![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Joe Schmoe on July 22, 2001, at 16:08:29
For those people who have read "Listening to Prozac," I am interested in hearing your reaction to taking SSRIs compared to the case studies in the book. In the book, a number of individuals suddenly go from depressed, inhibited, sensitive, shy etc. to being popular, dynamic, attractive, energetic people whose careers and social lives take off - basically a miracle transformation of personality from miserable to the life of the party. Has this really occured for anyone here or is it a bunch of crap? What good is being more attractive if you become numb below the waist? What good is your career taking off if you gain 40 pounds?
I have read a lot of responses to SSRI questions here and have read a lot of negative opinions. Five days of Paxil was enough to convince me I had no interest in these medicines and would rather try something more benign like Wellbutrin, but of course Wellbutrin has no book written about it singing its praises so I don't know exactly what I should expect from it, except presumably a better overall mood.
I am not saying SSRIs don't help some depressed people become better, although often at the very high cost of their sexuality and often at the equally high cost of very significant weight gain, but I am just wondering if the expectations set up by the "better than well" terminology in "Listening to Prozac" has been matched by your own experience with SSRIs. Is it really "better than well" to have no libido and to gain 40 pounds?
Given that there are drugs around for depression and social anxiety that do not have these devastating sexual side effects nor weight gain side effects, like Serzone, Wellbutrin, and Klonopin, I have to wonder why the SSRIs remain the first drug of choice for the average doctor confronted by a depressed or anxious patient. Do the SSRIs truly have a personality-transforming power that Wellbutrin and Serzone do not? Or is it just baloney?
Posted by adamie on July 22, 2001, at 16:29:53
In reply to Listening to Prozac vs your own experiences, posted by Joe Schmoe on July 22, 2001, at 16:08:29
> For those people who have read "Listening to Prozac," I am interested in hearing your reaction to taking SSRIs compared to the case studies in the book. In the book, a number of individuals suddenly go from depressed, inhibited, sensitive, shy etc. to being popular, dynamic, attractive, energetic people whose careers and social lives take off - basically a miracle transformation of personality from miserable to the life of the party. Has this really occured for anyone here or is it a bunch of crap? What good is being more attractive if you become numb below the waist? What good is your career taking off if you gain 40 pounds?
>
> I have read a lot of responses to SSRI questions here and have read a lot of negative opinions. Five days of Paxil was enough to convince me I had no interest in these medicines and would rather try something more benign like Wellbutrin, but of course Wellbutrin has no book written about it singing its praises so I don't know exactly what I should expect from it, except presumably a better overall mood.
>
> I am not saying SSRIs don't help some depressed people become better, although often at the very high cost of their sexuality and often at the equally high cost of very significant weight gain, but I am just wondering if the expectations set up by the "better than well" terminology in "Listening to Prozac" has been matched by your own experience with SSRIs. Is it really "better than well" to have no libido and to gain 40 pounds?
>
> Given that there are drugs around for depression and social anxiety that do not have these devastating sexual side effects nor weight gain side effects, like Serzone, Wellbutrin, and Klonopin, I have to wonder why the SSRIs remain the first drug of choice for the average doctor confronted by a depressed or anxious patient. Do the SSRIs truly have a personality-transforming power that Wellbutrin and Serzone do not? Or is it just baloney?hi. I have read from at least one person of how ssri's can make you into a person that is not you.
i would assume it's not a common event but to me it seems certain anti depressants can have certain person altering effects.I personally dont want to be any different than whom I was before I was stuck by a severe depression. I loved being me. I dont want to be different at all. And that is what I fear. Perhaps certain anti depressants will make me behave slightly differently or feel differently than I would have normally.
I have normally been a very shy and nervous person around people. But I liked this about me. My natural social anxiety. I liked that about me. I liked that I was always aware of everything around me and always considered everything. I dont want some numbing effect from ssri's. I want to be exactly how I was before. Because as it is now I am hardly nervous around people at all. Simply because I lack all my emotions. it simply doesn't matter to me. So all that nervousness is gone. I can just hope I will be exactly the same as I was before the depression.
sorry for not answering any of your questions. just felt like writting.
