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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Ingo on November 26, 2000, at 18:11:10
Hi,
I have tried various antidepressants within the past 12 months and none of them really worked. I read that adding thyroid hormones is a common way to turn non-responders into responders. Now I am wondering if there is such thing as a thyroid disorder (hypothyroidism etc.) that may keep one from getting any benefit from antidepressants?
Any advice is welcome!Ingo
Posted by Noa on November 27, 2000, at 7:39:27
In reply to thyroid hormone, hypothyroidism and response to AD, posted by Ingo on November 26, 2000, at 18:11:10
YES YES YES!!!!!
I was on ADs for several years, different combos, increasing doses, etc., but I did not start feeling better until my thyroid was properly treated.
Please see the Thyroid and Depression Folder at:
Posted by dove on November 29, 2000, at 12:02:45
In reply to Re: thyroid hormone, hypothyroidism and response to AD » Ingo, posted by Noa on November 27, 2000, at 7:39:27
Noa,
I'm going to have some questions for you in the next couple of months in regard to Thyroid disorders, enlarged thyroids, different diagnosing tests (including labs, sonograms, CAT-scans, biopsies, ect...), depression, Lymphoma, hypothyroidism, sleep apnea, and how or if any of these singular subjects are interconnected in any significant way. I'll be going through those egroups links and will hopefully have some thoughts to throw your way.
So, this is kind of like a heads-up or forewarning :-) I am so grateful for the time and effort you give to all of us, thank you ((Noa)) !!!
dove
Posted by Noa on November 30, 2000, at 7:19:21
In reply to Re: thyroid hormone, hypothyroidism and response to AD » Noa, posted by dove on November 29, 2000, at 12:02:45
Hi, Dove,
I will share what I know about thyroid, etc. --just ask.
However, my knowledge of thyroid issues is pretty limited to hypothyroid/depression. I know a bit about blood test results, etc., but I don't know much about sonograms, scans, etc. or anything to do with thyroid nodules, cancers, iodine treatments, etc. Still, I would be glad to help you locate this info.
This all makes me wonder what you are going through right now. You have also alluded to being under increased stressed. I hope you will feel free to reach out for support, as you have supported many of us many times.
Posted by Ingo on December 1, 2000, at 13:31:07
In reply to Re: thyroid hormone, hypothyroidism and response to AD » Ingo, posted by Noa on November 27, 2000, at 7:39:27
> YES YES YES!!!!!
>
> I was on ADs for several years, different combos, increasing doses, etc., but I did not start feeling better until my thyroid was properly treated.
>
> Please see the Thyroid and Depression Folder at:
>
> http://www.egroups.com/links/psycho-babble-tipsNoa, thanks for the link, it´s been very helpful! looks like i´m going through the same as you did..
Ingo
Posted by Noa on December 1, 2000, at 13:50:31
In reply to Re: thyroid hormone, hypothyroidism and response to AD, posted by Ingo on December 1, 2000, at 13:31:07
Glad to help. Keep us posted, ok?
Posted by SLS on December 1, 2000, at 15:39:58
In reply to Re: thyroid hormone, hypothyroidism and response to AD, posted by Noa on December 1, 2000, at 13:50:31
Hi Noa and all other wonderful people.I just like to stick my nose into thyroid things sometimes to remind people that thyroid hormones are often used as a drug when treating depression. That is to say, when using thyroid hormones to treat depression (both T3 and T4), blood levels are mostly irrelevant. These hormones are not used as supplements to normalize thyroid levels in the body. Thyroid hormones, when used to augment antidepressants, are titrated clinically just as are the antidepressants. You use as much as is necessary to produces a response without producing overt hyperthyroidism.
Noa, what consequences are there from taking too much T3 and T4? Personally, I benefited more from T4 (Synthroid) than T3 (Cytomel). Actually, Cytomel made my depression much worse.
- Scott
Posted by Noa on December 1, 2000, at 16:27:38
In reply to Re: thyroid hormone, hypothyroidism and response to AD, posted by SLS on December 1, 2000, at 15:39:58
Hey, Scott, I love it when you cut in!
My endo monitors the effectiveness of the synthroid and cytomel clinically, too, since my TSH is at or near 0 anyway. He told me to increase as long as it brings further benefit. If it does not add further benefit, return to the previous dose that added benefit.
I think most GPs do worry about inducing hyperthyroid, or causing osteoporosis, but my understanding (from reading Mary Shomon's book and Dr. Ridha Arem's book) is that having a low TSH does not itself cause higher risk for osteoporosis, that it is actually being in a state of hyperthyroidism that can cause osteoporosis.
It is so clear to me how crucial the thyroid hormones are to my feeling better. If you could have seen me before the increased doses, and now, after, the difference is very obvious. I was a mess. Depressed, fatigued, suicidal, foggy headed, unable to get any work done, unable to get to work on time, crying all the time, confused, achy, I could go on. Once the thyroid med increases kicked in, the depression lifted dramatically, as did the other symptoms. Things aren't perfect now, but a world of difference--no comparison.
Posted by SLS on December 2, 2000, at 23:07:42
In reply to Re: thyroid hormone, hypothyroidism and response to AD, posted by Noa on December 1, 2000, at 16:27:38
> It is so clear to me how crucial the thyroid hormones are to my feeling better. If you could have seen me before the increased doses, and now, after, the difference is very obvious. I was a mess. Depressed, fatigued, suicidal, foggy headed, unable to get any work done, unable to get to work on time, crying all the time, confused, achy, I could go on.
