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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 6 of 6. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Racer on October 3, 2006, at 17:19:09
I'm going off Wellbutrin, hoping that'll improve the chance of pregnancy. So far, while there's no real withdrawal, it's otherwise hellish. Guess what, Everyone? I'm depressed again, already, and I'm not even all the way off it.
Although, things were going that way on it, too.
All of which is doing terrible things to me. For one thing, if it's this bad now, why on earth am I trying to have a child?
You know what? I'm not going to finish this post, but I will post it as a check in here. I've been doing this a lot lately -- halfway writing a post, or a response, and then just giving up; wanting to say something, then deciding it's not worth it. And I can't seem to do anything at all. I'm also at the edge of wanting to quit therapy. At least that's something I can bring up this week -- give me something to talk about...
Posted by finelinebob on October 3, 2006, at 23:55:09
In reply to I dunno..., posted by Racer on October 3, 2006, at 17:19:09
Ok, so it's in our genes. But there is very, very little about genetics that is predetermined. Or, rather, there is an incredible amount of genetics that is predetermined. I've heard it said that we can have more genetically in common with a particular chimpanzee than a particular other human. Doesn't seem likely, but....
Even if it is predetermined, geez Racer, you've been around here so long giving so much ... and I don't know about you in person, but biology doesn't determine everything. I suspect you've got "RL" friends like mine, who constantly are telling me positive, wonderful things about me that I can't believe myself. I decided that I might not be the best judge of my own character and to take what they say seriously.
I'd love to have a child, not just because all I've learned and who I've become because of my disorder, but because if that child should start going through the same things I'd be there to help. Certainly, there are "coins" with "heads" on both sides and "tails" on both sides -- people who really do have all the good things and people who do have all the bad things; but my experiences in grad school tended to indicate that the most gifted people were the ones facing the biggest personal challenges as well.
If I could have a child who could realize the potential I had but lost because I didn't get the help I needed in time, even if that child faces the same or similar chances -- it would all be worth it ... to the world in general, to that child's friends and family, but particularly to that child, my child.
Yeah, and to me.
Posted by Racer on October 4, 2006, at 14:46:24
In reply to I do know... » Racer, posted by finelinebob on October 3, 2006, at 23:55:09
What you wrote, about being able to give your child the help you didn't get, certainly enters into it for me. Maybe that's a lousy reason to want children, but you know what? The one constant in my life is that I ALWAYS wanted children. In fact, there have been times when that's the ONLY thing that's kept me from suicide -- that I hadn't had children yet. That if I died then, I'd die a true failure, since I hadn't even achieved biological success.
And now, it seems I can't have children anyway. We haven't quite given up yet, but it's just not happening. And I don't think I can go without at least Wellbutrin. I can't even function right now, on 150mg -- although I think I could at least do a hell of a lot better if I had some help, some support, in real life. Too bad I ain't got that, huh?
Which, of course, also doesn't bode well for childrearing...
I dunno...
Thanks for answering, though. Have I mentioned it's great to see you back?
Posted by finelinebob on October 4, 2006, at 23:40:16
In reply to You made me cry » finelinebob, posted by Racer on October 4, 2006, at 14:46:24
> That if I died then, I'd die a true failure, since I hadn't even achieved biological success.
That's why I went into physics. Biology just messes with your head. "Evolutionary perogatives" and all that rot. But wanting someone to care for is an excellent reason to stay alive. Knowing Leyna depends on me -- doesn't matter who else does -- that's enough for me.
> ... although I think I could at least do a hell of a lot better if I had some help, some support, in real life. Too bad I ain't got that, huh?I wouldn't know. But I **know** that I wouldn't know, if it were me. So I don't trust me to know, and rely on the word of others who can prove me wrong on a regular basis. Whenever I feel like I have no one on I whom I can depend, I treat that information as suspect.
> Which, of course, also doesn't bode well for childrearing...It doesn't take a village, but it takes more than one. Usually the same ones who can prove you wrong about not having anyone you can depend on.
> I dunno...Neither do I.
I was talking with my T about Landmark Education -- the kinder, gentler child of EST. I have a friend all caught up in Landmark, and knowing some Buddhism, knowing the purpose of koans and how they're confused as "Socratic teaching", and knowing some Heidegger, it's rather amusing to see what it's all turned into. But the going back to EST, I've read how the founder's purpose in create his methodology was to "raise" people's consciousness to the point that they "get it". And what was it that they were supposed to "get"?
That there was no "it".
