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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 30. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by zazenduckie on December 8, 2006, at 9:52:53
In reply to Re: ways of describing suicide, posted by Dr. Bob on December 7, 2006, at 23:23:06
From the article you linked toSuicide Contagion is Real
>...between 1984 and 1987, journalists in Vienna covered the deaths of individuals who jumped in front of trains in the subway system. The coverage was extensive and dramatic. In 1987, a campaign alerted reporters to the possible negative effects of such reporting, and suggested alternate strategies for coverage. In the first six months after the campaign began, subway suicides and non-fatal attempts dropped by more than eighty percent. The total number of suicides in Vienna declined as well.
Research finds an increase in suicide by readers or viewers when:
The number of stories about individual suicides increases
A particular death is reported at length or in many stories
..................Oh like you encouraging the "memorial threads" and making your self-described virtual cemetary and encouraging people to post still more threads with links to the dead person's posts?
................
>The story of an individual death by suicide is placed on the front page or at the beginning of a broadcast.................
Oh like you choosing to move the Babble suicide stories to the main board instead of following your usual rules about subject matter?
...........
>The headlines about specific suicide deaths are dramatic
............
I'm glad you're aware of this BOB!
Where do you report adverse events from this board besides your link to your own email?....................
> I know this isn't a "media story", but I still think it's important to be careful about how we talk about suicide:
>
> > Certain ways of describing suicide in the news contribute to what behavioral scientists call "suicide contagion" or "copycat" suicides.
> > Research suggests that inadvertently romanticizing suicide or idealizing those who take their own lives by portraying suicide as a heroic or romantic act may encourage others to identify with the victim.
> >
> > http://www.afsp.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.viewpage&page_id=7852EBBC-9FB2-6691-54125A1AD4221E49
>
> Follow-ups regarding this should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. Here's a link:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20061202/msgs/710976.html
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bob
Posted by Dinah on December 8, 2006, at 10:17:36
In reply to Suicide contagion is real. » Dr. Bob, posted by zazenduckie on December 8, 2006, at 9:52:53
Would you have us bury them at the crossroads, so to speak, Zazenduckie? Not acknowledge their death or life because of the way they died?
Your concern for the living is admirable. And I mean that sincerely, although I have absolutely less than no hope you'll believe that. Perhaps you'd like to comfort the bereaved, and speak up about the pain suicide brings? About how there's nothing terribly romantic about it. About how sad you are that Pseudoname wasn't able to hold out for better times? He was so excited about the Babble trip, and that was such a very short time ago. When depression is at its worst, it's hard to think that things will ever be better. But the fact is that there *are* times in most people's lives that *are* better. I keep thinking about the post where Pseudoname said that that trip didn't need to be a one time thing. That he was looking forward to going to other Babble parties, connected with other APA conventions. And how for him, this was a one time thing, and how I wish he could have remembered that post when he was feeling at his worst. How I wish that even when depression was crowding out most other thoughts in his head, he could have at least remembered that not so long ago he had fun and was looking forward to having fun again.
And perhaps admin objections directed at Bob's choices could be more objectively considered when the iron is cool? When your objections wouldn't so directly link to the death of someone that many people here knew and cared about? You've made it clear that you're not crazy about Bob's administrating. It's hard for me, at least, to forget that when you're talking about this topic.
Posted by (((zazenduckie))) on December 8, 2006, at 10:58:45
In reply to Re: Suicide contagion is real. » zazenduckie, posted by Dinah on December 8, 2006, at 10:17:36
> Would you have us bury them at the crossroads, so to speak, Zazenduckie?I feel physically ill. I feel accused. I feel sickened. I feel abused. I feel emotionally manipulated. I feel repulsion. I feel outraged. I feel disgusted. I feel revulsion. How dare you?
Not acknowledge their death or life because of the way they died?
How dare you? I have said nothing like that.
I might remind you we don't even KNOW how ASV died. And we have rumours about pseudoname which Bob has chosen to post thereby violate his privacy which he valued.>
Posted by Dinah on December 8, 2006, at 11:11:45
In reply to How Dare You? » Dinah, posted by (((zazenduckie))) on December 8, 2006, at 10:58:45
I've felt many of those things myself recently.
I asked for clarification.
What would you have Bob do? You appear to be asking him not to announce their deaths. Or to only announce them on the grief board? Have I misinterpreted?
I feel terribly sick when I think of that.
I never said Ame Sans Vie was a suicide. I wouldn't make that assumption.
Posted by (((zazenduckie))) on December 8, 2006, at 11:11:54
In reply to Re: Suicide contagion is real. » zazenduckie, posted by Dinah on December 8, 2006, at 10:17:36
Please don't address anymore personal posts to me. Thanks
Posted by verne on December 8, 2006, at 11:16:24
In reply to Re: Suicide contagion is real. » zazenduckie, posted by Dinah on December 8, 2006, at 10:17:36
Dinah,
Examine what you said in response to Zazenduckie: (my commentary is in parentheses)
"Your concern for the living is admirable. And I mean that sincerely, although I have absolutely less than no hope you'll believe that. (suggesting you know what Z believes) Perhaps you'd like to comfort the bereaved, (suggesting what Z would do) and speak up about the pain suicide brings? (suggesting what Z would say) About how there's nothing terribly romantic about it? (suggesting what Z would feel) About how sad you are that Pseudoname wasn't able to hold out for better times?" (suggesting what Z would feel and say)
Wouldn't it be better to let Z believe, think, act, and speak for himself?
verne
Posted by linkadge on December 8, 2006, at 11:30:45
In reply to Thinking and Feeling for Others » Dinah, posted by verne on December 8, 2006, at 11:16:24
I think its absolutely critical that a persons death be remembered regardless of the method of death.
