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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Kath on January 14, 2007, at 16:32:09
In reply to Re: Deep breath » AuntieMel, posted by Deneb on January 12, 2007, at 14:11:33
Hey Deneb -
One more thing.....please call the Emergency Dept of your local hospital or a Mental Health Agency or something & get the telephone # of a Crisis Line.
I would think there'd be one. You should be able to get it by phoning a hospital or doctor's office, or even the Non-Emergency Police telephone number.
I think you need to have that telephone # on hand always. The minute you start to feel overwhelmed, try giving them a call. Over this last couple of weeks with my son suicidal; psychotic; ETC I've called my local 310-COPE so many times it's not even funny!!! It really helps. I hope you have a local Crisis Line.
luv, Kath
Posted by Deneb on January 14, 2007, at 17:32:40
In reply to Re: Deep breath » Deneb, posted by Kath on January 14, 2007, at 16:32:09
Thank-you finelinebob
Thank-you Meri-Tuuli
I think you're right. My Mom was trying to motivate me by calling me lazy. I will prove her wrong.Thank-you ClearSkies
Thank-you laima
You're right. Skipping class for a day is not a disaster.Thank-you one woman cine
You really helped me.Thank-you Phillipa
Thank you MidnightBlue
Thank-you Leo for your poem. It made me feel a little better.
Thank-you Jo UK. Your letter idea is a good one.
Thank-you AuntieMel
Thank-you Farkus
Thank-you Llurpsie_Noodle
Thank-you Kath
Before I wrote this it didn't dawn on me how many people care about me. I thank everyone who has thought of me. ((((((((((((((((Everyone)))))))))))))))) I'm so lucky to have so many BabbleFriends. I love you all. I love you more than Dr. Bob. :-)
Deneb*
Posted by Deneb on January 14, 2007, at 17:40:54
In reply to Re: Thank-you everyone, posted by Deneb on January 14, 2007, at 17:32:40
I want to reply to many of you more in depth. Just give me some time.
I love you all.
Deneb*
Posted by ClearSkies on January 14, 2007, at 23:55:09
In reply to Re: Thank-you everyone, posted by Deneb on January 14, 2007, at 17:32:40
((((((((((((((((Everyone)))))))))))))))) I'm so lucky to have so many BabbleFriends. I love you all. I love you more than Dr. Bob. :-)
>
> Deneb*
>Woo-hoo! I'm going to print that last line out, Deneb! :-)
I'm glad that you can see the positive effect that babble can have on us. It really can support us during difficult times.CS
Posted by leo33 on January 15, 2007, at 19:16:10
In reply to Re: Thank-you everyone » Deneb, posted by ClearSkies on January 14, 2007, at 23:55:09
Your Welcome, I am glad that we could help. You still have gratitude in you and that is a good thing. Keep your hope alive!!!!
Posted by Llurpsie_Noodle on January 15, 2007, at 20:23:52
In reply to Re: Thank-you everyone, posted by leo33 on January 15, 2007, at 19:16:10
Deneb,
That's amazing!!! A dozen or so babblers who care can surpass your bob-love!!!WOW!
I feel like I've got my own "essence" somehow!
Thanks for saying that we make a difference. It's hard to know sometimes whether my existence actually makes a difference. thanks again :)
((((warm and fuzzy feelings for Deneb*)))))
-Ll
Posted by one woman cine on January 16, 2007, at 11:16:13
In reply to Re: Thank-you everyone, posted by Llurpsie_Noodle on January 15, 2007, at 20:23:52
I must respectfully disagree with Joy Luck Club...
By extension of Auntie Mel's and Kath's "Joy Luck Club" -
For understanding groups we don't understand, read book "XYZ"
watch (or read) One Flew over the Cuckoo's nest to understand the mentally ill.watch the Lone Ranger to understand American Indians...
read (or watch) Huckleberry Finn or the Color purple to understand african americans...
To understand the South, read Flannery O'connor or Tennesee William's "streetcar named desire"
Watch the Sopranos to understand Italian americans.
