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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 165 to 189 of 275. Go back in thread:
Posted by Dinah on June 5, 2006, at 3:13:38
In reply to Please be civil » teejay, posted by Dinah on June 5, 2006, at 3:02:16
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20060525/msgs/652651.html
Yes, Dr. Bob has been away from the boards for a while, and things tend to escalate, even with deputies present. But until he comes back, I'm going to have to ask everyone to review their posts for compliance with the civility guidelines.
I understand emotions are running high, but please remember that two wrongs don't make a right, that if you perceive something to be uncivil, you can report it by email or Babblemail to the deputies or Dr. Bob, answer civilly yourself, or answer with compassion and kindness above and beyond the call of duty.
And if deputies don't flag something that you think should be flagged, please have patience and wait for Dr. Bob. Sometimes deputies might individually or collectively read things differently than Dr. Bob might. It is undoable. Dr. Bob has the final authority.
The FAQ has several suggestions on what to do when you feel angry.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Dinah, acting as deputy for Dr. Bob
Posted by Damos on June 5, 2006, at 4:58:56
In reply to I have been asked to come here and apologise, posted by NikkiT2 on June 5, 2006, at 0:56:50
Nikki,
I've apologised to you privately and I do so again here. Nothing can excuse or change what was said and it was poorly done and unkind and I am sorry.
It upsets me greatly that you have received nasty and bullying babblemails. I'm sorry you've been subject to that as I know how hard you have tried to help some babblers.
Damos
Posted by Damos on June 5, 2006, at 5:05:30
In reply to Please be civil » Damos, posted by Dinah on June 5, 2006, at 2:58:23
Thanks Dinah,
My behaviour was/is unacceptable to me regardless of contributing factors, motivation or intent. If I cannot trust myself to post I think it's best for all if I just stay away.
Thank you for all you do for the boards. I have so much respect and admiration for you.
Best wishes to all,
Damos
Posted by Sobriquet Style on June 5, 2006, at 7:21:37
In reply to Re: Please be civil » Dinah, posted by Damos on June 5, 2006, at 5:05:30
Sometimes, its visa - versa.
~
Posted by Dinah on June 5, 2006, at 8:03:50
In reply to Re: Please be civil » Dinah, posted by Damos on June 5, 2006, at 5:05:30
It's mutual of course. And everyone has their moments of regret. Take a break if you need to, but I hope to see you when you feel ready.
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 5, 2006, at 8:21:53
In reply to I have been asked to come here and apologise, posted by NikkiT2 on June 5, 2006, at 0:56:50
> But I am sorry.
> I stand by what I said. Yes, some feel I said it wrongly, and I did do wrong to use Estella's name where I should have used my own as an example, but her name was forefront in my mind at the time.
There are innocent explanations for almost anything we might do. Naive innocent explanations. But everyone seems willing to believe the most noxious and malevolent explanation. The first thing one should do is ask, though, don't you think?
> I still believe that my points stand though. And nasty, bullying babble mails will NOT change that. It has just reminded me what a basically nasty place PB can be. And that has NOTHING to do with the rules, but the people.
When I was experiencing the biggest psychological crisis of my entire life, just a few short weeks ago, here, on this board, you would not believe the emails I received. They would shock you. More than mere schadenfreude, I was shocked by other elements in these purportedly helpful messages. Shocked.
I'm sorry our paths have come parallel. In the physical pain that envelopes us, perhaps it limits cognition as well. Senselessness? Sensory burnout?
I'm not seeking excuses.... but to have you go through so many similar confluences, leads me to wonder if there isn't a very human tragic process. If that's the case, Nikki, I can also promise you that it will end. I got through it, Nik. I am truly looking at it from the other side now.
> Oh, and yes.. I am pure evil aren't I? And NO ONEs suicide will ever be on my head, as it is a decision one person makes and no one else.Oh, Nik. Oh dear. So helpful, these people. So very helpful and supportive.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 5, 2006, at 8:34:41
In reply to Re: blocked » agent858, posted by Dinah on June 5, 2006, at 2:48:47
> However, I think you posted some lovely things and I appreciate your trying to promote harmony here. I really do admire you for that.
The status quo does precisely this, every time it is employed. It prevents the very thing that would have solved everything in a simpler gentler fashion.