Covering up the death of suicide victoms prevents the much needed and due attention to the issue. If somebody kills themselves, attention should be brought to the matter as it can work to bring change.
Things only get worse when you sweep them under the carpet and pretend they don't exist.
People who kill themselves because of reading of anothers death are already very sick.
When I hear about people who think they have accomplished something by preventing a suicide, it doesn't make any sense to me. Preventing a suicide is meaninless unless you can actually do something to improve the indivudual's quality of life.
Linkadge
Posted by Declan on December 8, 2006, at 13:30:32
In reply to Re: Thinking and Feeling for Others, posted by linkadge on December 8, 2006, at 11:30:45
Well, he was a friend of mine, and I would like, just for a little while, to have him remembered.
It is one of the most basic things about being human...that we remember the dead, not for their sake, but for ours.
Other animals do it, elephants certainly.
As for all the desperate people? I dunno.
(We cope with the despair of others more readily, given our heirarchy.)
Posted by ClearSkies on December 8, 2006, at 14:08:21
In reply to Suicide contagion is real. » Dr. Bob, posted by zazenduckie on December 8, 2006, at 9:52:53
> Oh like you choosing to move the Babble suicide stories to the main board instead of following your usual rules about subject matter?
>Maybe Dr Bob was keeping the threads on the main board where the posters were most active? That would make sense to me.
> I'm glad you're aware of this BOB!
> Where do you report adverse events from this board besides your link to your own email?
>Where do you think Dr Bob is obliged to report adverse events to? Isn't he the administrator (and so the reports would just go to him)??
ClearSkies
Posted by zazenduckie on December 8, 2006, at 14:57:29
In reply to Re: Thinking and Feeling for Others, posted by Declan on December 8, 2006, at 13:30:32
> Well, he was a friend of mine, and I would like, just for a little while, to have him
remembered.I remember him. I'm not going to participate in a who was his best friend and gets to speak for him now kind of debate. I think that's disrespectful.
And I think it's ghoulish to collect quotes to put in Bob's self-described "cyber cemetary". I think it would be better to have a closed board for people to talk to each other without the looming specter of being included in Bob's next project rather than to invite in all the gawkers and immortalize it for as long as dr-bob.org lasts. It's like sending the National Enquirer in to cover the funeral. Closeup of your face and "how do you feel ?"
> It is one of the most basic things about being human...that we remember the dead, not for their sake, but for ours.I wish it could be done privately and with dignity rather as a public spectacle later to be dissected by Bob in one of his professional "presentations".
> Other animals do it, elephants certainly.
> As for all the desperate people? I dunno.
> (We cope with the despair of others more readily, given our heirarchy.)and which heirarchy might that be?
Posted by zazenduckie on December 8, 2006, at 15:00:25
In reply to Thinking and Feeling for Others » Dinah, posted by verne on December 8, 2006, at 11:16:24
Posted by zazenduckie on December 8, 2006, at 15:07:57
In reply to Re: Thinking and Feeling for Others, posted by linkadge on December 8, 2006, at 11:30:45
>
> Covering up the death of suicide victoms prevents the much needed and due attention to the issue. If somebody kills themselves, attention should be brought to the matter as it can work to bring change.Examining suicide contagion, looking at the quality of medical information or misinformation being posted on the board etc etc etc Yes attention should be paid.
>>
> People who kill themselves because of reading of anothers death are already very sick.That WOULD seem quite likely. Yes it would.
>
> When I hear about people who think they have accomplished something by preventing a suicide, it doesn't make any sense to me. Preventing a suicide is meaninless
I don't agree. I wouldn't want one to wait for the other. Save the life first. Not that I disagree that more problems need to be addressed.>
>
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>
Posted by zazenduckie on December 8, 2006, at 15:22:44
In reply to Re: Suicide contagion is real. » zazenduckie, posted by Dinah on December 8, 2006, at 10:17:36
>Perhaps you'd like to comfort the bereaved,
This IS the admin board
> and speak up about the pain suicide brings?
This IS the admin board
>About how there's nothing terribly romantic about it
This IS the admin board
> About how sad you are that Pseudoname wasn't able to hold out for better times?
This IS the admin board
He was so excited about the Babble trip, and that was such a very short time ago. When depression is at its worst, it's hard to think that things will ever be better. But the fact is that there *are* times in most people's lives that *are* better. I keep thinking about the post where Pseudoname said that that trip didn't need to be a one time thing. That he was looking forward to going to other Babble parties, connected with other APA conventions. And how for him, this was a one time thing, and how I wish he could have remembered that post when he was feeling at his worst. How I wish that even when depression was crowding out most other thoughts in his head, he could have at least remembered that not so long ago he had fun and was looking forward to having fun again.