& on it goes.....
http://www.colorado.edu/ftep/diversity/div06.html
Posted by karen_kay on January 16, 2007, at 12:08:44
In reply to Joy Luck Club + stereotypes... - Auntie Mel, posted by one woman cine on January 16, 2007, at 11:16:13
i'm fairly certain auntie mel wasn't saying that to reinforce stereotypes. i'm sure she was giving an example, which by deneb's description, would help deneb to understand her mother's point of view.
Posted by one woman cine on January 16, 2007, at 12:18:58
In reply to give me a break., posted by karen_kay on January 16, 2007, at 12:08:44
Have you ever been the victim of stereotype?
Somehow, when you say "give me a break" - it doesn't seem like you have...
I'm not splitting hairs - I'm serious.
Posted by one woman cine on January 16, 2007, at 12:20:02
In reply to give me a break., posted by karen_kay on January 16, 2007, at 12:08:44
> i'm fairly certain auntie mel wasn't saying that to reinforce stereotypes. i'm sure she was giving an example, which by deneb's description, would help deneb to understand her mother's point of view.
>
>& you are also fairly confident you can speak for someone else?
Posted by one woman cine on January 16, 2007, at 12:32:37
In reply to give me a break., posted by karen_kay on January 16, 2007, at 12:08:44
I don't think the "Joy luck club" reference was made out of malice...but stereotypes do hurt.
""A "stereotype" is a generalization about a person or group of persons. We develop stereotypes when we are unable or unwilling to obtain all of the information we would need to make fair judgments about people or situations. In the absence of the "total picture," stereotypes in many cases allow us to "fill in the blanks." Our society often innocently creates and perpetuates stereotypes, but these stereotypes often lead to unfair discrimination and persecution when the stereotype is unfavorable. "
Posted by gardenergirl on January 16, 2007, at 13:16:51
In reply to let me add -, posted by one woman cine on January 16, 2007, at 12:32:37
Mel, just kick me if you wish, because I know you can speak for yourself.
However, I'm going to speak, too. Hope that's okay with you, onewomancine.
I agree with you that stereotypes hurt. I don't believe, though, that Auntie Mel suggested this book to Deneb in order to learn all about Chinese women. Rather, I believe she suggested it as a tool for Deneb to read and reflect in hopes of improving her relationship with her mother.
It would be dangerous for anyone to assume that anyone belonging to a certain group is exactly the same as a portrayal of the group, whatever the medium. Similarly, there is more within group variation versus between groups variation. But you know that, I'm sure.
Still, it can be helpful to have a place to start and some "grist for the mill" to stimulate reflection when trying to understand something. Deneb is likely to take in information (whether from this book or anything else), digest it, compare and contrast it to other examples and to what she already knows, and then either assimilate/integrate it or let it go. She's a pretty smart cookie in a lot of ways. I doubt she took Mel's recommendation as, "This is a map of your mother."
Of course I could be wrong, because I can only speak for me, ya know.
gg
Posted by one woman cine on January 16, 2007, at 13:24:47
In reply to Re: let me add - » one woman cine, posted by gardenergirl on January 16, 2007, at 13:16:51
for clarifying that. Golly! Maybe I'm being "senstive" but your post sets off my "sarcasm detector".
"Mel, just kick me if you wish, because I know you can speak for yourself.
However, I'm going to speak, too. Hope that's okay with you, onewomancine."
I'm sure that's not your intended effect, though, right?
((((gg)))
People other than Babblers read this bb and I'm not sure if they would necessarily have that same view.
People on babble are extremely sensitive to issues of mental health, in particular. I have seen people hurt by the stigma of mental illness.
Just as it's not OK to stereotype mental illness, it's not OK to stigmatize any other group of people either.(((auntie mel)))
Posted by karen_kay on January 16, 2007, at 13:37:35
In reply to Re: give me a break. - karen kay, posted by one woman cine on January 16, 2007, at 12:18:58
young (kinda, not so much anymore), white, female. what sort of stereotypes do you think i've encountered? how about at the auto parts store? or even better, any appliance store. going to get tools as presents, and i get treated like i have no idea what's going on.
is it fair? of course not. do i waste any time or energy trying to break this stereotype? not at all. it doesn't bother me becuase i know i'm not tool-stupid, or car-stupid, or appliance-stupid.
i personally find it frustrating when someone here is trying to help and they get tore a new one. how supportive is that?i'm not saying we all have to agree. not at all. but, can't we have the attitude that people here are just trying to help the way they know how? and how about giving people the benefit of the doubt, instead of laying into them?
geez, are we trying to reinforce the stereotype that the mentally ill are confrontational and argumentative? because that's the way it seems here lately (not excluding myself of course.)
go ahead, let me have it then. and i really hope your day is going well (no sarcasm there, swear it!)
