![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 29 to 53 of 81. Go back in thread:
Posted by winddancer on March 25, 2005, at 19:37:58
In reply to Re: About the Effexor XR Withdrawal, posted by SLS on March 25, 2005, at 19:03:36
Scott,
You seem to have a more indepth knowledge about this drug and the specifics about the way the medicine works, etc. What is your training/background??I am currently doing reasonably well with spreading out my doses of Effexor. I'm feeling very disorganized and a little anxious from that but I'm not sure if it's circumstantial or because of the withdrawal since it's been a long year - its almost difficult to remember what normal feels like. Since I live alone its difficult to get an outside opinion. The thing that frustrates me a lot is the feeling of cold hands/feet or numbness, what did you call it? parestasis? I took reg dose of benedryl - it doesn't seem to make me too sleepy during the day so I might use it more often in the day. I've taken 2 doses of the 1/4 cap of 75 SR Effexor today and hope I can stick to that.
Keep in touch.
winddancer
Posted by SLS on March 26, 2005, at 8:32:19
In reply to Re: About the Effexor XR Withdrawal » SLS, posted by winddancer on March 25, 2005, at 19:37:58
Hi WD.
> You seem to have a more indepth knowledge about this drug and the specifics about the way the medicine works, etc. What is your training/background??
I'm a college drop-out. :-(
I couldn't complete my junior year. My depression became so severe, that I could no longer read, learn, and remember well enough to pass my classes. I was a 4.0 before things turned so foul on me.
Like almost every other knowledgable person here - and the majority are - I was forced to learn things at that point when my doctors ran out of ideas.
> I am currently doing reasonably well with spreading out my doses of Effexor.
I'm disappointed to hear that you are not doing better than "reasonably".
> I'm feeling very disorganized and a little anxious from that but I'm not sure if it's circumstantial or because of the withdrawal since it's been a long year
Do you feel nervous or jittery? Do your hands shake? Are you sweating? Mental confusion? Dizzy? These things can be signs of withdrawal. If so, don't try pushing the dosage of Effexor down too fast.
I hope these things disappear so that you can begin to reduce further.
Yes, the numbness and tingling can be the parasthesia associated with withdrawal.
Do you notice a lessening of these symptoms immediately after taking a dose of Effexor (30-60 minutes)? If so, it would be advisable to remain at the 37.5 for a bit longer. Get those 25mg tablets! 12.5 x 3 times a day = 37.5mg! Hopefully, you will reach a point of being symptom-free. I know it is difficult to differentiate how much anxiety is biological and how much is situational right now, but you shouldn't have shaking hands and paresthesias if they weren't present before attempting to reduce the Effexor. Once you get the 25mg tablets and cut them into quarters, you'll be able to more easily move downward. It might be the right move to next go to 5 quarters (31.25mg) divided into 3-4 doses during the day (breakfast, lunch, dinner, and 2 at bedtime).
In what ways do you feel Benadryl helps you?
I really don't like the idea that you are experiencing withdrawal at all.
If you are in doubt, you might consider taking the whole 37.5mg in the morning and see if the withdrawal symptoms disappear. If they do, then you have your answer. Of course, you will need to take some amount in the evening to prevent a more intense withdrawal from appearing the next day. It will then be up to you as to whether or not to continue at 37.5mg. If you had the 25mg tablets to work with, you could temporarily move up to 43.75mg and be comfortable. I realize how unlikely you are to do this, but it is what I would do if I had to function and found it difficult to do so. Then again, you might see withdrawal symptoms disappear within a couple of days if you continue 37.5mg. I really don't know.
Let's see how much more we can confuse WindDancer!
Do what your instincts tell you to do. Remember, you have the luxury of time if you do not have discontinue Effexor by a certain date. Use time to your advantage.
I am very much interested to see you get through this unscathed. I am a bit of an optimist. You shouldn't have to suffer. Please remain optimistic that your experience with Effexor discontinuation will be relatively painless. I wish I could guarantee this for you, but we both know that I can't. Try to be patient.
Have a nice day. See you soon.
:-)
- Scott
Posted by Detroit on March 26, 2005, at 9:50:08
In reply to Re: About the Effexor XR Withdrawal » winddancer, posted by SLS on March 26, 2005, at 8:32:19
This discussion thread has been a godsend to me so far.
I have been tapering down E-XR from 150mg over the past year, and stopped cold-turkey from 37.5mg this week (Tuesday pm was last dose).
Yesterday (Friday - aka day 3) was hell on earth! My wife and I did some searching and found your site and this thread.
