![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 26 to 50 of 70. Go back in thread:
Posted by Dinah on September 13, 2006, at 11:20:22
In reply to Re: some merging of the two worlds, posted by Dr. Bob on September 13, 2006, at 10:44:25
> Another issue is whether they can be impartial posters. I'm not saying they're not, but that's less of an issue because other posters can provide support.
Ouch.
> Regarding the deputies themselves, I think it's inevitable that they won't always be seen, or themselves feel, like regular posters.
Ouch.
> Regarding the community as a whole, if there's more sharing of power, there may be less splitting (seeing administrators as bad and posters as good) and more of a feeling of shared ownership and that we're all in this together. But power and authority will be issues no matter who has them.
Or there'll be the same splitting, but more people on one side of the split. People who came here for support and to be part of something. Not to be separate.
> If anyone has any suggestions regarding a middle way, or another different way, I'm open to suggestions. Or at least try to be. :-)
I suggest a replacement benevolent monarch with similar ideas of civility as your own.
> New deputies are a key ingredient, so I definitely want to get back to them. I'm really sorry that's been stalled, and grateful for their patience.
Yes, please do. I'm very anxious to share the many benefits of giving and growing as people.
Sustainability is the real key, Dr. Bob. Sustainability.
Posted by Dinah on September 13, 2006, at 13:49:48
In reply to Two worlds colliding, posted by Dinah on September 13, 2006, at 11:20:22
I'm a flippin' idiot. Tilting at windmills till the end.
Give it the h*ll up, Dinah. They're just windmills.
Posted by AuntieMel on September 13, 2006, at 14:11:37
In reply to Oh never mind..., posted by Dinah on September 13, 2006, at 13:49:48
But they're mighty fine windmills.
Posted by llrrrpp on September 13, 2006, at 16:22:28
In reply to Re: Oh never mind... » Dinah, posted by AuntieMel on September 13, 2006, at 14:11:37
I appreciate each of the deputies as people. I especially enjoy having gotten to know Dinah better through babble chats. Now she seems more like a person to me, and less like an authority. I'm glad.
I like benevolent authorities, but I like real-life people even better.
-ll
Middle way? Dr. Bob, do you want a buddhist monk to be the new adminsitrator? And if there's problems with sustainablity, we deserve to know. It's important to me. I wouldn't mind volunteering to make this project more sustainable, but I woouldn't want to become involved in a way that would compromise my status as post-er and crazy person first and foremost. I don't know how such a thing is possible, or what is needed. Dr. Bob, you shouldn't be shy to ask for help if/when you need it. it's a community, and maybe we can help our community if you can tell us what needs fixing?
just a thought
Posted by gardenergirl on September 13, 2006, at 16:53:00
In reply to Two worlds colliding, posted by Dinah on September 13, 2006, at 11:20:22
> Yes, please do. I'm very anxious to share the many benefits of giving and growing as people.Do we have to declare the in-kind value on our taxes?
gg
Posted by Racer on September 13, 2006, at 17:43:13
In reply to Oh never mind..., posted by Dinah on September 13, 2006, at 13:49:48
> I'm a flippin' idiot. Tilting at windmills till the end.
>
> Give it the h*ll up, Dinah. They're just windmills.But they might be giants...
That's not to say that all windmills are giants, only that they might be...
"If we never looked at things and thought of what might be, why we'd all still be out there in the tall grass with the apes."
Posted by Phillipa on September 13, 2006, at 19:04:13
In reply to But... » Dinah, posted by Racer on September 13, 2006, at 17:43:13
I'd rather see an additional administrator so the deputies can pour our their souls like the rest of us. They work hard without a cent and I feel this is not fair to them. Love Phillipa
Posted by alexandra_k on September 14, 2006, at 9:02:57
In reply to Re: some merging of the two worlds, posted by Dr. Bob on September 13, 2006, at 10:44:25
is quoting more of what has gone before supposed to be a mark of understanding?
> I'm not sick of anyone.how about moderating in general? are you sick of that? i'm fairly sure you know what i'm getting at so lets not make the answer dependent on the precise meaning of 'sick of'.
>There are real issues that need to be addressed
such as...