Posted by Deneb on January 16, 2007, at 14:12:39
In reply to Re: Deep breath » AuntieMel, posted by Deneb on January 12, 2007, at 14:11:33
>My Mom thinks I should deny any and all problems I have no matter what. She told me that even if I were mentally retarded I should never ever admit that there is anything wrong with me. I don't think she would support me going to a mental health support site. She doesn't support me seeing a T or taking medication.
I don't get my Mom. She did tell me to deny all problems, but I just learned she isn't against me talking to my T or taking medications.
Deneb*
Posted by one woman cine on January 16, 2007, at 14:13:01
In reply to i'm not even in the mood » one woman cine, posted by karen_kay on January 16, 2007, at 13:37:35
> young (kinda, not so much anymore), white, female. what sort of stereotypes do you think i've encountered? how about at the auto parts store? or even better, any appliance store. going to get tools as presents, and i get treated like i have no idea what's going on.
>
> is it fair? of course not. do i waste any time or energy trying to break this stereotype? not at all. it doesn't bother me becuase i know i'm not tool-stupid, or car-stupid, or appliance-stupid.
>
>
> i personally find it frustrating when someone here is trying to help and they get tore a new one. how supportive is that?
>
> i'm not saying we all have to agree. not at all. but, can't we have the attitude that people here are just trying to help the way they know how? and how about giving people the benefit of the doubt, instead of laying into them?
>
> geez, are we trying to reinforce the stereotype that the mentally ill are confrontational and argumentative? because that's the way it seems here lately (not excluding myself of course.)
>
> go ahead, let me have it then. and i really hope your day is going well (no sarcasm there, swear it!)
>
>
>
Hmm, I think you are jumping to a conclusion about me - I wasn't ripping any one a "new one" or "laying into them" - I was bringing up a point about stereotypes. That's all.People interpret "support" differently. What one person sees as sarcastic, another sees as supportive.
I am only asking for sensitivity and civility in regard to generalizations, which is mentioned in the FAQ, which is what this site says it espouses.
Posted by Lou Pilder on January 16, 2007, at 14:51:53
In reply to Joy Luck Club + stereotypes... - Auntie Mel, posted by one woman cine on January 16, 2007, at 11:16:13
> I must respectfully disagree with Joy Luck Club...
>
>
>
> By extension of Auntie Mel's and Kath's "Joy Luck Club" -
>
>
> For understanding groups we don't understand, read book "XYZ"
>
>
> watch (or read) One Flew over the Cuckoo's nest to understand the mentally ill.
>
> watch the Lone Ranger to understand American Indians...
>
> read (or watch) Huckleberry Finn or the Color purple to understand african americans...
>
> To understand the South, read Flannery O'connor or Tennesee William's "streetcar named desire"
>
> Watch the Sopranos to understand Italian americans.
>
> & on it goes.....
>
> http://www.colorado.edu/ftep/diversity/div06.html
>
>
one woman cine,
You wrote,[..."Joy Luck Club"...for understanding groups we don't understand, read book "XYZ"...].
Thank you for bringing out that there is the potential for a group to be sterotyped by one person's depiction, even if it is innocently portrayed. I believe that there is the potential for that to happen IMO via a television series, or a movie or a book or perhaps a club or cult where the content is controlled by leaving open to malign a particular group, where sterotyping of other groups would not be allowed.
I believe that the principles of social justice make no distinction as to the author's intent of any work that has the potential to sterotype a group of peoples. Wherever I see people of any nature, the subject for the potential to be sterotyped as a group of people, I try with all my might for that to be repudiated so that there is no doubt that the sterotyping is not endorsed.