At dinnertime last night I broke open a 37.5 capsule and took roughly 1/3 of the granules. The ear ringing stopped in about 2 hours and I slept last night! No weird sensations (not pain, not tingling - someone posted about an almost electrical sensation which seems to describe it somewhat) in my feet and legs to keep me awake. Woke up today to no dizziness when I move my eyes, nor any brain flashes(?), although I feel them starting slowly...
Going to try the suggestion to take a small amount from a capsule as symptoms appear - not on a set schedule - and see how it goes. I will talk to my doc on Monday about the tablets.
Thanks to all who have shared here (both good and bad experiences) it has been helpful to me so far. I'll keep you posted on how my process goes.
-Detroit
Posted by SLS on March 26, 2005, at 10:04:20
In reply to Re: About the Effexor XR Withdrawal, posted by Detroit on March 26, 2005, at 9:50:08
Hi there!
> Going to try the suggestion to take a small amount from a capsule as symptoms appear - not on a set schedule - and see how it goes. I will talk to my doc on Monday about the tablets.
:-) <smile>
I sincerely hope the flexible-dose strategy pays off for you. You did the right thing by restarting the drug.
I look forward to watching your progress!
Sincerely,
Scott
Posted by gardenia girl on March 26, 2005, at 10:21:28
In reply to Re: About the Effexor XR Withdrawal, posted by Detroit on March 26, 2005, at 9:50:08
At first I thought I was having a stroke, then as it progressed and I realized it must be related to withdrawal of Effexor I started searching inet. I found a site http://depression.about.com/cs/venlafaxine/a/brainshivers.htm that has about the best descriptions I have found so far as to what is going on inside my head. Trying to describe it to those who love you and want to help is not easy. If I were on the outside looking in it would be difficult to take anyone seriously that was making these claims. Fortunately I have a very supportive and intelligent spouse. But one of the best affirmations of my sanity has been these web sites and those of us brave enough to verbalize our personal hell. My gratitude to all of you. Wouldn't it be wonderful to see postings from everyone WHEN we get through this. I am about to leave the house and TRY to take a ride up into the mountains, mostly for distraction. Later.
Posted by winddancer on March 26, 2005, at 17:54:48
In reply to Re: About the Effexor XR Withdrawal, posted by gardenia girl on March 26, 2005, at 10:21:28
Thanks for posting this link. I thought that it was well presented and then it had suggestions advertised for alternative solutions for dealing with depression and anxiety. I have emailed the site to my dr. I just hope she will look into it. It surprises me often that the dr. that specializes in prescribing drugs for depression and anxiety can be so uninformed about any other alternate methods of dealing with the symptoms. Its as if they have been brainwashed by the drug companies to not be interested in the patient getting well if it cannot be connected to prescribing meds. It would be nice to feel that the drs who are bright and have many years of training, would be primarily interested in healing the patient in any way possible, regardless of whether it meant purchasing a drug. Oh well, dream on.
winddancer
Posted by gardenia girl on March 26, 2005, at 22:32:52
In reply to Re: About the Effexor XR Withdrawal » gardenia girl, posted by winddancer on March 26, 2005, at 17:54:48
FYI
I stumbled across the following this afternoon.
Supplemental to Scott's tapering method.http://www.rxlist.com/rxboard/effexor.pl?noframes;read=5422
Count the Granules
Posted By: Help_Harry
Date: Friday, 25 February 2005, at 4:16 p.m.
Hello all,
After the response to my last post from Janet about observations, I thought I would take this one step further and count granules of both a 75mg capsule and a 37.5mg capsule. Remember this is for the XR version of effexor. Janet's count was 160 from a 37.5mg capsule. For some reason I have found a different count for the 37.5mg capsules. But the weight proportions between the 75mg and the 37.5mg capsule sizes seem to be correct. Each type of capsule has small, medium and large size granules. I did my best to separate them. I used a cross section of two of each size capsule and found similar enough between them to come to the conclusions below.
Here are my discoveries:
75mg capsule
Large - 22
Med - 101
Small - 67
total - 190
37.5mg capsule
Large - 16
Medium - 48
Small - 32
Total - 96
The 37.5 has a nice ratio of 1:3 between the small, medium and large. If you removed one large, two small and three mediums each day that would be an equal reduction but in my opinion probably too fast of a weening schedule. The 75mg doesn't have as nice of a balance. You would have to eliminate one large, 4.5 mediums, and 3.5 smalls each time, probably also too fast of a weening. I am thinking about a month schedule for each capsule size. One month to go from 75mg to 37.5mg and then one more month for 37.5mg to 0mg. My brain is fried from all the counting so I will throw this out there for debate and suggestions. My thought is you can never have enough planning for something like this.
