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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by susan C on July 26, 2001, at 22:23:47
Has anyone else come across this? The idea of our brains not working normally is pretty well accepted, but how they don't work is another thing. It sounds like we all have different combinations of conditions and meds that work, stop working and new ones to try. The site found was http://www.uq.edu.au/nug/jack/BipolarDisorder.html
on research about parallels between brain hemisphere switching and other rythmns (I can't spell cinamon, alluminium vaccumn either.) The thing I don't understand, is if we (editorial 'we') discover that our brain is working a certain way, what difference will it make? My pdoc said, yes we can look at your brain with an MRI or SPECT scan and perhaps see that it is not normal. Or maybe find there is something 'interesting' and we could go in and take a sample. But if I wouldn't want them to 'go in' and I already accept that that my brain is abnormal. So, I ask, why do it? Maybe the answer is obvious, but will someone endulge me?
Posted by dreamer on July 26, 2001, at 22:37:21
In reply to Brain Hemisphere Switching and Other Body Rythmns, posted by susan C on July 26, 2001, at 22:23:47
> Has anyone else come across this? The idea of our brains not working normally is pretty well accepted, but how they don't work is another thing. It sounds like we all have different combinations of conditions and meds that work, stop working and new ones to try. The site found was http://www.uq.edu.au/nug/jack/BipolarDisorder.html
> on research about parallels between brain hemisphere switching and other rythmns (I can't spell cinamon, alluminium vaccumn either.) The thing I don't understand, is if we (editorial 'we') discover that our brain is working a certain way, what difference will it make? My pdoc said, yes we can look at your brain with an MRI or SPECT scan and perhaps see that it is not normal. Or maybe find there is something 'interesting' and we could go in and take a sample. But if I wouldn't want them to 'go in' and I already accept that that my brain is abnormal. So, I ask, why do it? Maybe the answer is obvious, but will someone endulge me?My brains not working normally + can't 'go in' site not found on this server.
Posted by susan C on July 26, 2001, at 22:43:43
In reply to Re: Brain Hemisphere Switching and Other Body Rythmns, posted by susan C on July 26, 2001, at 22:40:10
>OOPS I clicked post, too fast, try this, I copied right off, instead of trying to type it in.
http://www.uq.edu.au/nuq/jack/BipolarDisorder.html
>
> > > Has anyone else come across this? The idea of our brains not working normally is pretty well accepted, but how they don't work is another thing. It sounds like we all have different combinations of conditions and meds that work, stop working and new ones to try. The site found was http://www.uq.edu.au/nug/jack/BipolarDisorder.html
> > > on research about parallels between brain hemisphere switching and other rythmns (I can't spell cinamon, alluminium vaccumn either.) The thing I don't understand, is if we (editorial 'we') discover that our brain is working a certain way, what difference will it make? My pdoc said, yes we can look at your brain with an MRI or SPECT scan and perhaps see that it is not normal. Or maybe find there is something 'interesting' and we could go in and take a sample. But if I wouldn't want them to 'go in' and I already accept that that my brain is abnormal. So, I ask, why do it? Maybe the answer is obvious, but will someone endulge me?
> >
> > My brains not working normally + can't 'go in' site not found on this server.
Posted by Noa on July 27, 2001, at 9:32:17
In reply to Re: Brain Hemisphere Switching and Other Body Rythmns, posted by susan C on July 26, 2001, at 22:43:43
There was some discussion of this last year sometime--about the researcher who said putting ice water in one ear activates the opposite hemisphere, etc.
As for brain scans, it seems to me that at this point in time, they don't have quite enough info to determine how variable normal populations are vs. those with disorders to come up with what precisely constitutes a deviation, meaning it isn't precise enough to be used for individual diagnoses. I may be wrong about this. Don't know.
Posted by Shar on July 27, 2001, at 22:41:28
In reply to Brain Hemisphere Switching and Other Body Rythmns, posted by susan C on July 26, 2001, at 22:23:47
Hmmm, if they can see the brain does not look normal, and then one starts an AD, I wonder if they could look again and see if the brain looks normal. That would mean the AD was working.