> I do think my thinking about "the best of both worlds" is evolving:
> One issue is the sustainability, or advisability, of having one administrator.
so you aren't sustainable?
> More heads are better than one
i'm not sure that follows...
> if other administrators weren't posters, either volunteers would need to be recruited from elsewhere or employees would need to be hired. And those are valid alternatives.
so i guess you aren't sustainable then.
> I'm not inclined in that direction, but if this doesn't work, I may need to reconsider.
deputies don't seem to be willing when you aren't around to reinforce their being deputies...
> Regarding the role of the deputies in the community, one issue is whether they can be impartial administrators, and I think our current deputies have been.
fairly much, sure.
> Partly it's selection
of course. kudos to you.
> Another issue is whether they can be impartial posters. I'm not saying they're not, but that's less of an issue because other posters can provide support.
maybe it isn't about their supporting other posters so much as them posting about their vulnerabilities and asking for support from the community. in the sense that... if they are deputies their posting about their fears and vulnerabilities is more likely to be targeted by posters who are disgruntled by... oh... your blocking system, for example.
>it's also an opportunity to contribute to the site in an important way and may lead to learning and growth.in a way that other positions within the community don't lead to.
you seem to be doing all you can to foster a 'deputy' 'regular poster' divide. is it any wonder that they feel the sense of division when you seem to do what you can to foster it? and they say this... and you seem to continue on, oblivious. how many times do they need to say it? what are you trying to do? whoever isn't for me is against me? people who are for me have special positions within the community? special opportunities for growth and development? are you helping or harming the community in fostering this sense of division do you suppose?
> Regarding the community as a whole, if there's more sharing of power, there may be less splitting (seeing administrators as bad and posters as good)oh. i thought you fostered that so posters didn't turn on each other. rather... they focused on a common enemy... namely... you. i thought you fostered that...
> and more of a feeling of shared ownership and that we're all in this together.
who, sorry? you and the deputies?
> But power and authority will be issues no matter who has them.
and more especially when the moderator and / or deputies foster the notion of a power divide by such things as...
- not taking posters concerns seriously
- implicitly or explicitly implying that only deputies opinions / concerns are of importance
etc.> Regarding me, I benefit from and greatly appreciate the input and assistance of the deputies.
in the sense that you think it entitles you to say that 'we have decided' instead of 'i have decided'?
> I also have to manage them, and that may not be my strong suit, but maybe this will be a learning and growth experience for me, too.
you or whoever you pay or recruit to take over moderator role. but... it isn't going to amount to that - is it? i mean... you simply aren't willing to take other opinions into account enough to SHARE the power even less to actually turn the control over to someone else... and given that... do you really think you are going to get outside volounteers? you have to be kidding...
> Also, things change with time. Starting out is different, and poses different challenges, than keeping going. But change is hard, too, so that's an added stress.sure. you have the power... distributing that has to be hard for you. also... babble isn't the challenge it once was. there isn't the thrill of 'will people come?' anymore. the thrill of 'will this work?' anymore. your wife giving you a hard time about how much time you spend online? your work? is your sleep time comprimised? i guess you can't keep up that indefinately over the years...
> If anyone has any suggestions regarding a middle way, or another different way, I'm open to suggestions. Or at least try to be. :-)yeah whatever. been there. seen you ignore that.
> New deputies are a key ingredient, so I definitely want to get back to them. I'm really sorry that's been stalled, and grateful for their patience.sure sure. on with the plan ho.
Posted by Jost on September 14, 2006, at 12:37:46
In reply to Re: some merging of the two worlds » Dr. Bob, posted by alexandra_k on September 14, 2006, at 9:02:57
Hi, Alexandra_k. In the following post (a reaction to various excerpts from Bob's prior answers to various posts) you may not realize that other people-- myself anyway--don't know what you mean in many instance.s
Maybe you're only talking to Bob?
But if you do wants others in on the discussion (either understanding or possibly contributing), it would help (me at least) if you were somewhat more complete, rather than so elusive.--and also separated your concerns, so that they were clearer and more integrated and less confused with one another.
Let me give an exampe..
Bob wrote "I'm not sick of anyone..."
You wrote, "how about moderating in general? are you sick of that? i'm fairly sure you know what i'm getting at so lets not make the answer dependent on the precise meaning of 'sick of'."
