![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 26 to 50 of 74. Go back in thread:
Posted by muffled on May 6, 2010, at 16:06:05
In reply to Re: caring about each other, posted by Dr. Bob on May 5, 2010, at 21:31:33
"Thanks! It wouldn't be civil of me to refer to anyone as maddening, but I do also care about those who I don't see eye to eye with. :-)
Bob"
You said it w/o ACTUALLY saying it....ROFL.
Now THAT is slick.
You da man.
You playin it.
Having fun yet?
Must be or you wouldn't post, you'd just disappear.
Cuz thats what you do.
Or mebbe you just ever the curious scientist.
Maybe both.
"Caring"....thats a dicey word Bob....
tho perhaps fluffy and empty enuf to not really mean a whole lot.
I can care, but it doesn't mean I make any changes to suit anything but my own beleifs.
Tho 'caring' would IMPLY otherwise. It does not.
I beleive what I SEE. How people ACT.
Not empty words.
I don't mean to personally diss you Bob.
Just I don't like to see you hurting people.
:(
Btw FWIW, the geek stuff behind this site is a marvel. You may not understand people, but you sure are a whiz at computer stuff.
All is not lost.
Best wishes
M
Posted by free on May 6, 2010, at 18:31:11
In reply to Re: talking to Babblers » Free, posted by Deneb on May 5, 2010, at 16:07:37
> Yay! I'm not alone!
>
> :-)
>
> I hope Dr. Bob talks to you too!
>
> DenebGreat! Glad you're not feeling alone ~~smiles.
Posted by Deneb on May 6, 2010, at 19:29:36
In reply to Re: caring about each other » Dr. Bob, posted by Dinah on May 6, 2010, at 8:51:25
Thanks for explaining Dinah! You're so smart!
Dinah, I still don't understand why you felt/feel that way. Can you explain in chat? I want to make sure I don't do something like that again.
Posted by Deneb on May 6, 2010, at 19:33:02
In reply to Re: caring about each other, posted by Dr. Bob on May 5, 2010, at 21:31:33
> Thanks! It wouldn't be civil of me to refer to anyone as maddening, but I do also care about those who I don't see eye to eye with. :-)
>
> BobThat's one of the things I like most about you Dr. Bob!
((((Dr. Bob)))))
Posted by free on May 6, 2010, at 20:26:26
In reply to Re: caring about each other, posted by Dr. Bob on May 5, 2010, at 21:31:33
>
> > I'll also admit that I have come to care about you(well, under the context of forum dynamics) even though we don't see eye to eye on "things" most of the time. It seems you have grown on me over the years with your mysterious and maddening ways (don't pbc me, I say this with an affectionate tone:)).
> >
> > And while I'm in a good mood, I'd like to congratulate you on the NY Times article. I wouldn't mind being called "a brilliant and reticent Web mastermind" myself. Well done, Bob. Good for you!
> >
> > Free
>
> Thanks! It wouldn't be civil of me to refer to anyone as maddening, but I do also care about those who I don't see eye to eye with. :-)
>
> BobI think you're saying you care about me. Thanks, Bob, it's a love-fest! Let's enjoy it while it lasts. :)
Posted by obsidian on May 6, 2010, at 22:30:30
In reply to masterful » Dr. Bob, posted by muffled on May 6, 2010, at 16:06:05
muffly,
where are you coming from?
thanks,
sid
Posted by muffled on May 6, 2010, at 22:38:11
In reply to Re: masterful » muffled, posted by obsidian on May 6, 2010, at 22:30:30
Sorry, from a place of hurt.
Never mind me.
Thx
M
Posted by jane d on May 6, 2010, at 23:41:28
In reply to Re: caring about each other » Dr. Bob, posted by Dinah on May 6, 2010, at 8:51:25
Or Posters X, Y, and Z could simplify their lives by deciding to interact with each other and all the other posters in the alphabet instead. On the board, in chat, or somewhere else entirely. Much less complicated and more gratifying.
Posted by PartlyCloudy on May 7, 2010, at 6:21:18
In reply to Re: caring about each other » Dinah, posted by jane d on May 6, 2010, at 23:41:28
This post needs a "like" button.
Posted by Dinah on May 7, 2010, at 8:16:55
In reply to Re: caring about each other » Dinah, posted by jane d on May 6, 2010, at 23:41:28
Yes indeed. :)
That would be ideal. And that's likely what a good number of posters do.
But if Dr. Bob were that irrelevant, Admin might be smaller?
I think I got caught up in the intellectual challenge of figuring out what Dr. Bob was asking for. :) That really wasn't even what I started off the post intending to say.