Posted by Joy on July 22, 2001, at 19:27:44
In reply to Listening to Prozac vs your own experiences, posted by Joe Schmoe on July 22, 2001, at 16:08:29
Joe,
This is just my opinion but I've been on Paxil, Serzone, Zoloft, Celexa and Prozac. I am now on Prozac 6 months [now at 60 mg which works very well]. I am somehow insulated from the anxiety and hyper-sensitivity that I've always had. I have also read 'Listening to Prozac'. I believe that Prozac works for more people that the other SSRIs. MOST people do not gain weight on Prozac, but they sure do on Paxil and Zoloft. IMHO Prozac is a better med for MOST people. My boyfriend broke off with me with no explanation after several months. I am able to accept it with an open heart and just wish him the best and move on. I would have been hysterical, freaking out, taking many months to recover before I was on Prozac, and I just don't want to live that way. I know it's not for everyone, but I have lost about 6 lbs. I have a friend on Prozac 11 years with no weight gain. We both take something for insomnia, but I have no real bad side effects from Prozac. Serzone agitated me terribly and Paxil made me very hungry all the time. For my money, the right dose of Prozac helps a lot of people compared to the newer SSRIs. Just my humble opinion........
Joy
Posted by adamie on July 22, 2001, at 19:53:05
In reply to Re: Listening to Prozac vs your own experiences » Joe Schmoe, posted by Joy on July 22, 2001, at 19:27:44
> Joe,
> This is just my opinion but I've been on Paxil, Serzone, Zoloft, Celexa and Prozac. I am now on Prozac 6 months [now at 60 mg which works very well]. I am somehow insulated from the anxiety and hyper-sensitivity that I've always had. I have also read 'Listening to Prozac'. I believe that Prozac works for more people that the other SSRIs. MOST people do not gain weight on Prozac, but they sure do on Paxil and Zoloft. IMHO Prozac is a better med for MOST people. My boyfriend broke off with me with no explanation after several months. I am able to accept it with an open heart and just wish him the best and move on. I would have been hysterical, freaking out, taking many months to recover before I was on Prozac, and I just don't want to live that way. I know it's not for everyone, but I have lost about 6 lbs. I have a friend on Prozac 11 years with no weight gain. We both take something for insomnia, but I have no real bad side effects from Prozac. Serzone agitated me terribly and Paxil made me very hungry all the time. For my money, the right dose of Prozac helps a lot of people compared to the newer SSRIs. Just my humble opinion........
> Joyhi Joy. My concern has been with the ssri numbing effect. Have you been able to accept that break-up so well due to what could be a mild apathy or just simply because with prozac your outlook on life and everything in general is much more positive?
I was always been concerned with the emotional side of ssri's. but prozac does seem to be different in many cases and seemingly the more effective ssri from the group.
with your prozac are you able to feel a very wide range of emotions? How about full and intense loving emotions?
It's good to know it has worked well for you. Prozac is one of my future choices if I dont find relief from wellbutrin.
Posted by Zo on July 22, 2001, at 20:30:20
In reply to Listening to Prozac vs your own experiences, posted by Joe Schmoe on July 22, 2001, at 16:08:29
> What good is being more attractive if you become numb below the waist? What good is your career taking off if you gain 40 pounds?
Exactly. The book raised interesting points - and SSRIs aren't magic. Drug companies develop what sells. Why aren't there more dopaminergic ADs like Wellbutrin? Because that book, and Prozac, caught the public fancy. You've got to grant, Prozac was a *miracle* compared to tricyclics and MAOs. The first "designer drug". . that didn't pepper the receptor sites like buckshot.
> Five days of Paxil was enough to convince me I had no interest in these medicines and would rather try something more benign like Wellbutrin, but of course Wellbutrin has no book written about it singing its praises so I don't know exactly what I should expect from it, except presumably a better overall mood.
Smart man. Dopamine FEELS GOOD.
> I have to wonder why the SSRIs remain the first drug of choice for the average doctor confronted by a depressed or anxious patient. Do the SSRIs truly have a personality-transforming power that Wellbutrin and Serzone do not? Or is it just baloney?