Dear Noa,I am so sorry that you had to experience this. It brings tears to my eyes.
> Once the thyroid med increases kicked in, the depression lifted dramatically, as did the other symptoms. Things aren't perfect now, but a world of difference--no comparison.
On the other hand, I am so glad to know how wonderfully different life is for you now. It brings smiles to my lips.
Otherwise, have a nice day.
:-)
- Scott
* I'm not sure why, but I was moved by your description. Perhaps it is because of its simplicity and honesty. Perhaps it is because I see so much of my own suffering contained within your words. Perhaps you caught me at a moment of emotional lability. Perhaps it is because of the feelings I have developed for you and for many others here. It is most definitely because I don't want anyone to experience, or to have ever experienced, what I have and still do.Perhaps my time will come soon. I pray so. If it does, I will want to take everyone else with me.
Posted by Noa on December 4, 2000, at 6:23:02
In reply to Re: thyroid hormone, hypothyroidism and response to AD, posted by SLS on December 2, 2000, at 23:07:42
Thank you Scott. I hope you find the thing that works for you.
Your love for this community shows---you add a lot to it!
Posted by JahL on December 6, 2000, at 17:48:31
In reply to Re: thyroid hormone, hypothyroidism and response to AD, posted by Noa on December 1, 2000, at 16:27:38
> I was a mess. Depressed, fatigued, suicidal, foggy headed, unable to get any work done, unable to get to work on time, crying all the time, confused, achy, I could go on.
Sounds familiar.
Once the thyroid med increases kicked in, the depression lifted dramatically, as did the other symptoms. Things aren't perfect now, but a world of difference--no comparison.
Hi Noa. I'm currently trialling T3 & T4 as a kind of last throw of the dice. Could you please tell me a) how long the thyroid took to begin kicking in & b) roughly what doses were required to feel the effect.
Also, does the thyroid help w/o the ADs?
Thanks,
Jah.
Posted by Noa on December 7, 2000, at 12:09:37
In reply to Re: thyroid hormone, hypothyroidism and response to AD » Noa, posted by JahL on December 6, 2000, at 17:48:31
> >Could you please tell me a) how long the thyroid took to begin kicking in & b) roughly what doses were required to feel the effect.
My pdoc had started me on cytomel (25 mcg, I think, maybe 12.5) as an augmentation strategy and it helped within a week. But some time later (a year or more?? Don't remember), I had more poop out. I think he may have upped the dose to 25. Later, with more poop out, and TSH tests still high-normal, he added synthroid (25 mcg). This worked for a while. More depression, we tried lithium. Improved for about 6 weeks, and then started to go downhill again. Also started having more pronounced hypothyroid symptoms, like edema, achy joints, extreme fatigue, dry skin, and severe brain fog, confusion, etc., as well as intensified depression. Concluded I was losing thyroid hormone response, because of the lithium. He suggested upping the thyroid hormones, but I wanted to stop the lithium and look more closely at the thyroid situation, which I did. Saw an endocrinologist who diagnosed primary hypothyroidism and recommended increasing the synthroid dose gradually as long as it produced further benefit. I now take 50 mcg. synthroid, and am still taking 25 mcg. cytomel, but now divide the cytomel dose, as I mentioned in another post. After a couple of weeks on this dose, I started to feel better. Continued improvement over a few months. I still feel continuing improvement, but now it seems like the improvement is not about the medication as much as the psychological improvement now that I have been functioning more normally for a few months.
> Also, does the thyroid help w/o the ADs?
I know that it could if the main issue is hypothyroidism. And, I have heard of kids with ADHD being treated with thyroid hormone only, and similar cases of depression. But for me, I really don't know for sure, since I haven't been on thyroid hormones without being on ADs, BUT, I seriously doubt the thyroid hormones alone would be sufficient for me. I am quite sure I also need the ADs.
Posted by dove on December 13, 2000, at 13:20:48
In reply to Re: thyroid hormone, hypothyroidism and response to AD » JahL, posted by Noa on December 7, 2000, at 12:09:37
This has to be quick, I'm so very overloaded with my Mom's Lymphoma situation at the moment.
I have to give my greatest gratitude to ((Noa)) for her gracious offering of insight and knowledge. You are such a pillar in this community, and I am so grateful for your friendship and your concern, and your voice, which is simply lovely!
((Scott)) you are truly an amazing creature, with so many unique facets, and so giving of yourself. Your genuineness and empathy, so freely shared, is astounding!
I have saved many posts from the archives, that I reread every once in awhile. Particularly when I need that lift, when the bottom drops a few feet lower and I'm hanging on by my nails, and both of your names come up quite often, your words bless me in ways I cannot explain.
I am simply and utterly grateful, I cannot clearly express the magnitude of these emotions, other than merely stating my absolute affection and devotion to the Psycho-babble family! I can drop in for a quick pit-stop, and stop in again for a complete overhaul, and there will always be family present.
With all my love,
~dove
p.s. I will still have questions about thyroid stuff in the near future, just not today, just too much for my emotional control center to handle I guess. Thanks everyone!!!
This is the end of the thread.
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