Posted by Dinah on May 7, 2010, at 8:33:25
In reply to Re: caring about each other » Dinah, posted by TherapyGirl on May 6, 2010, at 15:12:26
Thanks, Therapygirl.
My therapist is really big on guiding me gently to see how my thoughts and my actions based on those thoughts contribute to the results I tend to receive. He has an interest in community dynamics.He used Babble a lot when he was trying to show me that I was not powerless in this sort of situation. It's his training you hear. :)
I was a bit confused as to what response Dr. Bob was trying to elicit from us. It appears he was looking for something in particular, and in context of the thread, I wasn't sure what that was. I was thinking out loud, and am still not sure if that's what he is aiming at.
Posted by Glydin 2010 on May 7, 2010, at 8:50:56
In reply to Re: caring about each other » TherapyGirl, posted by Dinah on May 7, 2010, at 8:33:25
Maybe Dr. Bob wanted a little ego boost? Who knows but him....
I'll be the first to admit that I could be odd person out on this, BUT truly honestly all I really expect of Dr. Bob is the adm. of the boards. My opinions and thoughts about him don't go much passed that. He is not the first thing that comes to mind FOR ME when I visit.
Posted by Tabitha on May 7, 2010, at 10:51:17
In reply to Re: caring about each other » jane d, posted by PartlyCloudy on May 7, 2010, at 6:21:18
> This post needs a "like" button.
Totally.
Posted by Tabitha on May 7, 2010, at 11:43:34
In reply to Re: caring about each other » Dr. Bob, posted by Dinah on May 6, 2010, at 8:51:25
I see how Dr Bob's line of inquiry about expectations setting up outcome was relevant to Poster X, and to some degree with Poster Y, but it falls apart for me with Poster Z also.
So Poster Z idealizes Dr Bob, gets a big boost off any attention from Dr Bob, then feels extreme distress when Dr Bob doesn't provide that same level of attention. So obviously Poster Z is holding expectations that will lead to repeated distress periods.
Yet what's Dr Bob doing? He's enabling the idealization phases by allowing all the gushing admiration posts and interacting with Poster Z at the babble events. So he's feeding this cycle of fixation and distress for Poster Z.
Sigh. If one thinks the good outweighs the bad for Poster Z here, or that this is the option of least harm, I guess it's all OK? Is that what Dr Bob is assuming? Has he made some wise decision here? Poster Y might imagine so. Poster X, on the other hand, might think he's just enjoying an ego boost at the cost of continued harm to Poster Z.
A person might think Dr Bob could clear it all up for us by giving us a clue why he's taking the approach he's taking. Again, Poster Y's and Poster X's will draw different conclusions about his silence.
P.S. Obvs Bob has some Poster Y's at the NYT. "Brilliant and reticent". Wow, I guess he's encouraging us all to be Poster Y's with that sig. Yet Poster X might see it as more evidence that he's an out-of-touch narcissist.
Posted by Dinah on May 7, 2010, at 12:02:00
In reply to Re: caring about each other » Dinah, posted by Tabitha on May 7, 2010, at 11:43:34
I meant no one in particular with any of the posters, and my own struggles with my therapist were on my mind when I wrote up Poster Z. I was just trying to try to figure out what Dr. Bob was trying to lead us to, given the context.
I threw out a guess, and others might as well, but if we don't get his point, I hope he'll be more explicit. It would be around this stage that I'd be pounding my head and telling my therapist to just tell me what he wanted to have me know. And of course, Dr. Bob isn't our therapist.
Posted by Dr. Bob on May 7, 2010, at 12:19:42
In reply to Re: caring about each other » Dinah, posted by jane d on May 6, 2010, at 23:41:28
> So that Poster X might want to question whether your intent towards them is harmful or if whether their expectations of your actions and their interpretations of your intent lead them to actions that bring about the result they fear.
>
> And Poster Z might be better off recognizing the severe limitations of your role here, along with the many evidences of your caring about Babble in general and Babblers in particular. And that no matter how administrative the role, the relationship with each Babbler is bound to be different ... And that those individual relationships, however limited, are special in their own way and the Babblers are special to you in their own way.
>
> Is that what you were looking for?
>
> If it is, might it be your turn to own your share of interactions?
>
> DinahI think that was excellent, thank you. Sid, are those the sort of dynamics you had in mind?
"My share" means my prophecies or expectations about posters might, by influencing my actions toward them, also become realities? I'm constrained by the policies and procedures here, but that's definitely still possible.
> I can care, but it doesn't mean I make any changes to suit anything but my own beleifs.
