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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 7 of 7. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Mary-Anne on January 27, 2000, at 12:39:59
I am a Computer Engineer, and take Wellbutrin SR to
treat depression. I used to combine it with various
things to deal with sleep disturbances and anxiety,
but I no longer seem to need those. I also have
sleep apnea and expect to begin using a CPAP soon.I just got a bad review at work due to things I say
which I do not mean negatively, but they are taken
that way. Other people's reactions are similar
to what was described in "Tips" under "irritability",
but I do not experience it that way. I was accused
of being a know-it-all, but again I don't feel like
one. My PDoc smiled when I decribed job situations,
and said I did similar things in therapy.
He called it being very competitive. When I
described the work situation to people outside
work, they said I came across as abrasive and
negative about it.Celexa, which I previously tried for anxiety,
made me dizzy, so we're trying adding very
low dose Paxil to the Wellbutrin SR instead.
I am concerned about the Paxil reducing my
libido but I hope a lower dose won't.There are lots of people who will accept money
promising to teach interpersonal skills to
Engineers, but the quality of what they teach
varies a lot and it is often hard to tell
if any of them are any good.Is this an untreated aspect of depression
(as described in Tips)? Is there any
collective experience on what drugs work
well with Wellbutrin if it is?Is this a set of skills I can learn? Is there
any collective experience in how these skills
can be learned?Or is this just the way my personality is wired,
and there's not much that can be done about it?Thanks for your help.
Posted by Noa on January 27, 2000, at 13:53:53
In reply to Irritability or ??? on the Job, posted by Mary-Anne on January 27, 2000, at 12:39:59
Of course you can do something about it. Group therapy can be very helpful--you get lots of in-vivo feedback, and get to try to modify your actions and reactions right away.
Posted by dj on January 27, 2000, at 14:21:36
In reply to Re: Irritability or ??? on the Job, posted by Noa on January 27, 2000, at 13:53:53
Irratability is noted on some sites, and possibly in the DSM as an indicator for depression and if you are feeling crappy why wouldn't you be irritated. The negative side effects of some ADs can contribute to that. Certainly I felt off on Wellbutrin though it helped in some ways.
The 5HTP/St. John's Wort combo which is discussed above can be a bit easier on you than some of the ADs, though you have to be very careful about the quality of the products you purchase as many manufacturers don't deliver what they promise, as with SAME, vitamins, etc. Dr. Michael Murray has written a book on 5HTP in which he discusses dosages and usage with SJW, and he also has an on-line site with some info. on it.
Having noted all that, as Noa rightfully indicated there are various things you can do to 'lighten' your approach to dealing with other folks. Group approaches can be helpful, if they are well developed and facilitated, for providing feedback. Some organizations that offer very, good programs on group dynamics include but are not limited to the following:
http://www.pdseminars.com/
&
http://www.contextassociated.comBoth are quite good in different ways and if neither is convenient of of interest, check around your community.
Also, a very good book on this issue is:
People Skills by Robert Bolton.Cheers!
Posted by Janice on January 27, 2000, at 19:02:48
In reply to Re: Irritability or ??? on the Job & dealing with , posted by dj on January 27, 2000, at 14:21:36
Mary Anne,
Irritability can also be a sign of ADHD or bipolar tendancies. I can feel irritable when my phone rings. Not being able to control your reactions is an impulse control problem.
I learnt alot at group therapy, i.e., that keeping a pleasant look on my face helps the way people respond to me. I still think it's stupid (the pleasant face thing), but it works. Group therapy can be great. Hoping to help, Janice
Posted by Mary-Anne on January 28, 2000, at 12:16:48
In reply to Re: Irritability or ??? on the Job & dealing with , posted by Janice on January 27, 2000, at 19:02:48
Thank-you for the feedback.
More suggestions would be welcome.I looked at the URLs dj suggested,
and I could not tell from the descriptions
which of the offerings would apply in my
case. Maybe the descriptions don't make
this obvious, or maybe I was being dense.