That would be pretty cool if they could do that.
Just MHO
Shar> Has anyone else come across this? The idea of our brains not working normally is pretty well accepted, but how they don't work is another thing. It sounds like we all have different combinations of conditions and meds that work, stop working and new ones to try. The site found was http://www.uq.edu.au/nug/jack/BipolarDisorder.html
> on research about parallels between brain hemisphere switching and other rythmns (I can't spell cinamon, alluminium vaccumn either.) The thing I don't understand, is if we (editorial 'we') discover that our brain is working a certain way, what difference will it make? My pdoc said, yes we can look at your brain with an MRI or SPECT scan and perhaps see that it is not normal. Or maybe find there is something 'interesting' and we could go in and take a sample. But if I wouldn't want them to 'go in' and I already accept that that my brain is abnormal. So, I ask, why do it? Maybe the answer is obvious, but will someone endulge me?
Posted by mila on July 27, 2001, at 22:57:20
In reply to Re: Brain Hemisphere Switching and Other Body Rythmns » susan C, posted by Shar on July 27, 2001, at 22:41:28
> Hmmm, if they can see the brain does not look normal, and then one starts an AD, I wonder if they could look again and see if the brain looks normal. That would mean the AD was working.
>
> That would be pretty cool if they could do that.
>
> Just MHO
> SharHi,
I read in Psychology Today that in depressed patients certain areas of the brain are abnormally small and recover their size after treatment with medication and therapy.
I am off the meds now and function very well even under some severe stress, I feel like a different person now, with a different brain. Usual reactions just do not appear. I have never been like that before. Needless to say I enjoy it.
mila
Posted by susan C on July 28, 2001, at 10:49:39
In reply to Re: Shar, posted by mila on July 27, 2001, at 22:57:20
Congratulations are in order! It would be interesting to have 'seen' your brain 'before' and 'after'. My understanding is the brain is still considered a black box. Enjoy yours.
> > Hmmm, if they can see the brain does not look normal, and then one starts an AD, I wonder if they could look again and see if the brain looks normal. That would mean the AD was working.
> >
> > That would be pretty cool if they could do that.
> >
> > Just MHO
> > Shar
>
> Hi,
>
> I read in Psychology Today that in depressed patients certain areas of the brain are abnormally small and recover their size after treatment with medication and therapy.
>
> I am off the meds now and function very well even under some severe stress, I feel like a different person now, with a different brain. Usual reactions just do not appear. I have never been like that before. Needless to say I enjoy it.
>
> mila
Posted by mila on July 29, 2001, at 0:37:15
In reply to Re: Shar, posted by susan C on July 28, 2001, at 10:49:39
> Congratulations are in order! It would be interesting to have 'seen' your brain 'before' and 'after'. My understanding is the brain is still considered a black box. Enjoy yours.
thanks, Susan. I try to enjoy it, and I keep trying hard :)
mila
Posted by Mitch on July 30, 2001, at 9:38:31
In reply to Re: Brain Hemisphere Switching and Other Body Rythmns, posted by susan C on July 26, 2001, at 22:43:43
> >OOPS I clicked post, too fast, try this, I copied right off, instead of trying to type it in.
> http://www.uq.edu.au/nuq/jack/BipolarDisorder.html
> >
> > > > Has anyone else come across this? The idea of our brains not working normally is pretty well accepted, but how they don't work is another thing. It sounds like we all have different combinations of conditions and meds that work, stop working and new ones to try. The site found was http://www.uq.edu.au/nug/jack/BipolarDisorder.html
> > > > on research about parallels between brain hemisphere switching and other rythmns (I can't spell cinamon, alluminium vaccumn either.) The thing I don't understand, is if we (editorial 'we') discover that our brain is working a certain way, what difference will it make? My pdoc said, yes we can look at your brain with an MRI or SPECT scan and perhaps see that it is not normal. Or maybe find there is something 'interesting' and we could go in and take a sample. But if I wouldn't want them to 'go in' and I already accept that that my brain is abnormal. So, I ask, why do it? Maybe the answer is obvious, but will someone endulge me?Hey!,
I just now read this stuff and was completely unaware of it and it sounds so right! I was speculating about some sort of right/left brain *interruption* in the threads about the intrusive music. I was speculating that the hemispheres weren't cooperating with each other properly causing "auras" or "pseudo-seizure-like" phenomena. And now it seems that it could be a mechanism to help explain bipolar disorder, hmmm!
