood stabilizer boosted my antidepressant a lot. I simply never got that kind of mileage out of Prozac alone.
>
> My situation now is that I'm trying to find an antidepressant that doesn't numb me out sexually. I'm hoping Lamictal will help.
>
> I hope this is somewhat useful. Good luck.
>
> Lia
Posted by Lia Mason on March 31, 2002, at 13:55:41
In reply to Re: that light switch? MAOIs etc- » Lia Mason, posted by Cindylou on March 28, 2002, at 6:42:36
Hi,
A couple things... Thanks for the advice re: lamictal. It is frustrating how slowly one has to titrate up. I'm trying to be patient.
Re: Sam-e. Be careful which brand you use. I use Nature Made. There have been studies done that showed the actual amount of sam-e in the supplement varied tremendously from brand to brand. GNC actually passed the test along with Natrol, Nature Made and TwinLab.
I had no side effects at all from sam-e and I take a fairly high dose 1200. I'm amazed (and jealous!)to hear people on this board say they've done well at low doses. I had to get up to 1200 for relief and that's expensive. 1600 is the ceiling. Richard Brown's book is very good (Stop Depression Now), though I think it downplays how much sam-e some of us actually need for depression relief.
I take folic acid and a b multiple.
Best,
L
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