You raise a valid point here, which I've wondered, which is: is Bob no longer interested in or able to moderate the board ( at least in staying in touch as much as I think the board needs from a moderator, and, hypothetically (to me), as he did in the past)?
But your point about "you know what I"m getting at..." confuses the issue, because now I'm thinking-- Alexandra_k thinks Bob deals with A_k's ideas by quibbling with the words she uses, rather than addressing the content of the ideas.
But, even if true, this point, this distracts from your important first point. It raises a complex, but, ultimately, probably personal issue between you and Bob, not having to do with the problem of Bob's involvement with Pbabble. As such, you invite people off on a meditation about your feelings about Bob's way of treating you (or possibly others, unknown--but at most concrete, you)-- and whatever feelings they may have about that.
But it really really makes it hard to think about the issue here.
Unless the more important issue for you is how Bob treats you,-- in which case, you're using the current discussion to show Bob once again how he treats you (and others, too)-- making it a general pattern, rather than a way of treating one person.
Could I suggest, in a way that is really friendly (because I like you), but may sound critical-- but I really mean it in a friendly way-- that this is really a separate issue. And if this main issue-- The need for Bob (or some moderator) to be more hands-on and engaged-- does matter to you, you'd be better served if youkept the moderator-discussion and the discussion of Bob's atittude with you, separate (ie in separate threads).
I'm only saying this because you could contribute a lot to the discussion. Maybe you're caught up in some feelings about Bob that undermines the steadiness of your gaze at the subject (ie moderation of pbabble)--and therefore interrupts your insights?
Again, I mean this in the best way-- that I'd like to see more of your critique about it-- but that things like "sick of" (and later, unclear references to things that Bob may have done to you--I think?) undermine the clarity and focus of the critique.
Jost
> is quoting more of what has gone before supposed to be a mark of understanding?
>
> > I'm not sick of anyone.
>
> how about moderating in general? are you sick of that? i'm fairly sure you know what i'm getting at so lets not make the answer dependent on the precise meaning of 'sick of'.
>
> >There are real issues that need to be addressed
>
> such as...
>
> > I do think my thinking about "the best of both worlds" is evolving:
>
> > One issue is the sustainability, or advisability, of having one administrator.
>
> so you aren't sustainable?
>
> > More heads are better than one
>
> i'm not sure that follows...
>
> > if other administrators weren't posters, either volunteers would need to be recruited from elsewhere or employees would need to be hired. And those are valid alternatives.
>
> so i guess you aren't sustainable then.
>
> > I'm not inclined in that direction, but if this doesn't work, I may need to reconsider.
>
> deputies don't seem to be willing when you aren't around to reinforce their being deputies...
>
> > Regarding the role of the deputies in the community, one issue is whether they can be impartial administrators, and I think our current deputies have been.
>
> fairly much, sure.
>
> > Partly it's selection
>
> of course. kudos to you.
>
> > Another issue is whether they can be impartial posters. I'm not saying they're not, but that's less of an issue because other posters can provide support.
>
> maybe it isn't about their supporting other posters so much as them posting about their vulnerabilities and asking for support from the community. in the sense that... if they are deputies their posting about their fears and vulnerabilities is more likely to be targeted by posters who are disgruntled by... oh... your blocking system, for example.
>
> >it's also an opportunity to contribute to the site in an important way and may lead to learning and growth.
>
> in a way that other positions within the community don't lead to.
>
> you seem to be doing all you can to foster a 'deputy' 'regular poster' divide. is it any wonder that they feel the sense of division when you seem to do what you can to foster it? and they say this... and you seem to continue on, oblivious. how many times do they need to say it? what are you trying to do? whoever isn't for me is against me? people who are for me have special positions within the community? special opportunities for growth and development? are you helping or harming the community in fostering this sense of division do you suppose?
>
> > Regarding the community as a whole, if there's more sharing of power, there may be less splitting (seeing administrators as bad and posters as good)
>
> oh. i thought you fostered that so posters didn't turn on each other. rather... they focused on a common enemy... namely... you. i thought you fostered that...
>
> > and more of a feeling of shared ownership and that we're all in this together.
>
> who, sorry? you and the deputies?