Best
Harry
Posted by gardenia girl on March 26, 2005, at 22:49:30
In reply to Re: About the Effexor XR Withdrawal » gardenia girl, posted by winddancer on March 26, 2005, at 17:54:48
Have been researching links all evening. I wish I had done as much investigating before I started taking E-XR. Spilled milk. But on the other hand, this kind of info was probably not yet "out there". Some of the links below are from medical journals, some from media, one from FDA, other message boards, law firm... Some of it is easy reading, some long and tedious, but all of it validates our struggles, our frustrations, our hope, and most importantly that our quest is attainable. Not easy by any stretch of the imagination. I guess we will truly see what we are made of.
http://www.rxlist.com/rxboard/effexor.pl?noframes;read=5447
http://www.pharmcast.com/WarningLetters/Yr2004/Mar2004/Wyeth0304.htm
http://www.join-the-fun.com/effexor-withdrawal.html
http://www.effexor-xr-side-effects-withdrawal.com/case-report-of-withdrawal-symptoms.html
http://www.washingtonian.com/health/hardtoswallow6.html#6
http://www.socialaudit.org.uk/4200DTAY.htm
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed&cmd=Retrieve&list_uids=9588310&dopt=Abstract
Posted by SLS on March 27, 2005, at 6:53:10
In reply to Re: About the Effexor XR Withdrawal, posted by gardenia girl on March 26, 2005, at 22:49:30
Nierenberg and his group at Harvard are an outstanding group of people whom are not afraid to attack a problem.
- Scott
Posted by MommyFruitcake on March 27, 2005, at 17:49:58
In reply to Re: About the Effexor XR Withdrawal, posted by miracles on March 27, 2005, at 14:06:25
I have been taking effexor for a couple of years, and it has been the most successful drug to combat depression for me. I was suffering from post-partum depression, and my daughter is about to turn five. I went on a 4 day camping trip this weekend, and forgot my meds. I am experiencing withdrawls, very similar to the effects I felt when I first started taking this drug. I have been contemplating going off of the drug and seeing how it goes. I was thinking that since I haven't had a dose since wed night, this may be a good time to try it. My question is, does anyone know how long the withdrawl effect should last? If it's only a week, then I'm half way there, but it'd it is more like a month, i'm not sure if it's worth it. Anyone have advice?
Thanks
Kathryn
Posted by Detroit on March 27, 2005, at 23:56:56
In reply to Re: About the Effexor XR Withdrawal, posted by Detroit on March 26, 2005, at 9:50:08
Update on my progress.
Flexible dosing is going well.Overall, I feel better than I have in more than two years!!! So much of what I've felt in the past few years I now believe to be "minor" withdrawals from the Effexor XR brought on by the 24 hrs between doses.
Like others here, I have very mixed feelings about this medicine now. It definitely helped me more than some other meds I tried (Imipramine, Prozac, Wellbutrin), but is clearly not without its own problems - the biggest being withdrawal related to its incredibly short half life - even in the XR version.
I sure wish my doctors and I were all 1)better informed, and 2)had more discussion prior to taking this med. I may still have done it, but wouldn't have been so surprised by what has happened to me during the withdrawal.
Again, thanks to everyone who has shared their experiences here!!! You have helped at least one person - ME!
Specific History:
150mg dosage for several (5?) years.
Down to 112.5mg 12 months ago.
Down to 75mg 5 months ago.
Down to 37.5mg 6 weeks ago.
Took last 37.5mg dose Tuesday night.Very little sleep Wed or Thursday night.
Increasing brain zaps, dizziness, and electrified feeling in feet and legs.
Friday was the complete hell-on-earth that others have described also.
My wife (a former pharmacist) was sure what was happening to me was related to Effexor withdrawal.
She started searching the web for helpful info Friday afternoon.
We read about alternative tapering down plans on this site and others. Decided to try.Friday 7pm took ~1/3 granules from 37.5mg capsule (I did not do the big/medium/little granule counting or measuring that others have described - just grabbed some).
Sat noon (15 hrs later) took ~1/3 granules.
Sat midnight (12 hrs later) took ~1/3 granules.
Sun 1am (~25 hrs later, in just a few minutes) I will take about 1/4 of the granules.
No significant withdrawal effects since about 8pm on Friday (although I am have some insomnia).I only take some when I feel the symptoms coming on, and it is working so far.