Lou
Posted by tofuemmy on January 16, 2007, at 15:50:34
In reply to well thanks gg, posted by one woman cine on January 16, 2007, at 13:24:47
"Golly! Maybe I'm being "senstive" but your post sets off my "sarcasm detector". "
OWC - I have known GG for many years, and yes she has the ability to be sarcastic...as do I. However, as someone who knows GG well, I don't hear sarcasm in this post. Tone is hard to read sometimes. I think she was just trying to help smooth things out. As am I.
em
Posted by laima on January 16, 2007, at 16:12:45
In reply to Re: let me add - » one woman cine, posted by gardenergirl on January 16, 2007, at 13:16:51
I think reading fiction can be quite enriching, and can shed insight or a new twist on understanding one's own life experience. It can give us ideas for new language to use as we think of our experiences. For example, "Oh, this and this happened in my life and I felt terrible, it was horrible and embarressing- here something like it happened in the book and the author made it sound sort of bittersweetly funny. Maybe I can make peace with my experience and look at it lighter, too. I sure do have an interesting story..." Or, "That character in the book reminds me of my mom when she's too strict and unfair- oh- so the character behaves that way because of this and that? Maybe I should give mom a break." Sorry if this sounds sappy and oversimplified. I think the book suggestion was a good one.
Posted by laima on January 16, 2007, at 16:14:30
In reply to Re: give me a break. - karen kay, posted by one woman cine on January 16, 2007, at 12:18:58
I've been victim of ethnic and occupational stereotyping, and I still don't see what the problem is with suggesting The Joy Luck Club.> Have you ever been the victim of stereotype?
>
> Somehow, when you say "give me a break" - it doesn't seem like you have...
>
> I'm not splitting hairs - I'm serious.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Posted by laima on January 16, 2007, at 16:17:45
In reply to Lou's response to aspects of OWC's post » one woman cine, posted by Lou Pilder on January 16, 2007, at 14:51:53
Um, isn't Amy Tan a Chinese-American woman writing about other Chinese American women? Isn't that ok for her to do?
Posted by Llurpsie_Noodle on January 16, 2007, at 16:21:00
In reply to Re: let me add - » one woman cine, posted by gardenergirl on January 16, 2007, at 13:16:51
Sometimes reading something that resonates helps us understand ourselves.
Sometimes it also helps to read something about people like us, even though it makes us feel like we are "different" then they are. Helps us understand ourselves.
If Deneb wishes to understand her mom's behavior at a different level, it might be interesting to her to thing about cultural influences and generational influences on her mom's behavior. Kind of like an anthropology project.
Reading a book about a group of people who are different from me often has the effect of helping me understand that people from [group X] are in fact individuals, rather than category-members. That has certainly been my experience as a reader of psycho-babble posts.
-Ll
Posted by Llurpsie_Noodle on January 16, 2007, at 18:05:52
In reply to Re: Deep breath, posted by Deneb on January 16, 2007, at 14:12:39
> >My Mom thinks I should deny any and all problems I have no matter what. She told me that even if I were mentally retarded I should never ever admit that there is anything wrong with me. I don't think she would support me going to a mental health support site. She doesn't support me seeing a T or taking medication.
>
> I don't get my Mom. She did tell me to deny all problems, but I just learned she isn't against me talking to my T or taking medications.
>
> Deneb*Deneb,
It's okay not to "get" your mom. I don't think any of us "get" our moms all the time. Or even for important stuff. I am understanding my mom more and more these days. Helps that my T is kind of in the same demographic as my mom. It makes it more credible for me to understand how some things my mom does are highly unusual if it comes from someone with knowledge of what is "typical" in certain populations.I'm not surprised that your mom wants you to deny your weaknesses. Parents have a lot of reasons for wanting that. 1. It might make them feel that people will think less of them as a parent. 2. belief that private things should remain inside the family. 3. Looking out for your best interests as you encounter people in the world who don't understand mental illness. 4. She doesn't want to be reminded that her daughter struggles with problems that she cannot fix. etc.
I'm SO happy to hear that she is not against you taking medication or seeing your pdoc/T. Of course, if she *were* against it, you'd know by now. She'd make it difficult for you to schedule and keep appts, or she might make if difficult for you to obtain your medications.