>
> > But power and authority will be issues no matter who has them.
>
> and more especially when the moderator and / or deputies foster the notion of a power divide by such things as...
> - not taking posters concerns seriously
> - implicitly or explicitly implying that only deputies opinions / concerns are of importance
> etc.
>
> > Regarding me, I benefit from and greatly appreciate the input and assistance of the deputies.
>
> in the sense that you think it entitles you to say that 'we have decided' instead of 'i have decided'?
>
> > I also have to manage them, and that may not be my strong suit, but maybe this will be a learning and growth experience for me, too.
>
> you or whoever you pay or recruit to take over moderator role. but... it isn't going to amount to that - is it? i mean... you simply aren't willing to take other opinions into account enough to SHARE the power even less to actually turn the control over to someone else... and given that... do you really think you are going to get outside volounteers? you have to be kidding...
>
> > Also, things change with time. Starting out is different, and poses different challenges, than keeping going. But change is hard, too, so that's an added stress.
>
> sure. you have the power... distributing that has to be hard for you. also... babble isn't the challenge it once was. there isn't the thrill of 'will people come?' anymore. the thrill of 'will this work?' anymore. your wife giving you a hard time about how much time you spend online? your work? is your sleep time comprimised? i guess you can't keep up that indefinately over the years...
>
> > If anyone has any suggestions regarding a middle way, or another different way, I'm open to suggestions. Or at least try to be. :-)
>
> yeah whatever. been there. seen you ignore that.
>
> > New deputies are a key ingredient, so I definitely want to get back to them. I'm really sorry that's been stalled, and grateful for their patience.
>
> sure sure. on with the plan ho.
>
>
Posted by llrrrpp on September 14, 2006, at 13:21:23
In reply to Re: some merging of the two worlds » alexandra_k, posted by Jost on September 14, 2006, at 12:37:46
I guess I appreciate a sense that the threads are being moderated, or at least read by the moderator. I'm not sure how much time it takes a moderator to read an entire day's worth of posts on psycho-babble. It's probably significant.
It's important though. In August, I privately babblemailed the administrator and pointed out two separate posts on different boards that were flagrantly uncivil and had been up for several days.
It wasn't a case of difficult syntax masking a subtle insult. It didn't require reading 30 posts from 10 different individuals to figure out subtle innuendoes that were cutting or cruel.
In both of these cases, the affected babbler/s did not immediately bring the matter to the deputies' or administrators' attention. I don't know if they ever did. I'm going to speak for them, because for various reasons they did not speak for themselves. I know it's not always appropriate to speak for another, but in this case, I think it's really important. The posters did not want to "tattle" on somebody, even though they felt hurt, or at least surprised, offended or angry.
That's why it's important to have an administrator who is seen as having a different status as a poster. As a poster, I often do not want to suggest that another poster is out of line. I often retreat from conflict. I have remorse about turning in a fellow poster, because they come here in the spirit of giving or receiving support. It seems unfair to expect a set of deputies to take on the task of doing a quick read through all the day's developments. Unless this is done regularly, (ideally daily), there is a terrible danger that something really hurtful may go on for a while and involve many people before it's calmed down and dealt with by someone with authority.
-ll
Posted by Dinah on September 14, 2006, at 14:35:56
In reply to Re: some merging of the two worlds, posted by llrrrpp on September 14, 2006, at 13:21:23
I must confess that I was concentrating more on my selfish personal concerns of wanting to be part of Babble rather than part of Admin. And my personal conviction that, popular majority opinion to the contrary, I'm more of a windmill tilter and gadfly than part of the authoritarian structure.
But I see the concerns of two relative newcomers, about the amount of moderation on the boards.
I certainly don't read every post, except maybe on Admin and usually on Psych. And I suppose I tend to have a hands off style in general. If two people can work it out, or if a poster to poster reminder will do, I'm all for that.
In some respects, Dr. Bob's schedule allowed for some of that. I don't know if posters would actually like hands on moderators who see the board more often than Dr. Bob.
Plus the civility rules aren't actually designed to prevent conflict of any sort, and Dr. Bob's never been inclined to interpret them in such a way as to avoid conflict of any sort. Plenty of conflict can and does go on well within the civility rules. And I'm not talking about sniping either, although that certainly is not unheard of in any assembled group of people. Arguments can be loud and long as long as they stay civil.