I will talk to my Doc Monday about the tablets to enable more precise dosing without attempting to count those little granules...
Posted by SLS on March 28, 2005, at 6:53:39
In reply to Re: About the Effexor XR Withdrawal, posted by Detroit on March 27, 2005, at 23:56:56
Hi Detroit.
I think you are the second person here to use a flexible dosing strategy to discontinue Effexor. The most difficult period for most people seems to be making it past 37.5 - 75.0mg. Flexible dosing becomes more and more necessary the closer one comes to 0.0mg.
I used a flexible strategy beginning at the higher dosages. I was able to discontinue 300mg of Effexor twice in 10 days without suffering a single withdrawal episode. Upon complete discontinuation, the withdrawal symptoms were mild and lasted for about a day or two. I'll be very curious to see what your experience is.
I think it makes sense to wait for the withdrawal syndrome to appear before taking the next dose, albeit not allowing it to last for more than a 1/2 hour. It guarantees that you are decreasing the dosage as quickly as the body and mind can handle comfortably. You are thereby optimizing your rate of taper. My schedule was to take as much Effexor as would allow me to remain symptom free for 6-8 hours. The first time, I used the tablets and simply bit off very small amounts towards the end of the taper. Precision is not really necessary. The second time, I used the granules contained in the 150mg capsules. Perhaps you will find a schedule or dosing method that works better for you.
Although I haven't set out to determine a biological mechanism yet, intuitively, I think it might be desirable to allow the system to reach the threshold of withdrawal syndrome purposely. It might help to provoke the system into making the adjustments necessary to allow for the complete discontinuation of the drug by providing it with a periodic gentle nudge. Pharmacologically speaking, this might act as a stimulant for the neurons and neural pathways to re-regulate themselves toward their original genetically defined state. This is a just an idea of mine that may or may not reflect what is really going on, but I think altering gene expression is essential. It is ironic that it might be the allowance of an unmitigated withdrawal state to continue that sets up for a protracted withdrawal syndrome long after the drug is discontinued. I believe this phenomenon represents the consequences of kindling.
> Overall, I feel better than I have in more than two years!!! So much of what I've felt in the past few years I now believe to be "minor" withdrawals from the Effexor XR brought on by the 24 hrs between doses.
That is an excellent observation and deduction. I never gave it much thought regarding Effexor. You might be absolutely right. What an important insight this! I used to experience the same thing using Halcion or Ativan for sleep, so I am quite sure it is possible.
I make a habit of dividing my doses of most medications, despite the once-a-day prescribing habits of most doctors. I always divided my Effexor dosage by taking it twice a day. Even with drugs that have a 24 hour half-life, I like to do this. I feel it is desirable in most cases to provide as steady a blood level as is possible. Consequently, I can't speak from experience the results of a once-a-day dosing schedule for Effexor. However, it does seem reasonable that it would set up for a chronic withdrawal state.
> Like others here, I have very mixed feelings about this medicine now. It definitely helped me more than some other meds I tried (Imipramine, Prozac, Wellbutrin), but is clearly not without its own problems
Of course, this is true of so many drugs.
The other potent serotonergic drugs are capable of producing discontinuation syndromes despite their longer half-lives. Effexor is the most notorious, but is not without company.
> the biggest being withdrawal related to its incredibly short half life - even in the XR version.
This is why I am so interested in investigating methods of discontinuation that work and no longer makes the fear of withdrawal be the reason people are disuaded from using particularly effective treatment.
Best wishes for your health and happiness.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on March 28, 2005, at 7:21:03
In reply to Re: About the Effexor XR Withdrawal » miracles, posted by MommyFruitcake on March 27, 2005, at 17:49:58
Hi.
> I have been taking effexor for a couple of years, and it has been the most successful drug to combat depression for me. I was suffering from post-partum depression, and my daughter is about to turn five. I went on a 4 day camping trip this weekend, and forgot my meds. I am experiencing withdrawls, very similar to the effects I felt when I first started taking this drug. I have been contemplating going off of the drug and seeing how it goes. I was thinking that since I haven't had a dose since wed night, this may be a good time to try it. My question is, does anyone know how long the withdrawl effect should last? If it's only a week, then I'm half way there, but it'd it is more like a month, i'm not sure if it's worth it. Anyone have advice?
Since "Miracles" is temporarily indisposed, I would like to make a few comments.
