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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 6 of 6. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by dj on July 12, 2000, at 0:54:44
Noa,
In an earlier posting you noted that you had picked up one Dr. C's books on Flow. How goes it?
I had noted that I had written something about it some time back, contrasting the Seven Hallmarks of Flow with the Seven Hallmarks of Ambivalence which ofen is a reflection of a depressive mindset and experience. Here it is for you and others to compare, contrast and ponder, should you choose to do so:
Seven Hallmarks of Flow
1. Involved completely in what I am doing. Focused. Concentrated.
2. Sense of ecstasy; of being outside reality.
3. Great inner clarity. Knowing what needs to be done and how well I am doing.
4. Faith that the activity is doable; that my inner skills are adequate to the task.
5. Sense of serenity; no worries about myself. A feeling of growing beyond the boundaries of ego.
6. Timelessness. Thoroughly focused on the present. Hours seem to pass by in mere minutes.
7. Intrinsic motivation. Whatever produces flow becomes its own reward.
Seven Hallmarks of Ambivalence
1. Scattered.
2. Uncertain. Whose reality and what is real anyway?
3. Internal confusion and combustion. Certain that something needs to be done but uncertain what so alternates between activity and questioning activity and self. Uncertain how one is doing.
4. Doubtful that the task is worth doing or one is up to doing it,if one was to consider it worth doing.
5. Anxious. Hyper-sensitive. Many worries. Feeling very boundaried with ego running hot and cold...confident one moment, (k)not the
next...6. Oppressed by time ticking away, fleeting into the future and away from the past both of which weight heavily in the present.
7. Intrinsic de-motivation. Don't know whether to be, to do or to go do a doobie....or what???
Sante!
dj
Posted by Noa on July 12, 2000, at 15:29:03
In reply to Flow vs Ambivalence, etc...- Noa..., posted by dj on July 12, 2000, at 0:54:44
Thanks, dj.
I haven't picked the book up in a few days, but it has been on my mind, like I am mulling over the concepts in relation to everyday stuff. I have even discussed it with several freinds, in discussions about their self-doubting thoughts.
Posted by dj on July 12, 2000, at 18:07:34
In reply to Re: Flow vs Ambivalence, etc... ğ dj, posted by Noa on July 12, 2000, at 15:29:03
> I haven't picked the book up in a few days, but it has been on my mind, like I am mulling over the concepts in relation to everyday stuff. I have even discussed it with several freinds, in >discussions about their self-doubting thoughts.
I find the framework he presents helpful, though his prose is a bit heavy going at times. The graph of skills vs challenges he has (on pg. 31 of the paperback) plotted out with the flow state being down the centre and anxiety, boredom,etc. being on different extremes is a good one to ponder as are the 7 Hallmarks!
Let us know of any grand insights that arise from your considertion of the concepts. In the meantime dooby, dooby do... ; )
Sante!
dj
Posted by paul on July 13, 2000, at 0:03:51
In reply to Flow vs Ambivalence, etc...- Noa..., posted by dj on July 12, 2000, at 0:54:44
there's a very important hallmark missing here-
inherent in the true flow state is an extreme minimizing of outside stimuli-a degree of annhialation in which the outside, non-flow related world doesn't exist. as a former rock climber and a frequent participant in the flow state, i offer this example: there were many times when the world was condensed into nothing more than the six inches of rock in front of my nose-you could have hit me w/a 2x4 and i wouldn't have flinched, noticed,or remembered.
pcl
Posted by dj on July 13, 2000, at 13:01:09
In reply to Re: Flow vs Ambivalence, etc...- Noa..., posted by paul on July 13, 2000, at 0:03:51
> there's a very important hallmark missing here-
> inherent in the true flow state is an extreme minimizing of outside stimuli-a degree of annhialation in which the outside, non-flow >related world doesn't exist.1. Involved completely in what I am doing. Focused. Concentrated.
Perhaps the above does not sufficiently capture the flavour or what you are noting, but the book does and so does the below from:
http://www.flownetwork.com/
Where they focus on things such as the following:
"Welcome to the Flow Zone, a flow learning environment designed both to highlight some of the key information about the flow experience, and provide a vehicle for you to do some deep thinking about how you can apply it to your daily life. In addition, Flow Zone encourages you to compare and aggregate your experiences and feedback to these ideas and questions in our Flow Forum.
THE EIGHT COMPONENTS OF ENJOYMENT
After collecting more than 8,000 interviews of people from all parts of the world, we have found that they report eight essential components which make up an enjoyable flow experience. The components are:
1) A Clear Goal,
2) Feedback,
3) Challenges Match Skills,
4) Concentration and Focus,
5) Control,
6) Loss of Self Consciousness,
7) Transformation of Time and
8) Activity becomes Autotelic.As you increase these eight different key factors, you'll find more flow in your everyday life.
Zone 2: Feedback
You need feedback to be able to tell if you are getting closer to your goal or not. Again, in a sport like tennis, you can see immediately if you hit the ball well. When playing a musical instrument you can hear if you hit the wrong note.
Almost any kind of feedback can be enjoyable if it related to your goal. In gardening, you can see how your plants are growing. In a conversation with a friend, his or her response becomes your feedback.
When you are working against a deadline you can measure progress in terms of the amount of work you have completed in a certain time period. When there is no external information that tells you how well you are doing, itıs important to learn how to give feedback to yourself. For this, you have to develop clear internal standards so youıll know when you are doing well, and when you are falling short of your own goals.
Questions to ask yourself.Are you paying enough attention to what goes on around you to tell whether your actions have intended consequences?
Do you correct your actions when you see that they are not working out?
Do you feel good about yourself when what you do works out?"
Posted by paul on July 13, 2000, at 23:51:12
In reply to Re: Flow Hallmark - #1, - Paul, posted by dj on July 13, 2000, at 13:01:09
as it turns out, csiksentmihalyi's (sp pls???) book on flow was the ONLY worthwhile thing in my abortive gradschool career so i ate it up. he spent a lot of time talking about how the evaluative mind is turned off when in a true flow state. sure was true on the rock, just as it is in improvised music, recumbent cycling, and a host of other things. this switching off of the evaluative mind is one of the stronger components of the true flow state that continually draws me to it. that and time compression.
p(c(l))
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