This IS the admin board. I don't think any of those subjec`ts would be appropriate here. I am addressing administrative issues.> And perhaps admin objections directed at Bob's choices could be more objectively considered when the iron is cool?
I think something must be done to change things. I think my efforts in that direction are just as worthy of respect as the sentiments you seem to prefer.
>When your objections wouldn't so directly link to the death of someone that many people here knew and cared about?
My objections are certainly linked to the death of someone we knew and cared for.
>You've made it clear that you're not crazy about Bob's administrating.
I'm not alone in that. This is the admin board and I'm discussing Bob's administrative policies. I'm also a witness to his past history. I think that's valuable. People who don't want to hear my views are certainly able to refrain from opening my posts. I have not taken any of my objections onto any other board.> It's hard for me, at least, to forget that when you're talking about this topic.
I'm quite sure it is LOL I'm quite sure it is.
Posted by ClearSkies on December 8, 2006, at 16:33:28
In reply to This IS the admin board, posted by zazenduckie on December 8, 2006, at 15:22:44
So, Dinah can't post to you but you can post this to her?? Where can she respond to it?
This IS an administrative question.IF it was me - and I acknowledge that your post was not to me - I'd be upset that I wasn't able to make a suitable and civil comment directly to you.
ClearSkies
Posted by zazenduckie on December 8, 2006, at 16:45:51
In reply to Re: This IS the admin board » zazenduckie, posted by ClearSkies on December 8, 2006, at 16:33:28
> So, Dinah can't post to you but you can post this to her??
It's not posted to her. It's posted to the issues. As I understand it, she could post to address the contents of my post but not directly to me.
> This IS an administrative question.
>
> IF it was me - and I acknowledge that your post was not to me - I'd be upset that I wasn't able to make a suitable and civil comment directly to you.
Well your empathy is famous locally so I'd like to state that it wasn't meant to upset anyone. I was trying to follow the guidelines. If I didn't I apologize.
Posted by zazenduckie on December 8, 2006, at 16:58:44
In reply to This IS the admin board, posted by zazenduckie on December 8, 2006, at 15:22:44
Sorry I think I made a mistake in form. I hope I've found the offending phrase and corrected to Babble standards.
> > And perhaps admin objections directed at Bob's choices could be more objectively considered when the iron is cool?
>
> I think something must be done to change things. I think my efforts in that direction are just as worthy of respect as the sentiments suggested in this post.
>
Posted by Declan on December 8, 2006, at 17:07:23
In reply to Re: Thinking and Feeling for Others » Declan, posted by zazenduckie on December 8, 2006, at 14:57:29
Thankyou for your thoughtful corrections of my unfortunate lapse of taste.
I am reminded that this is the Admin Board.
Posted by zazenduckie on December 8, 2006, at 17:23:44
In reply to Re: Thinking and Feeling for Others » zazenduckie, posted by Declan on December 8, 2006, at 17:07:23
There there
Better now?
Posted by gardenergirl on December 8, 2006, at 18:28:59
In reply to ((((((((((((((((((((Declan))))))))))))))))))))) » Declan, posted by zazenduckie on December 8, 2006, at 17:23:44
Could be wrong, of course. But it's an educated guess.
No pats on the head from me, Declan. A hug or two if you wish, though.
Take care,
gg
Posted by zazenduckie on December 8, 2006, at 18:38:35
In reply to I suspect Declan is a grown man, posted by gardenergirl on December 8, 2006, at 18:28:59
Posted by Declan on December 8, 2006, at 19:16:32
In reply to ((((((((((((((((((((Declan))))))))))))))))))))) » Declan, posted by zazenduckie on December 8, 2006, at 17:23:44
Maybe I'm a grown man.
I don't feel quite better though.
I shall have to take myself off to the Politics Board.
Posted by LlurpsieBlossom on December 8, 2006, at 21:15:11
In reply to Re: ((((((((((((((((((((Declan)))))))))))))))))))), posted by Declan on December 8, 2006, at 19:16:32
Posted by verne on December 8, 2006, at 21:50:44
In reply to I suspect Declan is a grown man, posted by gardenergirl on December 8, 2006, at 18:28:59
I'll take a pat on the head any day. I'm not all that *grown up* or very *manly*. I can't start a fire, hunt, bring home the bacon, fix anything, ride a horse, drive a car, barbecue, or even carve the turkey - which is really embarrassing when I'm hosting the family Thanksgiving Dinner.
Please hold the cranberry sauce and the sarcasm.
verne
Posted by jylisnotlaughing on December 9, 2006, at 14:14:32
In reply to Re: I suspect Declan is a grown man, posted by verne on December 8, 2006, at 21:50:44
are the pbc ?
Posted by gardenergirl on December 9, 2006, at 20:19:43
In reply to where?, posted by jylisnotlaughing on December 9, 2006, at 14:14:32
I apologize for my snarcastic remarks (great word, tofu!) I was stirred up, and I did not step back and sleep on it as I said I would.
gg
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