I believe that it is essential that you not discontinue Effexor abruptly ("cold turkey") unless you want to suffer unnecesarily. Withdrawal symptoms almost invariably begin 3 days after discontinuation or an abrupt reduction of dosage. It is also advisable that you not taper so fast that you must suffer withdrawal symptoms chronically along the way. In other words, I think you will be better off to restart the drug and decide whether you would like to discontinue it or not. If you would like to discontinue it, you should do so in such a way as minimizes your discomfort and prevents the persistence of withdrawal syndrome once you do discontinue it. You will find some "tricks" here on the Withdrawal page. You might want to give them a try. I have had great success using a flexible-dosing strategy that I have described in my posts here. In the meantime, it might be most prudent to restart Effexor and talk to your doctor about the desirability of discontinuing it.
There are some people who manage quite well discontinuing Effexor abruptly. You might be one of these people. I am not yet aware of a way to predict what will be one's experience with its abrupt discontinuation. I guess you can give it another a week just to see. I don't want to straddle the issue, but, rather, make you aware that everyone is different in the way they react to the addition and subtraction of medication.
I am not a doctor, by the way. Neither are most of the other people here. Please take this into account when considering any advice or suggestions being given by me or anyone else.
Good luck.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on March 28, 2005, at 7:23:06
In reply to Re: About the Effexor XR Withdrawal » miracles, posted by MommyFruitcake on March 27, 2005, at 17:49:58
Posted by MommyFruitcake on March 28, 2005, at 10:09:21
In reply to Re: About the Effexor XR Withdrawal, posted by SLS on March 28, 2005, at 7:21:03
Thank you for your help. I have only been taking 75mg for the past two years, so there isn't much to taper off of. I was really hoping that since I've been off of the drug since last Wed, I would have been past the withdrawls by now. I woke up this morning, unfortunately still dizzy and light-headed. I am hoping this will subside soon. I think I am going to give it a couple more days. My biggest hang up is that I am scheduled to take my black belt test on April 16th, and I need to be over this to do that.
Thanks for the knowledge. I do appreciate it
Kathryn
Posted by Hawklady on March 30, 2005, at 19:30:32
In reply to About the Effexor XR Withdrawal, posted by MoparFan91 on March 10, 2005, at 4:00:00
Hi,
I have just joined this forum. I am in the UK and started effexor XL 150 mg in Aug 2002, in Aug 2004 I tried to come off it too quickly, the side effects were horrible ,worst I have ever experienced even when I "stupidly" experimented with recreational illeagal drugs in the 90's.
I am down to 1/4 of a 37.5 mg tablet a day, I take 1/2 am and 1/2 pm. I am still getting some pretty minging side effects and have been reading here that I could use different tablets the, the capsules and count the beads amd also that there are other medication I could take to alieveate the symptoms which are:- aching all over, head ache, head twitch/jolts/pains, racing heart beat, palpatations (doc given me beta blockers for these) sleeplessness, twitchy/restelss legs in bed, numbness everywhere particular hands, feet, head, nether regions UNFORTUNATLY!! low libido never had a problem prior, quite the opposite, weight gain. I am on such a low dose its a shame to have to back track, any advice would be appreicated.
Good luck everyone - yours un-comfortably numb.
PS Sorry for my rubbush spelling, its 2.29 am here in the UK and visiting these forums helps with the insommnia
Posted by gardenia girl on March 30, 2005, at 20:08:01
In reply to Re: About the Effexor XR Withdrawal » gardenia girl, posted by SLS on March 25, 2005, at 17:06:20
Update on Gardenia Girl
Saturday - tried splitting capsules, sorting beads by size, separating into 4 equal portions. Took 1/4 around 10:00 am with 1 Benadryl. Symptoms were tolerable but not what I wanted. By 5:30 was very sick, took 1/4 more and within an hour was tolerable again. Slept, but not restfully.
Sunday - 1/4 in the morning with 1 Benadryl. Nothing needed for remainder of the day. Slept OK.
Monday - Hands and feet looked like they belonged to a freakin' elephant. Swelling was so bad I could not make a fist without pain. Took 1/3 in the morning w/1 Benadryl. Went to the doctor. Took all the info gathered from interenet. Doc said OK to try cutting 25 mg tablets, but wanted me to use Valium 2mg for queesy, dizzy symptoms. Doc thinks I have Thyroid problems (big lumps in my neck). Did blood tests. Will know by Friday. Gave me diuretic for fluid. Took 1/4 of 25 mg Effexor tablet and 1 Valium and 1 diuretic around 5:00 pm. Slept very good.