I agree, not making a change to suit someone else's beliefs doesn't necessarily mean not caring about them.
> I don't mean to personally diss you Bob.
> Just I don't like to see you hurting people.
>
> MI don't like to hurt people, either. At the same time, prophecies or expectations of hurt can make real hurt more likely.
> Posters X, Y, and Z could simplify their lives by deciding to interact with each other and all the other posters in the alphabet instead. On the board, in chat, or somewhere else entirely. Much less complicated and more gratifying.
>
> jane dThat's true. Posters have the power to not to engage with those they don't get along with.
--
> Dr. Bob, I don't think that you've ever "spoken" to me and that's just fine. I prefer to fly under the radar, LOL, but I do appreciate having this space.
>
> TherapyGirlThanks! :-)
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on May 7, 2010, at 13:42:33
In reply to Re: caring about each other » Dinah, posted by Tabitha on May 7, 2010, at 11:43:34
> Poster X might feel that you are insensitive and provocative. ... They think you will hurt them
>
> Poster Y ... might consider your [interactions] to be evidence of your wit and of a detached interest, and ... busyness.
>
> Poster Z ... [tends] to interpret things as meaning he didn't care about me.
>
> Dinah> Poster Z idealizes Dr Bob
>
> He's enabling the idealization phases ... Poster X ... might think he's just enjoying an ego boost
>
> TabithaDinah and Tabitha, are you referring to the same types of poster as X and Z?
> all the other posters in the alphabet
>
> jane dI think it might be useful to think about other posters in the alphabet, too. Can anybody else imagine other hypothetical posters? Or other hypothetical expectations of me?
Bob
Posted by Deneb on May 7, 2010, at 15:07:30
In reply to Re: caring about each other, posted by Dr. Bob on May 7, 2010, at 12:19:42
(((((((((Dr. Bob)))))))))))))
Poster D interprets your interest in this thread as evidence of your caring and wanting to help Babblers. Poster D feels all warm inside.
Hugs from poster "D". LOL
(((((((((((((((((((Dr. Bob)))))))))))))))))))))
Happy sigh. Poster D loves you soooo much! You're the best.
Posted by obsidian on May 7, 2010, at 21:54:02
In reply to Re: caring about each other, posted by Dr. Bob on May 7, 2010, at 12:19:42
> I think that was excellent, thank you. Sid, are those the sort of dynamics you had in mind?yes :-)
that's it. Thank goodness for dinah, and her powers of explanation.
Posted by jane d on May 8, 2010, at 0:55:56
In reply to Re: caring about each other, posted by Dr. Bob on May 7, 2010, at 12:19:42
> > Posters X, Y, and Z could simplify their lives by deciding to interact with each other and all the other posters in the alphabet instead. On the board, in chat, or somewhere else entirely. Much less complicated and more gratifying.
> >
> > jane d
>
> That's true. Posters have the power to not to engage with those they don't get along with.
>We don't get along? I'm sorry to hear that!
I'm also sorry if I offended you in any way since that wasn't my intent. I merely meant that the amount of your engagement with individual posters here is limited. It's been that way for as long as I can remember and there's no reason to think it's going to change. If one wants more of a personal relationship I think one is more likely to find that with other posters. Therefore that's more gratifying. And less complicated without the power imbalance.
Anyway it's worked for me and I'm grateful to you for providing a place it could happen in.
Jane,
wondering if she's put her foot further in her mouth but too sleepy to care
Posted by Tabitha on May 8, 2010, at 1:08:13
In reply to Re: other posters in the alphabet, posted by Dr. Bob on May 7, 2010, at 13:42:33
>
> Dinah and Tabitha, are you referring to the same types of poster as X and Z?I think so. My Poster X is the type that sees you as a tyrant and gets blocked repeatedly as a result of expressing anger over that here. My Poster Z is the type that gets a huuuuge crush on you and expresses that here. I assumed we had roughly the same X and Z types in mind, then Dinah was also drawing a parallel between Poster Z's interaction with you and her own interaction with her therapist.
Posted by vwoolf on May 9, 2010, at 2:42:20
In reply to Re: other posters in the alphabet » Dr. Bob, posted by Tabitha on May 8, 2010, at 1:08:13
Interesting discussion.
Well I suppose there could be Babbler A who doesn't post at all because she is so in awe of an omnimpotent and wrathful Dr Bob. She might be convinced that he would ignore her posts or be angry with her for daring to post:
or
Babbler B who might fear that Dr Bob has ulterior motives in hosting this site. She might be constantly suspicious of what he wanted of her, whether to use her as case material or, more ominously, for some kind of secret experiment;
or
Babbler C who might think that Dr Bob would be interested in and excited by her pathology (because otherwise why would he run a site like this - he must have some prurient interest). She might play up her symptoms to draw and hold his attention.