That was EST's path to Enlightenment. Landmark talks about it as being able to create your own meaning out of anything you experience. It's a bastardization and corruption of Buddhist Enlightenment and most certainly the same of Heidegger's Dasein (literally, "being there" or being-in-the-world ... that movie title and Peter Seller's behavior didn't come out of nothing or pure whimsy).
I'm reading Thich Nhat Hanh right now, someone described as the closest we have to a living Buddha in the present moment -- but THAT is the point. All we have is this present moment. We say when we get this degree we'll be happy. Then we say when we get this job that pays better we'll be happy. Then a house, then a nice car, and we keep putting off being happy, never really being alive in the present moment. Dasein not as something objective, but rooted in what it means to "be" and therefore subjective, metaphysical.
It's so damn hard...hell, I can't even clean my apartment and finish unpacking and I just got my lease renewal in the mail. But the only thing you can count on is being alive this moment, and by the time you've read this that moment has irretrievably passed and we're on to yet another moment.
So, how do you want to live in this moment?
For me, I dunno ... that's why I pay my T ridiculous amounts of money and swallow eight pills a day minimum to alter my state of consciousness. It's why I'm studying classical guitar and it's why I look at the mess occupying the place I want my music space to be and feel terrified by it. It's why I practice Buddhist mediation and why I try to put aside the "sword I carry in my heart" so that I can become a convinced Quaker, and not one by association.
>
> Thanks for answering, though. Have I mentioned it's great to see you back?
Posted by Racer on October 5, 2006, at 1:46:10
In reply to Re: You made me cry » Racer, posted by finelinebob on October 4, 2006, at 23:40:16
> >
>
> > ... although I think I could at least do a hell of a lot better if I had some help, some support, in real life. Too bad I ain't got that, huh?
>
> I wouldn't know. But I **know** that I wouldn't know, if it were me. So I don't trust me to know, and rely on the word of others who can prove me wrong on a regular basis. Whenever I feel like I have no one on I whom I can depend, I treat that information as suspect.That makes sense, and I generally agree. Problem is -- I know my life. I know that there's no one I can call in this area to help me. I know that my husband says -- over and over again -- that he wants to do everything to help me. And that's all he does. Says it. It's a major problem right now, in this general set of moments, because -- (I just realized why is an overshare and quite disgusting. It involves a sick cat and an infected toe and the need to clean things...)
That was part of the topic in marriage counseling tonight. The fact that I'm pretty much alone, trying to deal with depression, not functioning, and grief. Without help, because my husband isn't even near the same page. Which is something that adds to teh grief.
> All we have is this present moment. We say when we get this degree we'll be happy. Then we say when we get this job that pays better we'll be happy. Then a house, then a nice car, and we keep putting off being happy, never really being alive in the present moment.
This is one of my rotating signature lines for my email:
There is no heroic poem in the world but is at bottom a biography, the life of a man; also, it may be said there is no life of a man, faithfully recorded, but is a heroic poem of its sort, rhymed or unrhymed.
Thomas Carlyle in essay on Sir Walter ScottTo me, the message I've always gotten is that there's no point in asking, "Are you happy?" The answer ATTHISVERYMINUTE is too changeable -- the really important question is, "Taken together, has your life overall been happier than not?" I know that sounds the opposite of what you wrote, but I think of it as meaning something very similar. AT least, to me, the meanings are quite similar.
Ironically, considering my depression etc, in many ways my life has been happier than not. Funny, huh? (Y'all mostly only see me when I'm in a "not" phase, you know. That's part of why it doesn't seem that way to you...)
Take care. And thank you.
Posted by Shar on October 6, 2006, at 18:02:24
In reply to I dunno..., posted by Racer on October 3, 2006, at 17:19:09
Racer,
Many women have had wonderful babies and had to go off meds. You probably remember some. And, even some not from pregnancy onward, but just had little ones.I'm not saying it's easy, but I believe it's do-able. And, stopping therapy...well, I can't really see that helping. If what you want is a baby, you have lots of time--at this point--to move things into place that will be supportive to you.
Even if a community group, or talking to other folks here who've had that experience, and learning from them. But, the bottom line is, it's up to you to get things lined out, if that's what you really want.
But, that just may be me. My son was a totally unexpected event, prior to therapy/meds/etc. You have a chance to make a whole different scenario, if you want. And, there's a big difference between 'say' and 'do' when it comes to support, and you get to talk about that now...before the 'do' (or lack thereof) becomes an important factor.
Anyhow, you are not alone! Don't give up on yourself!
xoxoxo
Shar
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