Maybe it's just me, but I like that about Babble. :)
I think Dr. Bob's plan is to rely more on poster reporting, which would mean tattling to some people, and people in general seem averse to tattling. You think that's an insufficient method? Do you think the deputies need to start reading all the posts? (ugh)
Posted by llrrrpp on September 14, 2006, at 17:48:24
In reply to Re: some merging of the two worlds, posted by Dinah on September 14, 2006, at 14:35:56
It's about presence, I guess. I started doing psycho-babble around the time of the APA conference.
Dr. Bob was on more at that point. I would see him redirecting posts, and asking for feedback on administrative issues.
I would see his "please be civil" posts sprinkled here and there all over the various boards.
The problem, Dinah, is that some of us (like llrrrpp, on many occasions) don't feel that we are in any position to complain about the state of incivility.
Either we 1) feel guilty, because we must have done something to deserve it, and why should the other poster be blocked. 2) we feel so bad about ourselves, and so down that we just give up. 3) we feel unwelcome, and just give up. 4) we observe incivilities, and end up avoiding certain places or people or babble altogether, because it's just too unpredictable. It claims to be civil, and safe, but only if you're strong enough to have a self-preservation instinct, and/or someone to look out after you.
That someone used to be Dr. Bob, or at least that was my perception. Now, I'm not so sure.
-ll
Posted by Dinah on September 14, 2006, at 18:06:15
In reply to Re: some merging of the two worlds » Dinah, posted by llrrrpp on September 14, 2006, at 17:48:24
Yeah, I feel the same way.
But...
It's not really up to me. If I had my way, things wouldn't change, and Dr. Bob would be active all over the boards forever, only maybe also talk to us sometimes because I enjoy that too. But it's not up to me, and if he's going to spend less time here, he is. We either have to adjust or move elsewhere.
So how best to adjust?
Can you tell I've just come back from therapy? My therapist cut all the shoulds from under me, and left me with only the is's.
Posted by Phillipa on September 14, 2006, at 18:49:27
In reply to Re: some merging of the two worlds » Dinah, posted by llrrrpp on September 14, 2006, at 17:48:24
Now that you mention it I haven't seen a lot of redirects lately on the boards. Sometimes I suggest to a person a different board where they may get more responses. This is definitely not a criticism of the deputies. They do a great job. Love Phillipa
Posted by llrrrpp on September 14, 2006, at 20:58:09
In reply to Re: some merging of the two worlds » llrrrpp, posted by Dinah on September 14, 2006, at 18:06:15
no, it's not up to anyone but Dr. Bob. who owns and operates this site. I'm not sure why he's asking us. It's his life. His time.
I am not much of an adjuster. Not where my mental health might be at stake.
Maybe I've gotten all I need out of Babble. I've met some lovely wonderful souls, and learned a lot about my messed up neurotransmitters (((((NEffy)))) and (((((DopAie))))).
I'd rather not be on this ship if it's sailing without a captain. I'll get off at the next port-of-call, but I'd like some advance warning so that I can pack my trunks.
-ll
Dinah- I've got strong "should"-ers. I didn't realize your T taught you how to use "should"-er blades. I need to learn that art.
Posted by alexandra_k on September 14, 2006, at 21:46:22
In reply to Re: some merging of the two worlds » alexandra_k, posted by Jost on September 14, 2006, at 12:37:46
Hey Jost :-)
> In the following post (a reaction to various excerpts from Bob's prior answers to various posts) you may not realize that other people-- myself anyway--don't know what you mean in many instance.s
Ah. I'm happy to clarify, just ask.
> Maybe you're only talking to Bob?Not at all. I'm always happy to get responses :-)
>and also separated your concerns, so that they were clearer and more integrated and less confused with one another.Sometimes I run things together because I don't have the time to spend editing and revising. Sometimes Babble posts... Can take me half a day to compose. Time constraints etc. I'm happy to clarify anything that you might find ambiguous.