Tuesday - 1/4 tablet, 1 Valium, 1 diuretic about 7:30 am. By the time I got to work I was sick and throwing up. All the symptoms (and a few I had not yet experienced - feet / hands tingling) returned with a vengence. Threw up all day long. Have no idea how I got home without ending up in a ditch. Curled up in the hammock outside and slept until about midnight. Restless sleep remainder of night.
Wednesday - Time to rethink. Start over and change one thing at a time! Went back to 1/4 of capsule beads and Benadryl at 7:30 am. No Valium. No diuretic (lost 6 pounds in fluid from Monday mid-day until Wed morning). Today was OK. A little dizzy. Able to eat today without hurling. No Star Wars Light Sabers going off in my head. That's a good thing. No other meds today. It's about 9:00 pm here and I am going to try to go to sleep.
Good luck to everyone on this journey.
Posted by SLS on March 31, 2005, at 6:54:03
In reply to Re: About the Effexor XR Withdrawal, posted by gardenia girl on March 30, 2005, at 20:08:01
Hi GG.
You are being stubborn. :-)
You are not afraid of tolerating pain. This is a display of your strong character.
I can understand a fear of getting "stuck" at some dosage such that you will never get off of this drug. However, you might be a bit too inflexible the way you are using Effexor right now. Inevitably, you will have to undergo some withdrawal effects when you finally discontinue it, but, hopefully, it won't last too long or be so intense.
You know what I'm about to say, so perhaps I don't need to. Oh well, I guess I can't help myself.
Take as little as you NEED to prevent the withdrawal syndrome from acting against you. Although it is important to allow the withdrawal symptoms to appear briefly, try not to allow them to persist for more than an hour before taking your next miniscule dose. Hopefully, it will be enough to last 6-8 hours. You are trying so hard to discontinue a drug quickly that cannot be because your individual neurochemistry won't allow it. Perhaps you can begin thinking of using Effexor as a PRN like aspirin. You take it only after you are convinced that the headache is not going to go away by itself.
Listen, your withdrawal state might pass right now without taking a single dose more of Effexor. I have no way of knowing. However, I never allowed myself to suffer as much as you are now, except when I tried to use a rigid tapering schedule.
Damn. I wish I could take your pain away from you. I guess that's what I'm trying to do, even if what I am suggesting is absolutely wrong for you.
I pray things pass quickly for you. I have a feeling you are going to continue along your current path. Not unexpected for you... :-) You are a fighter.
Be well.
- Scott
- Scott
> Update on Gardenia Girl
Posted by SLS on March 31, 2005, at 6:56:11
In reply to Re: About the Effexor XR Withdrawal, posted by gardenia girl on March 30, 2005, at 20:08:01
Hi again.
Can you describe in detail in what ways you benefit from using Benadryl?
What symptoms does it ameliorate? To what degree?
Thanks for your input.
- Scott
Posted by gardenia girl on March 31, 2005, at 21:32:06
In reply to Re: About the Effexor XR Withdrawal » gardenia girl, posted by SLS on March 31, 2005, at 6:54:03
Howdy Y'all,
Two good days in a row!<You are being stubborn. :-)
Ya Think? What gave it away? :)
<You are not afraid of tolerating pain…
I've had migraines since I was six. I learned to deal with pain long ago. I don't like it, but you either learn to manage it or have a very miserable life. I opted out of misery.
<Damn. I wish I could take your pain away …
I appreciate the thought. And I know that it will eventually go away. I have to hold onto that faith on the bad days. But ------------ I have had two reasonably good days in a row!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<I pray things pass quickly for you.
Many thanks. I expect I will have highs and lows for a while.
<I have a feeling you are going to continue along your current path. Not unexpected for you... :-) You are a fighter.
I did follow the same path as yesterday. 1/4 of capsule beads, 1 Benadryl, lots of water. NO OTHER MEDS. Very little queasies, no brain zapping, only a little dizziness. Water retention is returning, but a friend at work suggested something at health store. Pure Vinegar? Said it is a natural diuretic. Any knowledge of that?
>You are a fighter.
Actually, my mother always said I was " a little high-strung and strong willed". Whatever that means :) . Feels good to feel good! I know that two days in a row is not a big deal in the whole scheme of things, but right now I'LL TAKE IT.