Would you care to be more precise in
what you were suggesting?I have friends who describe themselves as
having ADHD, and I thought I knew what that
was, and I was under the impression I did
not have it. Ditto bipolar. Could be wrong.The Saint John's Wort probably should not
be combined with the drugs I am taking without
telling the pdoc. If the Paxil does not work,
I may look into that. I have heard the American
herbs are rather inconsistent on dosage, and
that the more expensive German imports are
better in that respect.The best solution I have found yet is a book,
_What_Your_Boss_Doesn't_Tell_You_until_it's
too_late_. The wife of the late author
(who was also his co-author) may suggest
a coach to work with.Thanks again.
Posted by dj on January 28, 2000, at 12:52:36
In reply to Re: Irritability or ??? on the Job & dealing with , posted by Mary-Anne on January 28, 2000, at 12:16:48
> I looked at the URLs dj suggested,
> and I could not tell from the descriptions
> which of the offerings would apply in my
> case. Maybe the descriptions don't make
> this obvious, or maybe I was being dense.
> Would you care to be more precise in
> what you were suggesting?Mary-Anne,
The urls I noted are just examples of organizations I am aware of that offer quality programs that help one focus on human dynamics.
PD Seminars has many offerings of first rate programs, which people from around the world come to paricipate in. One of the core programs is called Come Alive and you can check out the program section of the site for more details on that. Perhaps even more applicable to you and the other folks here is their Disengaging Depression program. Here's a bit on it from:
http://www.pdseminars.com/PD_Seminars/des_prog.html#depression
"DO YOU:
struggle to feel good about yourself?
judge yourself harshly?
feel sad, tearful or emotionally shut down?
find people and life generally boring or irritating?
increasingly opt out of activities and contact and seek isolation?
feel numb, tired and helpless?
experience disturbing changes in sleep and eating patterns?
feel exhausted and without energy?
IF SO, READ ON!You may have been prompted to pick up this brochure because you are depressed or have worked your way out of depression and want to focus on prevention. It may be that you are concerned for someone you know who is depressed, or you are a professional working with people experiencing depression.
The effects of depression are, at the least, troubling because of low energy, increased anxiety and a sense of losing control of your life. Sometimes, depression deepens as symptoms spread, seriously impacting personal contact and leading to isolation. Although medication is often useful, it requires customizing and monitoring; you may be wanting additional or alternative interventions.
We believe that with a conscious commitment, it is possible to interrupt depression.
Disengaging Depression will provide experiences to mobilize breath and energy, access feelings and creativity, enjoy the pleasure of body movement and look at personal belief systems that support depression.
Our bodies are the physical manifestation of all dimensions of the human being. When feelings and thoughts go unexpressed, our bodies speak out through symptoms and illness. Over time, patterns develop that fuel depression. The body tightens and stills to keep feelings in check and energy becomes bound. Numbness and helplessness occur and may combine with anxiety, negativity or irritability. At times it becomes difficult to focus and make decisions.
During these five days of education and experiential learning, you will gain a wide variety of take-home skills to facilitate either your personal or professional life. We will be learning to experience "flex" (contraction and expansion) through breath, movement, beliefs, creativity and fun. There will be opportunities to practice communication skills, effective boundaries and to acknowledge and express feelings safely in an atmosphere of respectful, personal contact.
The Leaders:
Joann S. Peterson, MSW., ACSW, Dip.C. has worked extensively in California and Washington with families and adults in crisis, particularly related to issues of family violence, foster home and adoption placement, separation and loss and attention deficit disorders with or without depression; she consults with agencies about clinical interventions and crisis management as well as providing workshops for the staff in professional and personal development. Having supervised and trained professionals in the mental health field for over twenty years, she is the Director of Education at PD Seminars for which she also leads an extensive variety of groups.Linda Nicholls, Dip.C., is a group leader at PD Seminars, also leading groups across Canada and in Asia. The groups focus on a range of topics, including shadow and personal mythology exploration, effective boundaries, separation and loss, mirroring, and bodywork training. She also leads Come Alive and Teens Alive. She has an extensive background in business and management, and has been General Manager of PD Seminars and Haven By-the-Sea for over ten years.