Duh. Whoever said most Average Doctors have time - or like to - think. They're as prey to drug co. advertising as we are, only moreso. No perks for we poor patients.
I think Serzone is an SSRI. Maybe I'm wrong, but it felt like one - horrid zombie-land - to me. Wellbutrin is a different class. Effexor is also not classified as an SSRI.
That's what's great about this board - one has to think for oneself, and this is support to do so.
Zo
Posted by 16# on July 22, 2001, at 20:37:32
In reply to Listening to Prozac vs your own experiences, posted by Joe Schmoe on July 22, 2001, at 16:08:29
My opinion is that Kramer misdiagnosed his patients as "dysthymic" when they were in fact BPIII and became hypomanic on the SSRIs. What he termed "better than well" was probably another manifestation of the same illness, I think. Of course, what do I know? I would only know if I followed up on his patients. It would be interesting to know whether he did and if so, what he found out.
As for me, meds have worked, even though, like most chronically ill people, I have had to do a lot of tinkering. I have had great days but I cannot say that I have ever been transported to a "better than well" state that wasn't hypomanic. I cannot complain though. And any time I think that the meds are not worthwhile, all I need to do is to go off of them for a few days to be reminded of what it feels like to be really sick.
Posted by MM on July 23, 2001, at 1:47:19
In reply to Re: Listening to Prozac vs your own experiences, posted by 16# on July 22, 2001, at 20:37:32
I could be wrong, but I think serzone is an SNRI, and in the same class as wellbutrin. I've tried prozac, zoloft, paxil, serzone, wellbutrin, effexor, celexa (I think) and probably other ones if there are any. To be honest, I don't know exactly what they did for me. They numbed me out somewhat, but I don't know if that was good. Increased anxiety, etc. was something else I experienced. I gained some weight. I got electric shocks in the head and face when I stopped (I stopped cold turkey on most because I ran out, then decided I didn't like em, I liked being off of them more). It's all kind of a blur. Prozac specifically made me feel WEIRD, probably more depressed. I don't think they can be claimed as little miracles. We don't know enough about the brain right now. Basically I would be cautious, and decide for yourself. LISTEN TO YOURSELF NOT PROZAC.
Posted by Else on July 23, 2001, at 6:56:44
In reply to Listening to Prozac vs your own experiences, posted by Joe Schmoe on July 22, 2001, at 16:08:29
> For those people who have read "Listening to Prozac," I am interested in hearing your reaction to taking SSRIs compared to the case studies in the book. In the book, a number of individuals suddenly go from depressed, inhibited, sensitive, shy etc. to being popular, dynamic, attractive, energetic people whose careers and social lives take off - basically a miracle transformation of personality from miserable to the life of the party. Has this really occured for anyone here or is it a bunch of crap? What good is being more attractive if you become numb below the waist? What good is your career taking off if you gain 40 pounds?
>
Prozac and Zoloft certainly diminished my anxiety but let's just say that, considering I had read the book beforehand, they were a huge disapointment. They didn't just make me numb below the waist, they made me numb all over. I had no initiative whatsoever and was content working a CRAPPY HORRIBLE job for two years while I was on it. Plus it made me irritable as hell. I think the people who do great on these probably become hypomanic in some way.> I have read a lot of responses to SSRI questions here and have read a lot of negative opinions. Five days of Paxil was enough to convince me I had no interest in these medicines and would rather try something more benign like Wellbutrin, but of course Wellbutrin has no book written about it singing its praises so I don't know exactly what I should expect from it, except presumably a better overall mood.
At least you wont feel "numb below the belt". There's no book on Wellbutrin but there is this interesting article:
http://bupropion.com/wonderwell/index.html
> I am not saying SSRIs don't help some depressed people become better, although often at the very high cost of their sexuality and often at the equally high cost of very significant weight gain, but I am just wondering if the expectations set up by the "better than well" terminology in "Listening to Prozac" has been matched by your own experience with SSRIs. Is it really "better than well" to have no libido and to gain 40 pounds?The short answer is no.