> But your point about "you know what I"m getting at..." confuses the issue, because now I'm thinking-- Alexandra_k thinks Bob deals with A_k's ideas by quibbling with the words she uses, rather than addressing the content of the ideas.What I meant by what I said was that there are often miscommunications. Not just with me, with posters in general. The way you put it was better. I was just a little concerned that Bob may have been overly literal in his interpretation of 'sick of'...
Hope this helps.
Posted by Jost on September 14, 2006, at 22:23:27
In reply to Re: some merging of the two worlds » Jost, posted by alexandra_k on September 14, 2006, at 21:46:22
Thanks, alex_k (if I may be so familiar?).
I will ask more questions, because I'm interested in your view of this.
Thanks for the clarification about the 'sick of" part, because it did distract me.Now I'll have to go back and reread. (First, I have to finish my reading assignment of this article on madness and the internet.....)
I know what you mean about spending time composing posts, though. I do that too.
Jost :)
Posted by alexandra_k on September 14, 2006, at 23:56:56
In reply to Re: some merging of the two worlds » alexandra_k, posted by Jost on September 14, 2006, at 22:23:27
> Thanks, alex_k (if I may be so familiar?).
sure :-)
you can call me alex if you like.
> Thanks for the clarification about the 'sick of" part, because it did distract me.yeah, i understand it wasn't the best choice of phrasing. you put it much better.
> Now I'll have to go back and reread. (First, I have to finish my reading assignment of this article on madness and the internet.....)lol. just if you are interested.
> I know what you mean about spending time composing posts, though. I do that too.yeah.
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 15, 2006, at 11:21:17
In reply to Re: some merging of the two worlds, posted by Dinah on September 14, 2006, at 14:35:56
> the deputies ... work hard without a cent and I feel this is not fair to them.
>
> PhillipaI'm not sure I'd call it unfair to work hard without a cent, that's what volunteering means, OTOH, I've thought about trying to make some cents for them, too...
> > I'm not sick of anyone.
>
> how about moderating in general?
>
> you seem to be doing all you can to foster a 'deputy' 'regular poster' divide.
>
> alexandra_kI'm not sick of moderating in general, either. And I understand that might be a genuine concern -- and isn't necessarily just a transference response. :-)
I'm not trying to foster a deputy vs regular poster divide, but IMO there is in fact a difference, and I don't want to deny that, either.
> > there may be less splitting
>
> Or there'll be the same splitting, but more people on one side of the split. People who came here for support and to be part of something. Not to be separate.
>
> I suggest a replacement benevolent monarch with similar ideas of civility as your own.
>
> Sustainability is the real key, Dr. Bob. Sustainability.
>
> DinahI know it hurts to be attacked, especially when trying to help. I'm sorry that happens, and I appreciate your dedication to this community.
Hmm, maybe the block "multiplier" should be increased for incivility towards deputies?
> Middle way? Dr. Bob, do you want a buddhist monk to be the new adminsitrator? And if there's problems with sustainablity, we deserve to know. It's important to me. I wouldn't mind volunteering to make this project more sustainable, but I woouldn't want to become involved in a way that would compromise my status as post-er and crazy person first and foremost. I don't know how such a thing is possible, or what is needed. Dr. Bob, you shouldn't be shy to ask for help if/when you need it.
>
> llrrrpp> The posters did not want to "tattle" on somebody
>
> That's why it's important to have an administrator who is seen as having a different status as a poster. As a poster, I often do not want to suggest that another poster is out of line. I often retreat from conflict. I have remorse about turning in a fellow poster, because they come here in the spirit of giving or receiving support. ... there is a terrible danger that something really hurtful may go on for a while and involve many people before it's calmed down and dealt with by someone with authority.
>
> llrrrpp> I think Dr. Bob's plan is to rely more on poster reporting, which would mean tattling to some people
>
> DinahA Buddhist monk might make a good benevolent monarch. I'd be interested if any of you know one who's available, but that's not the direction I have in mind right now.
Sustainability is a real issue. For one thing, I'm not going to be around forever. I'd like it if Babble were more self-sufficient, so help along those lines would be great. Volunteers are a key ingredient, but as we've been discussing, being a deputy does entail compromise. Those who aren't deputies can help by supporting and helping out those who are. And of course it keeps the community strong just to keep supporting other posters, too.