It prevents civility.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 5, 2006, at 8:37:43
In reply to Re: Please be civil » Dinah, posted by Damos on June 5, 2006, at 5:05:30
> Thanks Dinah,
>
> My behaviour was/is unacceptable to me regardless of contributing factors, motivation or intent. If I cannot trust myself to post I think it's best for all if I just stay away.
>
> Thank you for all you do for the boards. I have so much respect and admiration for you.
>
> Best wishes to all,
> DamosDamos, forgive yourself, please. My world is far better when I can see you in it, than the one where I know you are there, but I can't find you in the crowd.
Hugs,
Lar
Posted by NikkiT2 on June 5, 2006, at 8:45:41
In reply to Re: I have been asked to come here and apologise » NikkiT2, posted by Damos on June 5, 2006, at 4:58:56
Damos,
There is nothing to apologise for.
I read your babble mail before coming to PB, and as such, I decided that your message would probably upset me more than I could handle right now (ie, rushing to get ready for work at stupid o'clock, or sitting in my office at work).. So, I've not actually read it.
I will, this evening, if you would like me to. Or I won't, if you would prefer that.
The call is yours
Nikki
Posted by zazenduck on June 5, 2006, at 9:42:49
In reply to blocked » agent858, posted by agent858 on June 4, 2006, at 23:30:03
I am surprised that Bob would say such a thing. I still find the civility rules confusing.
I believe certain narcissistic traits would hamper the effective moderation of this site..
a lack of empathy,
the inability to see others as separate individuals
the need for absolute control/domination of the relationship
the need for constant admiration
inability to admit mistakes or flaws
a sense of entitlement...the expectation that others should do what he wants because he wants it
I wonder if conflict with administrative needs might be at the root of the unsuitability rather than some personality disorder within the poster.......
hmmmmmm......
well just musing.
>
> i know you say this site isn't suited to everyone...
> and people might have a hard time fitting in
> this place might not be the right place
> but then you go on to say especially people who are
> borderline
> narcissistic
> etc
> sounds like a slur to those who won't accept your ****** state to me.
>
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 5, 2006, at 9:48:50
In reply to please be kind to each other, posted by agent858 on June 4, 2006, at 23:11:32
That's what I see here.
In the face of Bob's silence.
I guess the only question is, will she be martyred for it.
I hope not.
Lar
Posted by zazenduck on June 5, 2006, at 9:59:53
In reply to Re: Civil disobedience » agent858, posted by Larry Hoover on June 5, 2006, at 9:48:50
Posted by Dinah on June 5, 2006, at 11:29:42
In reply to Re: blocked » Dinah, posted by Larry Hoover on June 5, 2006, at 8:34:41
I don't see the not posting while blocked rule as preventing civility. It seems perfectly common sense to me.
Posted by Dinah on June 5, 2006, at 11:33:23
In reply to Re: Civil disobedience » agent858, posted by Larry Hoover on June 5, 2006, at 9:48:50
Or at least not on Admin.
Therefore his silence means nothing other than that he hasn't been on board.
You can be angry with him for not being on board. But it would be pretty hard to respond to something he hasn't yet read.
Posted by Dinah on June 5, 2006, at 11:36:49
In reply to BOB said that?????????????, posted by zazenduck on June 5, 2006, at 9:42:49
I don't recall Dr. Bob saying that. If anyone has links?
Please remember that the civility guidelines apply to Dr. Bob as well, although he is admittedly more lenient in applying them that way.
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 5, 2006, at 11:45:49
In reply to Posting while blocked » Larry Hoover, posted by Dinah on June 5, 2006, at 11:29:42
> I don't see the not posting while blocked rule as preventing civility. It seems perfectly common sense to me.
I'm not making an absolute statement. Sometimes just a little talking out solves the misunderstandings. An innocent naive comment might appear to be something else. No mens rea. No animus nocendi. No criminal intent.By not being able to provide insight into the "accused"'s state of mind, the block prevents a simple civil discussion that might clear everything up.
There are other cases, of course, where animus nocendi is blatant.