It sounds like you had a really important discussion with her. Have you guys ever talked about the effect of your mental illness on family life with a counsellor? I understand that there might be language barriers, etc. I also think that it might help you to understand how your parents feel about you, and the extent of their love for you. It might also make day-to-day living a little smoother if they can understand the types of things that you struggle with. (I'm also thinking of your younger sibling). As a younger sibling of someone who had severe depression and psychosis... well, I guess I would have appreciated it if someone could have sat down and explained to me what was going on. Instead I got the idea that if I ever told anyone what happened at home that my older brother would be sent away to an "insane asylum" for the rest of his ? and I would be responsible for violating the family's privacy. (yeah, I got issues) anyways, just wanted to throw that suggestion out there. family counselling. hip hip hooray...
-Ll
Posted by Lou Pilder on January 16, 2007, at 19:03:55
In reply to Re:, posted by laima on January 16, 2007, at 16:17:45
>
> Um, isn't Amy Tan a Chinese-American woman writing about other Chinese American women? Isn't that ok for her to do?Friends,
It is written here,[...a ..woman writing about other..Isn't that OK for her to do so?..]
I believe that whatever the intent or otherwise there might be that something is written about a group of people that has the potential to sterotype that group, if the sterotyping can be seen, then I belive that is not in accordance with the principles of social justice.
There are examples where the peoples in question are made out to be what the author might consider to be humorous. But would the subjects of the author's humor think that it was comical? Or could there not be others besides the author outside of the group of people in question that could not think it was funny? And would it matter if the author was of the same group of people?
Then there are examples in movies, books etc that use sterotyping to have the effect to be disparging to a group of people. Even if the author claimes it is funny, does that ligitimize any denigration that could be seen toward the group of people in question?
This actually happened to me. I was in a lounge with professional employees that were telling what they called jokes about people of Appalachian origin. I complained to the administration and they claimed that the jokes were allowed because they were funny. I asked in the hearing as to what could be the difference if "Jew" was replaced where they used the word for people of Appalachian descent. They said that they would not tell jokes with that in mind because I was there but they could tell jokes that were disparging to those of Appalachian descent because none of those according to them were there. I answerd them by saying that if you say it about them, you say it about me.
Lou
Posted by ClearSkies on January 16, 2007, at 20:39:34
In reply to Joy Luck Club + stereotypes... - Auntie Mel, posted by one woman cine on January 16, 2007, at 11:16:13
Isn't it wonderful how we can help enrich others' points of view by merely suggesting that they read a book or watch a film? If one is housebound, or unable to travel, being able to read or watch about another's views and experiences becomes invaluable, irreplaceable.
> I must respectfully disagree with Joy Luck Club...
>Have you read a book that might flesh out the author's story? Something that has resonated with you, perhaps?
>
>
> By extension of Auntie Mel's and Kath's "Joy Luck Club" -
>
>
> For understanding groups we don't understand, read book "XYZ"
>Or, maybe, "for insight in trying to understand groups we don't understand, read book "XYZ" ."
>
> watch (or read) One Flew over the Cuckoo's nest to understand the mentally ill.
>I'd also suggest reading Sylvia Plath's "The Bell Jar", and also "The Noonday Demon", and "An Unquiet Mind". All excellent books, all with their own stories to tell.
> watch the Lone Ranger to understand American Indians...
>I liked the movie "Smoke Signals" for its take on modern reservation life. ("Don't laugh so much," says one character. "You're supposed to look stoic.")
> read (or watch) Huckleberry Finn or the Color purple to understand african americans...
>Hmmm, Olivia Butler? Maya Angelou? How about a Spike Lee film?
> To understand the South, read Flannery O'connor or Tennesee William's "streetcar named desire"
>
> Watch the Sopranos to understand Italian americans.
>
> & on it goes.....Indeed, on and on it goes... reading, watching films, exposing ourselves to literature and art from cultures foreign to ours is what sparks enquiry; leads to understanding, revelation, compassion....
I did read a certain tone into your post, one woman cine. I interpreted it as less than supportive of another poster's suggestion. Perhaps that's because of our personal styles. I tend to be informal and often flippant - though I'm dead serious here. It is impossible to "read" intent in the posts here.
That's my 2 cents. Thanks,
ClearSkies
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