One way to help out me and the deputies is in fact to notify us of potential problems. Which I realize may feel like tattling, and could in fact be seen as tattling, and as counter our primary mission of support. So some posters won't feel comfortable doing that. I don't think "status" necessarily makes it easier, the deputies don't relish conflict, either. But I think llrrrpp's example was a good one. We weren't aware of the situation, and other Babblers didn't feel comfortable notifying us, but she felt it was important and took the initiative, and a deputy handled it.
Bob
Posted by llrrrpp on September 15, 2006, at 12:27:39
In reply to Re: some merging of the two worlds, posted by Dr. Bob on September 15, 2006, at 11:21:17
Okay Dr. Bob,
I guess I am kind of dumb. Rather than think about "tattling" as anti-supportive of a possibly un-civil babble-poster, I should think of "notification" as being supportive of the volunteer deputies.This re-framing helps me to justify being part of the community.
However, it would be much appreciated if the rules and such were spelled out clear as day on a page somewhere. I feel insecure to report something (even if it's a private babble-mail to a deputy) if I don't know what the latest rules are.
I know it's one of the big projects you've been procrastinating, Dr. Bob. It can't be as much fun as tinkering with Babble-Chat. But having clear rules (where they can be made clear) is essential to your mission.
Simple things like
Don't post more than three times in a row, unless you are responding to other's posts.
That particular rule is the subject of so much uncertainty that I don't even know what the latest update is.
Thanks again, and thanks for hearing me. I think you did a good job of addressing my concerns.
-ll
Posted by MidnightBlue on September 15, 2006, at 13:22:58
In reply to Re: some merging of the two worlds, posted by Dr. Bob on September 15, 2006, at 11:21:17
Dr. Bob, you said:
> One way to help out me and the deputies is in fact to notify us of potential problems. Which I realize may feel like tattling, and could in fact be seen as tattling, and as counter our primary mission of support. So some posters won't feel comfortable doing that.BUT if you "tattle" on someone three times and you or the other deputies don't consider what that person did is a problem, then YOU are in trouble! Seems like a no win thing to me.
MidnightBlue (who would probably slink away into a dark corner rather than "tattle" and be wrong )
Posted by Toph on September 15, 2006, at 16:05:22
In reply to Re: some merging of the two worlds, posted by Dr. Bob on September 13, 2006, at 10:44:25
> Regarding the community as a whole, if there's more sharing of power, there may be less splitting (seeing administrators as bad and posters as good)...
>As a way of avoiding splitting as you defined it, why not indeed "split" the administrators from their posting personas? The administrators could have different deputy names from their posting names. Perhaps this seems disingenuous and might result in people figuring out the deputy from their posting syles, but if successful in their disguise, deputies might retain their sense of freedom as a poster unsplit and unresented.
Just a thought.Toph
Posted by llrrrpp on September 15, 2006, at 16:12:03
In reply to Re: some merging of the two worlds » Dr. Bob, posted by Toph on September 15, 2006, at 16:05:22
> > Regarding the community as a whole, if there's more sharing of power, there may be less splitting (seeing administrators as bad and posters as good)...
> >
>
> As a way of avoiding splitting as you defined it, why not indeed "split" the administrators from their posting personas? The administrators could have different deputy names from their posting names. Perhaps this seems disingenuous and might result in people figuring out the deputy from their posting syles, but if successful in their disguise, deputies might retain their sense of freedom as a poster unsplit and unresented.
> Just a thought.
>
> TophHi Toph,
i like this idea. it's good. (that was my serious comment)does this mean that we will no longer have any !Snort!-ing deputies? (that was my silly comment)
-ll
Posted by Toph on September 15, 2006, at 16:24:03
In reply to Re: some merging of the two worlds » Dr. Bob, posted by Toph on September 15, 2006, at 16:05:22
Posted by zazenducky on September 15, 2006, at 16:43:05
In reply to Further, all deputies could use the handle, 'Anon' (nm), posted by Toph on September 15, 2006, at 16:24:03
That's a good idea. And use standard language instead of the little variations to different posters.
I think it would be nice to have volunteer peacemakers people could talk to if they didn't agree with the sanction rather than make it all so punitive and us against them. Maybe they could also mediate with the deputies if necessary, but their primary function would be off the board support and education for the banned person.
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