What is interesting is that I have a problem with "lazy eyes". The biggest trouble is with my left eye looking to my left and my right eye doing all of the "seeing". And SOMETIMES my right eye is the lazy one looking to the right letting my left eye do all the work! Certain meds affect this greatly as well. I "feel" the best whenever both of them are behaving properly! I have bipolar and ADHD and the attentiveness is just shot to hell whenever my eyes are on vacation, it isn't a problem with reading per se, I can use just one eye and do all the reading I want with the other one "just hanging out in space", but I can't seem to process the information...
I think they are definitely onto something, but I would explore some permutations of that idea as possible alternate theories. What if it isn't as simple as one hemisphere getting stuck and not turning over control to the other one?? What if *part* of one hemisphere gets stuck and *part* of the OTHER hemisphere gets stuck, TOO?? Wait a minute...what I am wondering is maybe it is too simple to think that ALL of the verbal processing is done in the left hemisphere... maybe..there is a corollary that MUST be used in the right and it can't be accessed????? and vice versa...?? That would explain some of the "derealization" or "depersonalization" episodes that I have gotten that have been suggestive of temporal lobe epilepsy. When I get them it feels like my hands/arms aren't attached to me somehow and that any given limb seems to have it's own "consciousness" of sorts-like the hand itself has a mind of its own in a way. Wow, this is so freaking hard to describe!!
Oh, well sorry for the rambling..
Any other ideas?Mitch
Posted by susan C on July 30, 2001, at 11:22:17
In reply to Re: Brain Hemisphere Switching and Other Body Rythmns » susan C, posted by Mitch on July 30, 2001, at 9:38:31
More ideas? Just that we have a black box on top of our shoulders. My husband has lazy eye, and didnt go to eye doc until 40 year old. doc said he was basically blind in that eye, as oposit eye did all the work (that is when the lazy eye moved toward his nose) If he were younger, they would have done an operation on the muscles, but now he is too old. I wonder if part of all of this bipolar business, brain process business is perceptual. Now, perceptual is a catchall term. In Psycho babble social there was a very good comment on vincint vangogh. and society accepting rejectng perceptions outside of norm. I guess I am rambling...what is normal. I just know I get very depressed and very manicand it disrupts my life. Bear with me, I am dizzy right now, I am trying Keppra and going to go add a entry to my journal, then go lie down. i am going to come back and read your post again, it needs more thought. Thanks I like the ideas.
> > >OOPS I clicked post, too fast, try this, I copied right off, instead of trying to type it in.
> > http://www.uq.edu.au/nuq/jack/BipolarDisorder.html
> > >
> > > > > Has anyone else come across this? The idea of our brains not working normally is pretty well accepted, but how they don't work is another thing. It sounds like we all have different combinations of conditions and meds that work, stop working and new ones to try. The site found was http://www.uq.edu.au/nug/jack/BipolarDisorder.html
> > > > > on research about parallels between brain hemisphere switching and other rythmns (I can't spell cinamon, alluminium vaccumn either.) The thing I don't understand, is if we (editorial 'we') discover that our brain is working a certain way, what difference will it make? My pdoc said, yes we can look at your brain with an MRI or SPECT scan and perhaps see that it is not normal. Or maybe find there is something 'interesting' and we could go in and take a sample. But if I wouldn't want them to 'go in' and I already accept that that my brain is abnormal. So, I ask, why do it? Maybe the answer is obvious, but will someone endulge me?
