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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Tamara Bennett on February 21, 2001, at 14:43:27
> Did you withdraw from Effexor properly?
> Effexor is not addictive; this is a proven fact.
Do you work for Wyeth-Ayerst? That's the only logical conclusion I can make after reading this self-contradictory post. If you're withdrawing from something then you're dependent on it. And dependence is addiction. There IS addiction, there IS withdrawal, and almost anyone who has had to go off of the drug will tell you that.
Posted by Cam W. on February 21, 2001, at 17:58:20
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR?, posted by Tamara Bennett on February 21, 2001, at 14:43:27
> > Did you withdraw from Effexor properly?
>
> > Effexor is not addictive; this is a proven fact.
>
> Do you work for Wyeth-Ayerst? That's the only logical conclusion I can make after reading this self-contradictory post. If you're withdrawing from something then you're dependent on it. And dependence is addiction. There IS addiction, there IS withdrawal, and almost anyone who has had to go off of the drug will tell you that.
Tamara - Could you define addiction? I am at a loss as how to Effexor causes drug-seeking behavior or how it affects the body's reward system (mesolimbic dopamine pathways - esp the nucleus accumbens) to cause one to binge on it or crave it.Your logic on dependence is also faulty. The neurotransmitter systems involved in withdrawing from drugs of abuse (dopamine) differ from those of withdrawing from Effexor (serotonin and perhaps, but unlikely, norepinephrine).
No, I don't work for Wyeth-Ayerst. Do you work for NIDA? - Cam W.
Posted by Lorraine on February 21, 2001, at 19:36:07
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawl (sigh!) » Tamara Bennett, posted by Cam W. on February 21, 2001, at 17:58:20
> No, I don't work for Wyeth-Ayerst. Do you work for NIDA? - Cam W.
Cam--who or what is NIDA?
Posted by Cam W. on February 21, 2001, at 20:17:51
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawl (sigh!), posted by Lorraine on February 21, 2001, at 19:36:07
> > No, I don't work for Wyeth-Ayerst. Do you work for NIDA? - Cam W.
>
> Cam--who or what is NIDA?NIDA - National Institute on Drug Abuse
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 22, 2001, at 1:51:11
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR?, posted by Tamara Bennett on February 21, 2001, at 14:43:27
> > Do you work for Wyeth-Ayerst? That's the only logical conclusion I can make after reading this self-contradictory post. If you're withdrawing from something then you're dependent on it. And dependence is addiction. There IS addiction, there IS withdrawal, and almost anyone who has had to go off of the drug will tell you that.
>
> Could you define addiction? I am at a loss as how to Effexor causes drug-seeking behavior or how it affects the body ... to cause one to binge on it or crave it.1. In other words, it depends on what you mean by "addiction". Sometimes a distinction is made between withdrawal = a physiological response like hot flashes and addiction = a behavioral response like bingeing on it. For example, see:
http://www.behavenet.com/capsules/disorders/sud.htm
2. Please don't accuse others of being self-contradictory or having faulty logic. Any follow-ups regarding this (as opposed to the above) should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration, thanks.
Bob
Posted by steve on February 26, 2001, at 16:38:27
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawl (sigh!) » Tamara Bennett, posted by Cam W. on February 21, 2001, at 17:58:20
>
>
>
> > > Did you withdraw from Effexor properly?
> >
> > > Effexor is not addictive; this is a proven fact.
> >
> > Do you work for Wyeth-Ayerst? That's the only logical conclusion I can make after reading this self-contradictory post. If you're withdrawing from something then you're dependent on it. And dependence is addiction. There IS addiction, there IS withdrawal, and almost anyone who has had to go off of the drug will tell you that.
>
>
> Tamara - Could you define addiction? I am at a loss as how to Effexor causes drug-seeking behavior or how it affects the body's reward system (mesolimbic dopamine pathways - esp the nucleus accumbens) to cause one to binge on it or crave it.
>
> Your logic on dependence is also faulty. The neurotransmitter systems involved in withdrawing from drugs of abuse (dopamine) differ from those of withdrawing from Effexor (serotonin and perhaps, but unlikely, norepinephrine).
>
> No, I don't work for Wyeth-Ayerst. Do you work for NIDA? - Cam W.Cam,
You might want to read Glenmullen's book. It describes the withdrawal syndrome associated with the SSRIs, which is also mentioned in the literature.