Judith Lemon, M.A., C.E.A.P., CHMC is a counsellor in private practice in the State of Washington working with Depression, Anxiety and Life Stress issues. As Director of an Employee Assistance Program she provides training and consultation to a variety of businesses in areas of stress management, communication and trauma in the workplace. Her areas of interest include working with bio-behavioral health issues, pain management, Critical Stress Debriefing, EMDR and grief/loss counselling."
These folks are real compassionate professionals. Great place & great programs!!!
Context Associated I wouldn't also offers some good programs but not as specific, more general and more analytical on some levels and perhaps a good place for some to start from. Here's a different link from that site, with a few details on thier Pursuit of Excellence program which would help address some of the issues you noted:
http://www.contextassociated.com/products/poe.html
"The Pursuit of Excellence
Immediately enrich your life by choosing your context and improving you communication and relationship skills.
The Pursuit of Excellence is the first seminar in Context's series of courses. It is a stimulating results-oriented course that prepares you to take the next step in your life with excellence. In it, you will have the opportunity to look at your life from different perspectives and make some choices in order to be even more effective.
Through exercises, lectures and discussions, you increase your mastery of immediately useful skills... such as establishing agreement, focusing on solutions, handling conflict and working as part of a team. In addition to learning new skills, you learn how to be more successful and satisfied by further developing the abilities and strengths you already possess.
You are presented with the opportunity to look at self-limiting attitudes, habits and patterns, and to examine different points of view to find out if they are more effective for you. You expand your context to allow yourself to be, do and have more of what you want. You learn an amazing amount about people, which will serve you in personal and professional interactions with others."
Posted by Diane on February 2, 2000, at 11:42:04
In reply to Re: Irritability or ??? on the Job & dealing with , posted by dj on January 27, 2000, at 14:21:36
JUST AN IDEA/POSSIBILITY
Estrogen, a cure for aggression?
Boston, MA. November 9, 1999 -- Estrogen has been considered a tranquilizer, mood enhancer
and a "feel good" hormone by many. After all waitresses get their best tips during the first two
weeks of their cycle when estrogen levels are highest. Women are more outgoing and have a
positive outlook on life during this time as well. Conversely PMS occurs in the second two weeks
when estrogen levels are dropping and remain low. Now a study has been published in the fall issue
of The American Journal of Geriatric Psychiatry on this subject. Dr. Helen H. Kyomen from
Harvard Medical School has concluded that estrogen reduces aggressive behavior in at least one
very specific group of people. She studied a group of 14 elderly patients with some degree of
senility. After 4 weeks of daily estrogen therapy, Premarin 0.625 mg to 2.5 mg, a significant
decrease in aggressive behavior was noted. The decrease in aggression was fairly rapid and the two
men included in the study showed the same effect. The author, a psychiatrist, suggested that
estrogen be used to treat aggressive behavior in elderly senile patients.
Make of this what you may.
As more studies are done on aggression we may see estrogen recommended for used on prison
inmates, juvenile delinquents or even political dissidents who knows where these finding may lead.Am J Geriatr Psychiatry 1999;7:339-348.
I know sense I started taking DHEA I'm not as quick to angre or ruminate on my negitive situation.
I do feel better.
Have your Doc run a blood test to see where you stand hormonally. Ya never know...it's worth looking into, in my opinion anyway.> I was accused of being a know-it-all, but again I don't feel like one.
I know what it's like to be misunderstood. I've been told I come off as aloof when in actual fact I'm shaking in my boots from feelings of inferiority! Scared I'll open my mouth and expose my low IQ or depression problem.
Take care
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