>
> Hey!,
>
> I just now read this stuff and was completely unaware of it and it sounds so right! I was speculating about some sort of right/left brain *interruption* in the threads about the intrusive music. I was speculating that the hemispheres weren't cooperating with each other properly causing "auras" or "pseudo-seizure-like" phenomena. And now it seems that it could be a mechanism to help explain bipolar disorder, hmmm!
>
> What is interesting is that I have a problem with "lazy eyes". The biggest trouble is with my left eye looking to my left and my right eye doing all of the "seeing". And SOMETIMES my right eye is the lazy one looking to the right letting my left eye do all the work! Certain meds affect this greatly as well. I "feel" the best whenever both of them are behaving properly! I have bipolar and ADHD and the attentiveness is just shot to hell whenever my eyes are on vacation, it isn't a problem with reading per se, I can use just one eye and do all the reading I want with the other one "just hanging out in space", but I can't seem to process the information...
>
> I think they are definitely onto something, but I would explore some permutations of that idea as possible alternate theories. What if it isn't as simple as one hemisphere getting stuck and not turning over control to the other one?? What if *part* of one hemisphere gets stuck and *part* of the OTHER hemisphere gets stuck, TOO?? Wait a minute...what I am wondering is maybe it is too simple to think that ALL of the verbal processing is done in the left hemisphere... maybe..there is a corollary that MUST be used in the right and it can't be accessed????? and vice versa...?? That would explain some of the "derealization" or "depersonalization" episodes that I have gotten that have been suggestive of temporal lobe epilepsy. When I get them it feels like my hands/arms aren't attached to me somehow and that any given limb seems to have it's own "consciousness" of sorts-like the hand itself has a mind of its own in a way. Wow, this is so freaking hard to describe!!
>
> Oh, well sorry for the rambling..
> Any other ideas?
>
> Mitch
Posted by Mitch on July 30, 2001, at 13:00:18
In reply to Re: Brain Hemisphere Switching and Other Body Rythmns, posted by susan C on July 30, 2001, at 11:22:17
> More ideas? Just that we have a black box on top of our shoulders. My husband has lazy eye, and didnt go to eye doc until 40 year old. doc said he was basically blind in that eye, as oposit eye did all the work (that is when the lazy eye moved toward his nose) If he were younger, they would have done an operation on the muscles, but now he is too old. I wonder if part of all of this bipolar business, brain process business is perceptual. Now, perceptual is a catchall term. In Psycho babble social there was a very good comment on vincint vangogh. and society accepting rejectng perceptions outside of norm. I guess I am rambling...what is normal. I just know I get very depressed and very manicand it disrupts my life. Bear with me, I am dizzy right now, I am trying Keppra and going to go add a entry to my journal, then go lie down. i am going to come back and read your post again, it needs more thought. Thanks I like the ideas.
>Well..
I have got a couple more ideas! I was just wondering if each hemisphere can have different levels of consciousness. What if one side stays dominant too long (the "switch" get stuck) because the other hemisphere is *sleepy* or not quite awake yet-asleep at the wheel?? Or what if "control" is shared at differing *rates* at different times of the day?? After drinking about three strong cups of coffee and taking my Neurontin+Depakote my eyes are back "together" again and my thinking cleared up.
I noticed when I was on Adderall+Neurontin how "contrasted" my awake time and my asleep time was. I never woke up in the middle of the nite-didn't have trouble going to sleep and it didn't take me half the morning to WAKE UP (that is classic ADHD there). Even BEFORE I took my Adderall dose in the morning, I would just blink my eyes a few times-yawn once or twice and get right out of bed and was nearly fully awake within a short time.
This is another stretch, but what if one hemisphere experienced something like a "drop-attack" like narcoleptics have and the other side had to take over trying to do ALL of the functions instead of sharing back and forth quickly-like a pilot and a copilot?