Posted by Cam W. on February 26, 2001, at 20:00:23
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawl (sigh!), posted by steve on February 26, 2001, at 16:38:27
> Cam,
>
> You might want to read Glenmullen's book. It describes the withdrawal syndrome associated with the SSRIs, which is also mentioned in the literature.Steve - I am well aware of serotonin withdrawl symptoms and it's treatment. I have been aware of it for at least the past 5 years. It is just a shame that many docs do not realize the extent of this problem and the simple methods used to treat it.
Wyeth-Ayerst has not been diligent enough in disseminating this knowledge because it could save a lot of grief. If you check the archives, I have, on several occasions given ways in combating serotonin syndrome, which incidentally has been seen with all serotonergic agents, but most commonly those with shorter half-lifes (Effexor, Paxil, and Zoloft are the three that I have seen problems with, most commonly).
When withdrawing from a serotonergic agent one must give the body time to readjust the concentration of certain serotonin receptors. This is easiestly done by substituting a long acting serotonergic agent (eg. Prozac) for the offending agent and slowly weaning from this long acting agent.
This method, in certain people, takes quite a bit of time to complete properly; possibly due to factors involving the slow down regulation of serotonin receptors in these people. Diligent monitoring by the physician can minimize many of the disturbing effects of serotonin withdrawl.
Sincerely - Cam
Posted by willow on February 26, 2001, at 22:12:50
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawl (sigh!) » steve, posted by Cam W. on February 26, 2001, at 20:00:23
I have wondered why there are so many people on the board who go "cold-turkey" when there have been so many threads concerning the best way to minimize problems when stopping these medications? And then want the medication withdrawn from the market?!
Posted by LD on February 27, 2001, at 11:50:05
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawl (SIGH!), posted by willow on February 26, 2001, at 22:12:50
Today is my 5th day with NO Effexor! I have weaned VERY slowly. I was at 225mg and over 3 months have gone down to nothing. Two weeks ago I added Prozac, first 10mg, now 20mg. I am having minimal withdrawel symptoms (compared to the horrible ones i've read about on this site). Some aggitation, joint pain, dizziness. But thats it. I hope that is it. I think if its done slow, and with the prozac help, its seems to not be that big of a deal. My advice, go slow.
ld
Posted by steve on February 28, 2001, at 4:36:45
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawl (sigh!) » steve, posted by Cam W. on February 26, 2001, at 20:00:23
When I was started on SSRIs, nobody told me that a) there was a withdrawal, and b) often times there was what babblers call a poop-out, and the Crusaders (or should I say Jihadis) in the War on Drugs (well some off-patent drugs) call habituation.
Don't get me wrong, I've seen SSRIs do a lot of good for many people, but I think it is cynical and unethical to pretend that on patent psychotropics don't have some of the same problems that cause others to be banned, ie withdrawal and habituation.
I would love to see NIDA perform some of its brain dead studies pertaining to addictiveness on SSRIs.
S.
> > Cam,
> >
> > You might want to read Glenmullen's book. It describes the withdrawal syndrome associated with the SSRIs, which is also mentioned in the literature.
>
> Steve - I am well aware of serotonin withdrawl symptoms and it's treatment. I have been aware of it for at least the past 5 years. It is just a shame that many docs do not realize the extent of this problem and the simple methods used to treat it.
>
> Wyeth-Ayerst has not been diligent enough in disseminating this knowledge because it could save a lot of grief. If you check the archives, I have, on several occasions given ways in combating serotonin syndrome, which incidentally has been seen with all serotonergic agents, but most commonly those with shorter half-lifes (Effexor, Paxil, and Zoloft are the three that I have seen problems with, most commonly).
>
> When withdrawing from a serotonergic agent one must give the body time to readjust the concentration of certain serotonin receptors. This is easiestly done by substituting a long acting serotonergic agent (eg. Prozac) for the offending agent and slowly weaning from this long acting agent.
>
> This method, in certain people, takes quite a bit of time to complete properly; possibly due to factors involving the slow down regulation of serotonin receptors in these people. Diligent monitoring by the physician can minimize many of the disturbing effects of serotonin withdrawl.
>
> Sincerely - Cam
This is the end of the thread.
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