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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Mr.Scott on March 26, 2002, at 22:26:46
Every time I take Lithium it's in conjunction with and AD, and it blows me out of the water from nonresponse to hypomania. Granted I'm never taking more than 450mg a day when this happens.I think I'm hypomanic now actually, but I'm going to bed anyways.
Scott
Posted by JohnX2 on March 26, 2002, at 22:39:47
In reply to Lithium the stimulant!, posted by Mr.Scott on March 26, 2002, at 22:26:46
Mr. Scott,I am soon to be augmenting Li to my cocktail.
I am cycling bad with agitated hypomania (I use an AD). Without the AD I feel a bit of mild apathy.I sure hope this Lithium can calm me down.
Can I ask you what medicine cocktail you are taking?
I seem to recall that we don't have too dissimalar symptoms?
Btw, you seemed to be balking on Li (as I have) am I correct? Or have you been testing this for a while? Please, any feedback is greatly appreciated!
I always want to switch ADs back to Wellbutrin, but I think this is just a hypomanic craving thing.
Thanks and best of luck,
John>
> Every time I take Lithium it's in conjunction with and AD, and it blows me out of the water from nonresponse to hypomania. Granted I'm never taking more than 450mg a day when this happens.
>
> I think I'm hypomanic now actually, but I'm going to bed anyways.
>
> Scott
Posted by Bekka H. on March 27, 2002, at 1:01:31
In reply to Re: Lithium the stimulant! » Mr.Scott, posted by JohnX2 on March 26, 2002, at 22:39:47
> I always want to switch ADs back to Wellbutrin, but I think this is just a hypomanic craving thing.
>
> Thanks and best of luck,
> John
************************************************Hi John, Can you explain what you mean when you say that Wellbutrin is a hypomanic craving thing? Do you mean you want to feel hypomanic on Wellbutrin? Or do you mean something else altogether?
Thanks.
Bekka
Posted by JohnX2 on March 27, 2002, at 1:49:46
In reply to Re: Lithium the stimulant! JohnX2, posted by Bekka H. on March 27, 2002, at 1:01:31
> > I always want to switch ADs back to Wellbutrin, but I think this is just a hypomanic craving thing.
> >
> > Thanks and best of luck,
> > John
> ************************************************
>
> Hi John, Can you explain what you mean when you say that Wellbutrin is a hypomanic craving thing? Do you mean you want to feel hypomanic on Wellbutrin? Or do you mean something else altogether?
>
> Thanks.
> Bekka
Hi Bekka,Wellbutrin was almost indistinguishable from an amphetamine buzz for me when it worked. Does that answer your question?
Regards
John
Posted by Bekka H. on March 27, 2002, at 2:24:06
In reply to Re: Lithium the stimulant! JohnX2 » Bekka H., posted by JohnX2 on March 27, 2002, at 1:49:46
Hi John,
Yes, that explains it. That's interesting. I found Wellbutrin to be much more of an irritant/stimulant for me than Dexedrine. Dexedrine calms me down, but on Wellbutrin I was "hyper." I also had a lot of cardiovascular side effects from Wellbutrin, such as significant blood pressure elevations, sustained palpitations, etc., which I do not get on Dexedrine. Wellbutrin also caused severe insomnia. I have never understood why I do so much better on a real amphetamine. A former pdoc of mine said that, until Wellbutrin downregulates the receptors, it functions as "cheap speed." Well, that's a good description, except that, for me, it never stopped functioning as cheap speed, even after I had been on it long enough and at a high enough dosage to cause receptor downregulation.
Bekka
Posted by JohnX2 on March 27, 2002, at 2:58:26
In reply to Re: Lithium the stimulant! JohnX2, posted by Bekka H. on March 27, 2002, at 2:24:06
Hi Bekka,Dexedrine (d-amphetamine) is selective for the dopamine receptor site. There used to be a cheaper form of speed called dl-amphetamine that was non-selective and would go after both norepinephrine and dopamine. The norepinephrine would cause mostly agitation. Adderall actually contains some of the l-amphetamine and can be more agitating.
Wellbutrin acts on the noradrenergric system, and it takes some time to desensitize feedback receptors that cause it to slow down nerve impulses in a stress area of the brain. I never felt stress on WB. It seems that this desensitization process ?may never? really occur for some people. I also read an article recently implicating that Wellbutrin may substantially indirectly increase serotonin conductance in a manner that may be somewhat consistent with Provigil (this is a swag today on my behalf...). Have you ever taken Provigil? This could also cause anxiety as it would bang on the anxiogenic 5-ht2 receptors. It may be interesting to see if people anxious on wellbutrin would be helped by a medicine like Zyprexa that blocks these serotonin receptors (wild ass guess on my behalf..).
I've taken Provigil, and it also did not irritate me. Provigil does make some people quite anxious.
Regards,
John
> Hi John,
>
> Yes, that explains it. That's interesting. I found Wellbutrin to be much more of an irritant/stimulant for me than Dexedrine. Dexedrine calms me down, but on Wellbutrin I was "hyper." I also had a lot of cardiovascular side effects from Wellbutrin, such as significant blood pressure elevations, sustained palpitations, etc., which I do not get on Dexedrine. Wellbutrin also caused severe insomnia. I have never understood why I do so much better on a real amphetamine. A former pdoc of mine said that, until Wellbutrin downregulates the receptors, it functions as "cheap speed." Well, that's a good description, except that, for me, it never stopped functioning as cheap speed, even after I had been on it long enough and at a high enough dosage to cause receptor downregulation.
>
> Bekka
Posted by Bekka H. on March 27, 2002, at 21:20:00
In reply to Re: Lithium the stimulant! JohnX2 » Bekka H., posted by JohnX2 on March 27, 2002, at 2:58:26
Hi John,
Thanks so much for the information on the 5HT2 receptors. I'm going to try to find out more about that because I have soooo much difficulty with so many meds causing paradoxical reactions, and now I wonder whether that might be a key to solving this dilemma. Dexedrine is one of the only meds I've ever taken that doesn't cause all sorts of terrible side effects, but as you probably know, if you take Dex on a daily basis without drug holidays, it rapidly loses its efficacy as an "antidepressant."
Do you know if it's just the plain old 5-HT2 receptors that have been implicated in this problem, or is it one of the 5-HT2 subtypes? So many 5-HT2 receptor subtypes have been identified in the past 10 years or so!
Thanks again.
Bekka
Posted by Bob on March 27, 2002, at 22:18:27
In reply to Lithium the stimulant!, posted by Mr.Scott on March 26, 2002, at 22:26:46
Scott:
What do you mean it "blows you out of the water from nonresponse to hypomania"? Are you saying that Lithium actually gives you hypomania? If so, how long does it last - as long as you are taking it? What AD are you mixing it with, or are you using it as monotherapy? What type are you taking, Lithobid, Eskalith, or another?
Bob
> Every time I take Lithium it's in conjunction with and AD, and it blows me out of the water from nonresponse to hypomania. Granted I'm never taking more than 450mg a day when this happens.
>
> I think I'm hypomanic now actually, but I'm going to bed anyways.
>
> Scott
This is the end of the thread.
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