Wishing everyone two good days! - Gardenia Girl
Posted by gardenia girl on March 31, 2005, at 21:43:54
In reply to Re: About the Effexor XR Withdrawal » gardenia girl, posted by SLS on March 31, 2005, at 6:56:11
<Can you describe in detail in what ways you benefit from using Benadryl?What symptoms does it ameliorate? To what degree?Thanks for your input.- Scott
I can't really say just yet. I started the Benadryl the same time as I started back with the 1/4 capsule of Effexor. So, I don't really know for certain if 1/4 cap of Effexor is relieving symptoms all day or if Benadryl is. Or if it is the combination of both.
The days I took Valium instead of Benadryl, I also took diuretics and 1/4 of a 25mg Effexor tablet instead of time released capsule grains. Those two days I thought I was going to die, but I don't know which of the three messed me up.
When I get a little braver I will take the Effexor grains w/o Benadryl and see what happens. Then I guess, in its absence, we will know what it was doing. I'll let you know
Posted by tinytasha on April 6, 2005, at 2:42:18
In reply to Re: About the Effexor XR Withdrawal, posted by gardenia girl on March 31, 2005, at 21:43:54
I have been on effexor for just a bit over 3 years now. Quite frankly, it saved my life at the time I began it, and also resulted in a reasonable explanation for a depression I had been under since I was a child.
Apparently, I have a brain chemical deficiency, including seratonin and melatonin. I don't precisely know what this means, however I do know that for the first time, I felt like I had always thought a "normal" person should feel within about a week of taking effexor.
Another (I believe) positive side effect of the Effexor was the seemingly effortless ability to quit smoking after nearly 25 years...I quit within 2 months of beginning the effexor and have now been entirely smoke free since March 25, 2002. After quitting smoking, however, I gained over 120 lbs in less than 4 months, and at first I attributed this to the quitting smoking even though my eating habits had not changed. I am only now beginning to lose this weight now, thanks to herbs I have been taking to target such things as adrenals, thyroid, liver, etc.
While I highly vouch for the effects of the Effexor in myself, about a year ago, I began to notice some things that could be termed "side effects". The "brain buzz" would begin literally within 30 minutes of forgetting to take a dose (I was on 75 mg for most of the 3 years). Hot flashes got so bad, I thought I might be going thru menopause, even though I'm rather young for it. I started to feel depressed because of my weight and my inability to lose it, particularly when because of it, I began to experience problems in all my leg joints, and developed what my doctor believed was severe plantar faciitis. This caused morning foot pain which resulted in my inablitity to support my own weight in the mornings. At first I would have to crawl to the bathroom for my morning toilet...which for some reason, always helped alleviate the pain...the use of the toilet, that is, not the crawling....after a couple months, I had done so much damage to my knees, I had to use my arms, wrists and shoulders to lever myself up and support myself with my dresser, then literally hang from the door jamb by my arms to get to the bathroom. This has now resulted in damage to my wrists, elbows and shoulders.
The only advice I was able to procure was "lose weight", yet I was eating everything healthy, and exercising as much as I could. No doctor believed me, even the doctors I had seen since I was a small child.
A few weeks ago, the depression got so bad, I thought about suicide for the first time in my life. And this occurred while taking the effexor.
Because of the reason for my needing effexor, I assumed this is why every other antidepressant I had ever been prescribed had never worked in the least. I felt that this was my only alternative, and while I still fought the over weight aspect, I was still quite happy with the drug. I suppose I should also mention that I was assured by several doctors that Effexor was completely and for sure, non addictive.
The problem arises in the simple cost of the prescription. To even maintain the current levels costs me about 1/4 of what I earn. Since I am the single mother of a teenager, I simply cannot afford this, so, about 2 weeks ago, realizing that I could no longer maintain my prescription, I had my last prescription issued in 37.5 mg dosages. I have been taking these, and suffering through the brain zaps and other symptoms, and ran out of meds about 4 days ago. I had not gone through my doctor since I had to relocate to another city due to work, and, wouldn't you know it, have not been able to find a doctor yet who is taking new patients. It has been very difficult finding any doctor, even in emergency situations and walk in centres willing to prescribe such a medication anyway.
Most of the side effects I am currently suffering I also suffered while taking the medication....diarrhea, alternating with constipation, dizziness, brain buzzing, tingling in my toes, numbness in my legs and arms, etc. The worst, by far, is the brain buzz and dizziness. I have no money whatsoever until next week, so taking any effexor is not possible at this time, and since the worst of my symptoms so far are more irritating than painful, I am willing to live through them for now.
I am, however, wondering if there is a natural alternative I can take which will help alleviate some of these symptoms. Due to the problems caused by the initial weight gain, I have several types of herbs in my cupboard, but I only take those specific to a need. St John's Wort has not particularly ever done anything for me, and again I think it is because my depression is not caused by mental/emotional reason, but chemical.