Here's another one-what if while you are asleep one hemisphere "wakes up" and the other one doesn't?? I wonder how all of this would be implicated in sleep study?? I swear my daily moods EXACTLY mirror my sleep/wake quality and structure. Hey, if we have "two" minds, couldn't they get *asynschronous* with one another regard to level of function creating the "stuck switch" phenomena??
Oh, you originally were asking some questions about what good is it to look and find abnormalities if it doesn't really "change anything". Well...experience does *rewire* your brain. Maybe this could result in some interesting new *psychotherapies* that may have diddly to do with talking about your problems, etc. or not even resemble CBT at all, for instance. I found some tidbit of info way back on Medscape about using a metronome to treat ADHD. Also new meds might be created that go beyond just "targeting receptors". What about right or left brain *selective* meds (if that is possible)??
Enough for now,
Any neuroscientists out there jump in!Mitch
Posted by susan C on July 30, 2001, at 14:14:20
In reply to Re: Brain Hemisphere Switching-more WHAT if's » susan C, posted by Mitch on July 30, 2001, at 13:00:18
Building left Brain Power by Bragdon and Gamon got me thinking on this idea of right left business and has info on studies of people whose brains were surgically separated (to keep big Epileptic seizure from traveling to other side) One hand slapped face, because one side of brain was awake and wanted to wake up other side...very interesting info when combined with webside mentioned earlier.. I think if only we could really record carefully what we experience, we could find answers. I find your comparison to the two different combo of med and how you felt very interesting. The other day I was talking with spouse and said, you remember 15 years ago we were doing this and I felt this way, well, that is the same way I felt a week ago....the same thing was happening. I know something is going on in my brain. I have gotten that far. I know there isn't very much information yet, and I am trying not to give up. Thanks for the conversation. I look forward to more when ever you have some ideas.
> > More ideas? Just that we have a black box on top of our shoulders. My husband has lazy eye, and didnt go to eye doc until 40 year old. doc said he was basically blind in that eye, as oposit eye did all the work (that is when the lazy eye moved toward his nose) If he were younger, they would have done an operation on the muscles, but now he is too old. I wonder if part of all of this bipolar business, brain process business is perceptual. Now, perceptual is a catchall term. In Psycho babble social there was a very good comment on vincint vangogh. and society accepting rejectng perceptions outside of norm. I guess I am rambling...what is normal. I just know I get very depressed and very manicand it disrupts my life. Bear with me, I am dizzy right now, I am trying Keppra and going to go add a entry to my journal, then go lie down. i am going to come back and read your post again, it needs more thought. Thanks I like the ideas.
> >
>
> Well..
>
> I have got a couple more ideas! I was just wondering if each hemisphere can have different levels of consciousness. What if one side stays dominant too long (the "switch" get stuck) because the other hemisphere is *sleepy* or not quite awake yet-asleep at the wheel?? Or what if "control" is shared at differing *rates* at different times of the day?? After drinking about three strong cups of coffee and taking my Neurontin+Depakote my eyes are back "together" again and my thinking cleared up.
>
> I noticed when I was on Adderall+Neurontin how "contrasted" my awake time and my asleep time was. I never woke up in the middle of the nite-didn't have trouble going to sleep and it didn't take me half the morning to WAKE UP (that is classic ADHD there). Even BEFORE I took my Adderall dose in the morning, I would just blink my eyes a few times-yawn once or twice and get right out of bed and was nearly fully awake within a short time.
>
> This is another stretch, but what if one hemisphere experienced something like a "drop-attack" like narcoleptics have and the other side had to take over trying to do ALL of the functions instead of sharing back and forth quickly-like a pilot and a copilot?
>
> Here's another one-what if while you are asleep one hemisphere "wakes up" and the other one doesn't?? I wonder how all of this would be implicated in sleep study?? I swear my daily moods EXACTLY mirror my sleep/wake quality and structure. Hey, if we have "two" minds, couldn't they get *asynschronous* with one another regard to level of function creating the "stuck switch" phenomena??