Lar
Posted by henrietta on June 5, 2006, at 15:23:35
In reply to Re: Posting while blocked » Dinah, posted by Larry Hoover on June 5, 2006, at 11:45:49
I wonder if a deputy could explain why Nikki wasn't given a PBC. I really am puzzled. This is a sincere question. It seems that the rules
would require either a PBC or a please rephrase, or something. I think it would have defused the situation considerably and helped to foster a sense of consistency and fairness. Can someone explain whatever it is I'm not understanding?I guess the appropriate time may have passed on this one, but if something similar happens again....???
Thank you.
Posted by Dinah on June 5, 2006, at 17:09:43
In reply to Question, posted by henrietta on June 5, 2006, at 15:23:35
Nikki did get a PBC. And the reason I didn't give one earlier is because I thought she was mistaken in her appraisal of her post. To me the post was filled with things she obviously chose because she *didn't* think the world would be better off without them, and were therefore truly hypotheticals. She did not appear to be phrasing things as hypotheticals so she could get away with saying something.
I did put in a request to Dr. Bob for clarification, in case I was wrong. And when he comes to the board, I assume I'll receive guidance for the future.
Posted by Tamar on June 5, 2006, at 18:51:09
In reply to Re: BOB said that????????????? » zazenduck, posted by Dinah on June 5, 2006, at 11:36:49
> I don't recall Dr. Bob saying that. If anyone has links?
>
> Please remember that the civility guidelines apply to Dr. Bob as well, although he is admittedly more lenient in applying them that way.I think agent858 is right. I think there's a link somewhere to a paper or something that Dr Bob has written. I will try to find the link.
Posted by Tamar on June 5, 2006, at 19:23:35
In reply to Re: BOB said that?????????????, posted by Tamar on June 5, 2006, at 18:51:09
Darn; can't find it and haven't got time to look further. I think I read it a few months ago when Deneb posted a link to it. It might have been the "Reaching Out Across Cyberspace" paper, but I can't access it right now to check...
Sorry.
Posted by henrietta on June 5, 2006, at 19:29:34
In reply to Speaking only for myself » henrietta, posted by Dinah on June 5, 2006, at 17:09:43
i am too angry to reply
i give up
Posted by Deneb on June 5, 2006, at 19:47:16
In reply to Re: BOB said that?????????????, posted by Tamar on June 5, 2006, at 19:23:35
"Reading Out Across Cyberspace" is a presentation of Bob's.
There's this paper Dr. Bob wrote, called "The best of both Worlds", but I don't recall there being anything about borderline or narcissistic personality disorders.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/research.html
Dr. Bob, I hope you didn't single out a group of people to say they don't fit in.
Deneb*
Posted by Dinah on June 5, 2006, at 19:52:10
In reply to Re: Speaking only for myself, posted by henrietta on June 5, 2006, at 19:29:34
You asked politely for an explanation of my actions so I answered. I'm sorry my answer made you angry. However, it is the truth, so I must stand by it.
If Dr. Bob disagrees with my assessment, he can do what he thinks is appropriate. Deputy decisions are never final. And risking the ire of all who find it irksome when Dr. Bob says it, I am doing my best, and that's all I can do.
Posted by zazenduck on June 5, 2006, at 19:54:23
In reply to Re: BOB said that????????????? » zazenduck, posted by Dinah on June 5, 2006, at 11:36:49
Good to know.
Apparently his speculations about people being unsuitable for his board because of personality disorders have caused others to feel put down.
Deputy Dinah if you consider that uncivil I urge you to have the moral courage to PBC him. If you consider my list of narcissistic traits uncivil please withdraw my post.
I offered it for purposes of hypothetical alternative explanation only not as an accusation against Bob. I don't know why he does the things he does. I like Bob but I don't like seeing his actions hurt people I care about.
>
> Please remember that the civility guidelines apply to Dr. Bob as well,
Posted by Dinah on June 5, 2006, at 20:05:54
In reply to Civility guidelines apply to DR BOB » Dinah, posted by zazenduck on June 5, 2006, at 19:54:23
But I can't *find* that. Nor do I recall it.
I don't ever recall myself lacking in moral courage enough not to say what I think to Dr. Bob. If I remember correctly, one of my first interactions with Dr. Bob involved threatening to have my mother give him a good talking to. And him replying that that was fine, just to have her please register under her own posting name.
I like Dr. Bob as well. I think I liked him since he made that very polite response to my impassioned post.
And I'm also sad when people feel hurt. I've always suspected that Dr. Bob is as well.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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