I truly wish I could have tapered more slowly than this, however it just isn't possible...not if my daughter and I are to have such luxuries as food also.
I would appreciate any feedback
TT
Posted by winddancer on April 8, 2005, at 0:20:28
In reply to Re: About the Effexor XR Withdrawal, posted by tinytasha on April 6, 2005, at 2:42:18
Sounds like you really got hit with problems, over and over again. Sometimes it seems like once I get one problem, the next one adds on and then the next and then its hard to get a window of feeling good to start making significant changes and improvement. Some suggestions to try for some of your issues:
For the foot pain - get a golf ball, (or tennis ball) and before you put your full weight on your foot in the morning or after sitting a while, roll the ball around under your arch with gentle to firm pressure (Ball on the floor - sitting on the side of your bed) Get a shoe or insert with a good arch support and metatarsal support - and NEVER, EVER walk around barefoot even for a minute or two to get to the bathroom in the night or something. Keep the shoes with arch beside your bed. Even in the shower, try to have a washcloth or something folded under your arch. Do this for several months until your foot heals. (Everytime you step barefoot, the fascia legament that runs the length of the bottom of your foot, gets stretched and re-inflames the points of attachment. [I suffered with this for several years, and this was what finally worked - it took 2 weeks to see 1st results] - I got a pair of Miphisto shoes - Big $$ - but there are others and I also worked with a shoe repairman who would use inserts to build up the arch and metatarsal of my existing shoes and some slippers. Once you can walk you can work on getting the weight off, and be able to exercise which helps with the depression and anxiety. Good luck!!Another thing you mentioned that I think is really important is a very very good diet with supplements and no sugar. Meaning - heavy on very fresh fruits and veggies and less volume of meats and bread and do organic as much as you can afford - avoid white flour. I believe this is a key thing that is rarely seriously addressed - its just assumed that you are eating great. I'm learning about grocery outlets where you can get less expensive produce. [I learned the hard way and was not eating well and am now very anemic - if you're feeling slowed down - get your iron checked - you just never know?]
I still suffer with tingly hands and feet and even mouth. I have problems with restless legs especially in the evening or if I have to sit still for very long. I still have excrutiating body ache and I'm not sure what's causing this. I've now weaned down to 25 mg of Effexor a day and take it in two halves as I need it.
Good luck and Keep us posted.
Winddancer
Posted by SLS on April 8, 2005, at 2:01:56
In reply to Re: About the Effexor XR Withdrawal » tinytasha, posted by winddancer on April 8, 2005, at 0:20:28
Hi WindDancer.
> I still suffer with tingly hands and feet and even mouth. I have problems with restless legs especially in the evening or if I have to sit still for very long. I still have excrutiating body ache and I'm not sure what's causing this. I've now weaned down to 25 mg of Effexor a day and take it in two halves as I need it.
> Good luck and Keep us posted.
> Winddancer
Do you think what you are experiencing is withdrawal symptoms? If so, maybe it's time to switch over to Prozac and wean off that. I had hoped you would have an easier time with things.:-(
- Scott
Posted by winddancer on April 8, 2005, at 2:52:04
In reply to Re: About the Effexor XR Withdrawal » winddancer, posted by SLS on April 8, 2005, at 2:01:56
Hi Scott,
I don't know what these symptoms are from -although the tingling and restless legs seem to be worse when I'm further away from my last dose of 12.5mg - taking the other half seems to help a little bit but the tingling and restless legs seems to never go away entirely. I don't know if I posted that I recently learned that I am very anemic (low iron in blood) and my dr. thinks that if my muscles aren't getting enough oxygen (carried by the hemoglobin), it could cause them to ache and hurt. I also have been getting some diagnosis of my SI joint pain and an MRI and chiro manipulation confers that I have some scoliosis and spinal discs that are very squished between the vertebre and immobile [but not yet fused]and it could cause some nerve impingment, and thus numbness - a spine specialist will be evaluating the MRI next week. Also I'm getting an evaluation from a dr who does prolotherapy. Have you or anyone ever heard of that?? If not, I'll explain or post a website.
In many ways I feel I've been somewhat successful in weaning down to no more than 25mg/day of the Effexor. If I keep my mind busy and engaged in a mental or physical activity, I can go further between doses but as evening approaches the symtoms seem to crop up - not allowing me to eliminate the 2nd half of the 25mg tablet. I no longer get the headaches or the sweats or constipation and the Chinese herbs are addressing those issues.
Winddancer
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