>
> Oh, you originally were asking some questions about what good is it to look and find abnormalities if it doesn't really "change anything". Well...experience does *rewire* your brain. Maybe this could result in some interesting new *psychotherapies* that may have diddly to do with talking about your problems, etc. or not even resemble CBT at all, for instance. I found some tidbit of info way back on Medscape about using a metronome to treat ADHD. Also new meds might be created that go beyond just "targeting receptors". What about right or left brain *selective* meds (if that is possible)??
>
> Enough for now,
> Any neuroscientists out there jump in!
>
> Mitch
Posted by Zo on July 31, 2001, at 0:29:11
In reply to Re: Brain Hemisphere Switching and Other Body Rythmns » susan C, posted by Mitch on July 30, 2001, at 9:38:31
. . .And (I think I posted this to you before, Mitch) my eye goes "lazy" when I am particularly vulnerable, for one reason or another, to my TLE. Just the right disappearing graphic animation on a web page can provoke this state.
Who knew.
Zo
Posted by Mitch on July 31, 2001, at 0:40:40
In reply to Re: Brain Hemisphere Switching-more WHAT if's, posted by susan C on July 30, 2001, at 14:14:20
> Building left Brain Power by Bragdon and Gamon got me thinking on this idea of right left business and has info on studies of people whose brains were surgically separated (to keep big Epileptic seizure from traveling to other side) One hand slapped face, because one side of brain was awake and wanted to wake up other side...very interesting info when combined with webside mentioned earlier.. I think if only we could really record carefully what we experience, we could find answers. I find your comparison to the two different combo of med and how you felt very interesting. The other day I was talking with spouse and said, you remember 15 years ago we were doing this and I felt this way, well, that is the same way I felt a week ago....the same thing was happening. I know something is going on in my brain. I have gotten that far. I know there isn't very much information yet, and I am trying not to give up. Thanks for the conversation. I look forward to more when ever you have some ideas.
Well, that is pretty damn interesting! You see the PROBLEM is that the right brain isn't generally verbal. It would be like trying to write a novel with pure emotions (without words) or something. You CAN'T SHARE THAT like you can a book or an email! And to complicate things further there probably isn't the same sense of TIME/HISTORY in the right hemisphere (if there is a sense of time at all!). I understand that *emotional* memories are THERE to access, but HOW do we actually manage that *database*??
Well here is another interesting tidbit of info-my sister, brother, my mother, my grandmother and myself (to a much lesser extent) have problems with dyslexia. It was severe in my sister's case-she would right down telephone numbers incorrectly-but would see them and dial them correctly. I picked up her telephone book years ago and dialed my other sister's number-and got someone else! She dials the incorrect numbers (as she has written them) correctly. Also, my grandmother named my mother Juanita-but she misspelled it as Jaunita-and it stuck! I have told my Mom for ages that it is wrong and she insists that it is correct. My grandmother was the only one in our family which was hospitalized for psychotic depression and had ECT. My Mom had generalized nocturnal epilepsy between *pregnancies*.
The *trick* is REALLY the RECORDING of unusual experiences like you mentioned.
Mitch
Posted by Mitch on July 31, 2001, at 0:46:52
In reply to Re: Lazy Eye » Mitch, posted by Zo on July 31, 2001, at 0:29:11
> . . .And (I think I posted this to you before, Mitch) my eye goes "lazy" when I am particularly vulnerable, for one reason or another, to my TLE. Just the right disappearing graphic animation on a web page can provoke this state.
>
> Who knew.
>
> ZoZo, Nope I must have missed that one. What I can't get over is that the eyes take turns at it-they can *switch*! Yes, it is worse when I am feeling less attentive and groggy, and sedative meds make it worse OK (to alternative explanations). But, by golly you throw a stimulant in there and they are "together" and I am ALERT I don't have weird problems with mood/cognition...
Mitch
This is the end of the thread.
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