> Given that there are drugs around for depression and social anxiety that do not have these devastating sexual side effects nor weight gain side effects, like Serzone, Wellbutrin, and Klonopin, I have to wonder why the SSRIs remain the first drug of choice for the average doctor confronted by a depressed or anxious patient. Do the SSRIs truly have a personality-transforming power that Wellbutrin and Serzone do not? Or is it just baloney?
Doctors don't prescribe Klonopin because of *the risk of addiction* (which of course is much worse than being a zombie with no sex life).
In medical magazines and reviews, SSRIs are commonly advertised as "first-line" therapy and GPs (and some pdocs) have gotten into the habit of picking these over other drugs, probably because they are more familliar with them and know what to expect. They've heard more about them. Other drugs sound exotic to them (GPs).
Posted by akrake on July 23, 2001, at 7:35:20
In reply to Re: Listening to Prozac vs your own experiences, posted by Else on July 23, 2001, at 6:56:44
> In the book, a number of individuals suddenly go from depressed, inhibited, sensitive, shy etc. to being popular, dynamic, attractive, energetic people....
this happened to me in 1992 or '93 when my gyn prescribed it for me for "lack of a sex life & being generally depressed due to the loss of a job". i was young and stupid & took it with lots of alcohol. I became really uninhibited....too much so...my marriage almost ended. i was apathetic toward my husband and only wanted what was good for myself.
needless to say, when i started to take it again in 2001, my husband was extremely upset with me. but i stop taking it after a month due to sexual side effects (which definitly not there the first time). BUT it did feel entergetic & basically good.
i'm trying wellbutrin now.amie
Posted by Roo on July 23, 2001, at 8:02:54
In reply to Re: Listening to Prozac vs your own experiences, posted by akrake on July 23, 2001, at 7:35:20
I am suspicious of all those books--the ones that
damn prozac, and the ones that praise it.Prozac's been good to me--but as you say--at a big
cost (my sexuality). I've had to make that sacrifice
b/c I don't want to live my life feeling like shit, and
I've tried a lot of other drugs that just don't work
for me (wellbutrin and serzone made me feel worse,
unfortunately)...so I feel like I'm stuck with it
until I find something better or they invent something
new that agrees with me. The sacrifice comes at a
big cost and I grieve it almost daily, but I just can't
live with the alternative (feeling suicidily miserable).
Posted by Joy on July 23, 2001, at 8:52:03
In reply to Re: Listening to Prozac vs your own experiences » Joy, posted by adamie on July 22, 2001, at 19:53:05
I feel emotionally stronger. There are still times I might get momentarily annoyed [usually if I watch TV news] but I don't have that terrible emotional pain. It is a much easier way to live. I still laugh a lot and am generally happier, and somehow keep an open heart. I find with feelings of love, it is the same with the exception that I can unconsciously hold back intense romantic feelings until I know it's pretty permanent. I still have a good time, but I don't get really angry or hurt if things don't go the way I'd like. For me though, I've had to go to 60 mgs. 40 mgs worked pretty good, but 50 is the dose for me. Others need less. A little 'numbing' [if that's what it is] gives me a much happier life.
Joy
> > Joe,
> > This is just my opinion but I've been on Paxil, Serzone, Zoloft, Celexa and Prozac. I am now on Prozac 6 months [now at 60 mg which works very well]. I am somehow insulated from the anxiety and hyper-sensitivity that I've always had. I have also read 'Listening to Prozac'. I believe that Prozac works for more people that the other SSRIs. MOST people do not gain weight on Prozac, but they sure do on Paxil and Zoloft. IMHO Prozac is a better med for MOST people. My boyfriend broke off with me with no explanation after several months. I am able to accept it with an open heart and just wish him the best and move on. I would have been hysterical, freaking out, taking many months to recover before I was on Prozac, and I just don't want to live that way. I know it's not for everyone, but I have lost about 6 lbs. I have a friend on Prozac 11 years with no weight gain. We both take something for insomnia, but I have no real bad side effects from Prozac. Serzone agitated me terribly and Paxil made me very hungry all the time. For my money, the right dose of Prozac helps a lot of people compared to the newer SSRIs. Just my humble opinion........