I suppose I can identify with all the attitudes expressed so far, A to Z and probably others besides. I go through most of them on any single day. I think it is one of the things about therapy that frustrates me most, not knowing who is on the other side of the blank slate, and being forced to expose myself in attempting to work it out.
Mostly with Babble my interaction has been with other Babblers and transferencial stuff with Dr Bob is limited. However I have often been aware of it working away in the background. After I post I wonder whether he will see it and what he will think. I guess it has been helpful to me to have a place to bring things where the exposure is not as raw as in therapy but involves similar dynamics. I am not sure that I would have survived the first few years of therapy if I had not had this place to bring things to first. It has felt like a half-way house, a place safe enough to test things out but not meaningless like many other unmoderated boards where there is no sense of the eyes of the other looking on.
And I suppose that's what it is all about - the eyes of the other. Are they cruel or mocking or loving or bored or preoccupied or amused or hateful or murderous or hungry?
Or perhaps nothing at all? Perhaps, and this might be the worst thing of all, perhaps there are no eyes, nobody looking. Perhaps there really is no Dr Bob.
Posted by Dr. Bob on May 10, 2010, at 7:38:35
In reply to Re: caring about each other, posted by jane d on May 8, 2010, at 0:55:56
> I merely meant that the amount of your engagement with individual posters here is limited. It's been that way for as long as I can remember and there's no reason to think it's going to change. If one wants more of a personal relationship I think one is more likely to find that with other posters. Therefore that's more gratifying. And less complicated without the power imbalance.
Thanks for elaborating. I agree. At the same time, posters may find interactions with me ungratifying and complicated even if they aren't looking for a personal relationship with me. But that may be a learning opportunity.
> Anyway it's worked for me and I'm grateful to you for providing a place it could happen in.
>
> Jane,
> wondering if she's put her foot further in her mouthThanks, and no worries,
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on May 11, 2010, at 0:03:21
In reply to Re: other posters in the alphabet, posted by vwoolf on May 9, 2010, at 2:42:20
> Poster X might feel that you are insensitive and provocative. ... They think you will hurt them
> He's enabling the idealization phases ... Poster X ... might think he's just enjoying an ego boost
> Poster X is the type that sees you as a tyrant
> Babbler A who doesn't post at all because she is so in awe of an omnimpotent and wrathful Dr Bob. She might be convinced that he would ignore her posts or be angry with her for daring to post
--
> Poster Y ... might consider your [interactions] to be evidence of your wit and of a detached interest, and ... busyness. They might appreciate that even though you are so busy, you take time for Babble.
> Poster D interprets your interest in this thread as evidence of your caring and wanting to help Babblers.
--
> Poster Z ... [tends] to interpret things as meaning he didn't care about me. ... wants to be special to you
> Poster Z idealizes Dr Bob
> Poster Z is the type that gets a huuuuge crush on you
--
> Babbler B who might fear that Dr Bob has ulterior motives in hosting this site. She might be constantly suspicious of what he wanted of her, whether to use her as case material or, more ominously, for some kind of secret experiment
> Babbler C who might think that Dr Bob would be interested in and excited by her pathology (because otherwise why would he run a site like this - he must have some prurient interest). She might play up her symptoms to draw and hold his attention.
--
I tried to summarize and group above the hypothetical types of posters that have been mentioned so far. What do you think? Any others?
> I suppose that's what it is all about - the eyes of the other.
>
> vwoolfI also tried to match them up with eyes:
> Are they:
> cruel or mocking ... or hateful or murderousX, A
> loving or bored or preoccupied or amused
Y, D, Z
> hungry?
B, C
How about that?
Bob
Posted by vwoolf on May 11, 2010, at 7:14:40
In reply to Re: other posters in the alphabet, posted by Dr. Bob on May 11, 2010, at 0:03:21
I guess there might also be poster P who would feel supercilious and superior or sceptical and would behave quite critically and abusively towards Dr Bob. I'm finding this one more difficult to define - I can see how she would behave, but not how she would view Dr Bob. I understand that it would be the inverse of feeling vitimised. Perhaps this is the kind of poster that Dr bob would dread most?
There could also be Poster Q, an incest survivor, who might expect Dr Bob to treat her as an equal, to share inside information with her and not with other posters. I suppose this falls into the category of Hungry Eyes, but with a twist in the tail.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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