> > Joy
>
> hi Joy. My concern has been with the ssri numbing effect. Have you been able to accept that break-up so well due to what could be a mild apathy or just simply because with prozac your outlook on life and everything in general is much more positive?
>
> I was always been concerned with the emotional side of ssri's. but prozac does seem to be different in many cases and seemingly the more effective ssri from the group.
>
> with your prozac are you able to feel a very wide range of emotions? How about full and intense loving emotions?
>
> It's good to know it has worked well for you. Prozac is one of my future choices if I dont find relief from wellbutrin.
Posted by kid_A on July 23, 2001, at 13:47:51
In reply to Listening to Prozac vs your own experiences, posted by Joe Schmoe on July 22, 2001, at 16:08:29
> For those people who have read "Listening to Prozac," I am interested in hearing your reaction to taking SSRIs compared to the case studies in the book. In the book, a number of individuals suddenly go from depressed, inhibited, sensitive, shy etc. to being popular, dynamic, attractive
I don't know -any- drug that makes you more -attractive- maybe it makes you less aware of your physical shortcommings... Anyways, What are we taking these drugs for? For the person who followed up, I don't understand not wanting to be depressed, yet wanting to be shy... There is a big difference between being reserved and being shy... When you are reserved, you have the option of talking to someone or not, depending on your mood, or weather the person is even worth your effort... Being shy means that you are more intimidated than actually having a choice...
I have always been a dynamic person, somewhat, within my limits, I now feel like I don't have any restrictions about talking to people, or general anxiety about human contact that I didnt wish to commiserate... I feel more free rather than numbed or deadened, and I havent even reached a point where the AD I am taking is at a therapeutic dosage...
Furthermore, though it may not be so, if I never cry due to some loss again, I will not miss that emotion... I still can feel emotion, I can feel great joy in a number of things tha I do, but If I can't feel sadness to the extreme that I felt it before, something so horrible that I had no idea how I was going to make it through the night until you cry yourself to sleep on the floor of your room... If I never experience even a tenth of that again, I will feel no loss.
just my 2 cents...
ps. i've only read excerpts of the book, and I don't take Prozac so... my opinion may be worth f@ck all.... :)
Posted by adamie on July 24, 2001, at 17:54:42
In reply to Re: Listening to Prozac vs your own experiences, posted by kid_A on July 23, 2001, at 13:47:51
> > For those people who have read "Listening to Prozac," I am interested in hearing your reaction to taking SSRIs compared to the case studies in the book. In the book, a number of individuals suddenly go from depressed, inhibited, sensitive, shy etc. to being popular, dynamic, attractive
>
> I don't know -any- drug that makes you more -attractive- maybe it makes you less aware of your physical shortcommings... Anyways, What are we taking these drugs for? For the person who followed up, I don't understand not wanting to be depressed, yet wanting to be shy... There is a big difference between being reserved and being shy... When you are reserved, you have the option of talking to someone or not, depending on your mood, or weather the person is even worth your effort... Being shy means that you are more intimidated than actually having a choice...
>
> I have always been a dynamic person, somewhat, within my limits, I now feel like I don't have any restrictions about talking to people, or general anxiety about human contact that I didnt wish to commiserate... I feel more free rather than numbed or deadened, and I havent even reached a point where the AD I am taking is at a therapeutic dosage...
>
> Furthermore, though it may not be so, if I never cry due to some loss again, I will not miss that emotion... I still can feel emotion, I can feel great joy in a number of things tha I do, but If I can't feel sadness to the extreme that I felt it before, something so horrible that I had no idea how I was going to make it through the night until you cry yourself to sleep on the floor of your room... If I never experience even a tenth of that again, I will feel no loss.
>
> just my 2 cents...Numbing works both ways. I would personally hate to have any sort of numbing effect on me even if it were to be mild.
Sure with this 'numbing' you may not be able to feel extremely sad due to an unfortunate life event, but this will limit your ability to experience great joy.
Any sort of numbing in itself I would find more depressing for me.
We really need to ask ourselves what type of depression do we have here? Being sad due to negative life events is normal. This is supossed to happen. If not then it's not human. People need to deal with their problems properly. Sadness in itself is not depression. Oh well I forgot what I wanted to say.
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.